Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[atheistgod1999]

Seriously, I looked at the manufacturer's site (Ikegami) and their CRTs are listed just as prominently as the other monitor types. I think they still make them. There's still a CRT manufacturer.

[BazookaBen]

That would be cool, but my guess is that they're still selling new old stock.

And 1080i/720p max is a little disappointing.

[atheistgod1999]

That would be cool, but my guess is that they're still selling new old stock.

And 1080i/720p max is a little disappointing.

Not to mention no Y/C(S-Video) or composite compatibility

[Ed Oscuro]

Seriously, I looked at the manufacturer's site (Ikegami) and their CRTs are listed just as prominently as the other monitor types. I think they still make them. There's still a CRT manufacturer.

I'm glad that you just found this section of the site, but unfortunately, CRT manufacturing is gone.

B&H Photo and Video just is one of the bigger outfits with some units (used? NOS?) advertised at an inflated price, hoping that somebody will buy them...assuming that they actually have something in stock, and this isn't just a leftover sales page. As far as B&H's usual clients go, that market is gone as everybody has moved to IPS and OLED. If they have stock, B&H probably should have firesaled them long ago, else eventually they'll need to recycle them.

Ikegami is also surely not "making" any CRTs. I haven't seen inside one of their monitors but dollars to dimes they weren't ever manufacturing their own CRTs, but probably bought them from Toshiba, Hitachi, etc. Even if they did make their own CRTs, I expect that they'd have to have bought the envelopes from a glass maker, and that kind of production is also long gone.

My simple advice is not to get too worked up about CRTs now. It is very, very easy to sink a lot of space, money, and health into hunting down gigantic CRTs, and without technical knowledge you're probably looking at a fair chance of getting something that doesn't work well, or soon won't. I wouldn't turn down a nice set if you can find it, but I also wouldn't dump tons of money into it. It's just not much of an investment.

On the other hand, there's a lot of developments with scalers and modern displays that are pretty promising, so I'd pay more attention to current tech looking forward.

[cfx]

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[bobrocks95]

That seems more like a to me. Using S-video or especially composite on these monitors is missing the point.

They're priced around $10,000. Not even having the option is just criminal.

[Skips]

People buying those monitors dont give a damn about composite and s-video, they have the money to do an RGB/Component setup. Also Ed you are correct, CRT's are no longer made and like JVC/Panasonic they used tubes made by other companies. Ikegami did not make their own.

[Hoagtech]

Seriously, I looked at the manufacturer's site (Ikegami) and their CRTs are listed just as prominently as the other monitor types. I think they still make them. There's still a CRT manufacturer.

I'm glad that you just found this section of the site, but unfortunately, CRT manufacturing is gone.

B&H Photo and Video just is one of the bigger outfits with some units (used? NOS?) advertised at an inflated price, hoping that somebody will buy them...assuming that they actually have something in stock, and this isn't just a leftover sales page. As far as B&H's usual clients go, that market is gone as everybody has moved to IPS and OLED. If they have stock, B&H probably should have firesaled them long ago, else eventually they'll need to recycle them.

Ikegami is also surely not "making" any CRTs. I haven't seen inside one of their monitors but dollars to dimes they weren't ever manufacturing their own CRTs, but probably bought them from Toshiba, Hitachi, etc. Even if they did make their own CRTs, I expect that they'd have to have bought the envelopes from a glass maker, and that kind of production is also long gone.

My simple advice is not to get too worked up about CRTs now. It is very, very easy to sink a lot of space, money, and health into hunting down gigantic CRTs, and without technical knowledge you're probably looking at a fair chance of getting something that doesn't work well, or soon won't. I wouldn't turn down a nice set if you can find it, but I also wouldn't dump tons of money into it. It's just not much of an investment.

On the other hand, there's a lot of developments with scalers and modern displays that are pretty promising, so I'd pay more attention to current tech looking forward.

CRT's are almost gone "Makvision" still imports CRT's from Shenzen and they are beautiful looking but expensive 600+ You can buy them from arcade suppliers, I would recommend SUZO HAPP as they have the current Distribution license.

[cfx]

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[Hoagtech]

CRT's are almost gone "Makvision" still imports CRT's from Shenzen and they are beautiful looking but expensive 600+ You can buy them from arcade suppliers, I would recommend SUZO HAPP as they have the current Distribution license.

Just to be clear, by "beautiful looking" have you actually seen the picture quality on a Makvision, or is this another Wells-Gardner type assumption? (Because I have seen them.)

Not in person yet, But i saw a video of a guy who replaced his mortal kombat cab with a Makvision and it looked incredible even in the video: ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp0tPh1994c ) those displays are dripping in color (look at Kano vs Sub zero) Notice how blue his costume is and how green the life bar is at the same time ("you could say its the arcade board" but I likes what I seez.) I also saw another Shmup post with a dudes Makvision running "Zelda Link to the Past" and the picture made me jealous.

Just because I Bought a Sony doesn't mean that Wells Gardner 42" Panel wouldn't have the shit. I wish someone else would take that burden from me and put a Leo Bodnar on that thing. Im still buying that tri mode though. Mostly for my dreamcast and the future "Line doubler" as it has native VGA and a max and native resolution of "640 x 480". Whats not to like about it?

Here's another video of both Makvision LCD and their CRT playing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8TeVAEP1II

[FinalBaton]

My simple advice is not to get too worked up about CRTs now. It is very, very easy to sink a lot of space, money, and health into hunting down gigantic CRTs, and without technical knowledge you're probably looking at a fair chance of getting something that doesn't work well, or soon won't. I wouldn't turn down a nice set if you can find it, but I also wouldn't dump tons of money into it. It's just not much of an investment.

On the other hand, there's a lot of developments with scalers and modern displays that are pretty promising, so I'd pay more attention to current tech looking forward.

You bring up very good points regarding upscalers, and all the cool options we have now that do an amazing job. And yes it is certainly more convenient than keeping CRTs around.

But there is another way to look at this (wich won't touch everyone, granted) :
We pretty much are the last generations to be able to game on vintage tubes (anything excluding newly made arcade CRT monitors, I mean). So I understand why people would seize that opportunity. These people (I am one of them) view this as a privilege. think about it : retro gaming will always be there, but people 30 years from now and onward won't ever have the chance to experience gaming on a CRT. So we enjoy it while we still can ^_^
I will soon be the owner of an NEC XM37 Plus and I can tell you that I am damn excited I can barely sleep lol. so stoked!
And personnally, there was no way I could have passed on that opportunity.

I depends on wether or not you are extremely passionate about gaming on a CRT. But let's be honest : the upscaler on flat panel way is the more sensible path. Going that route + buying a small PVM(14") is a good compromise though.

[cfx]

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[Xyga]

I've read a couple of comments on BYOAC saying the Makvision (wei-ya) 27/29 is more reliable than the last monitors WG had to offer (don't remember the refs).
But that's not much information...
Still, I remember back in time (maybe 7~8y ago) on French forums like neo-arcadia people were not very positive about the Wei-Ya tri-sync (apparently the same) saying it's sub-par and overpriced compared to the MS29, especially because of the cheap chassis it comes with.
In my eyes $600 + shipping is too much, but heh, it's not like there any other models available...probably if I lived in the US and had some cash to throw away I'd purchase one as a curiosity/'new-relic', otherwise I'd look for a cheap used broadcast monitor still in decent shape and service it as well as possible, even if it's a difficult job on some models.

[atheistgod1999]

Hypothetically, if I had around a million dollars, could I start an RGB CRT production line? That would be cool. #CRTComeback

[bobrocks95]

Hypothetically, if I had around a million dollars, could I start an RGB CRT production line? That would be cool. #CRTComeback

Multiply that by several hundred probably. Unless there's a line that still exists somewhere and just isn't being used, it's going to take a lot more than $1 million considering how complex the manufacturing process would be.

[cfx]

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[werk91]

Hi everyone!

Iiyama Vision Master Pro 450

I can pick up a Iiyama Vision Master Pro 450 19" CRT very cheaply. It has the Mitsubishi DiamondTron tube I've seen mentioned around here as being really good. Would it be worth it for 20£ in that size ?

[BazookaBen]

I can pick up a Iiyama Vision Master Pro 450 19" CRT very cheaply. It has the Mitsubishi DiamondTron tube I've seen mentioned around here as being really good. Would it be worth it for 20£ in that size ?

Definitely.

I mean, unless it was left on all day every day for part of it's lifetime, then chances are it will still have really good picture. 19" monitors can usually display up to 1600x1200 really well. They can run even higher resolutions but you won't see every pixel because of the dot pitch on the aperture grille. So they're great monitors for basically everything from the Dreamcast forward, including the PS4, XBO.

But PC is the best way to go for modern games since you'll get 4:3 support for a lot of titles. Like Starwars Battlefront, you can play it in a 4:3 ratio on PC, and at whatever resolution your graphics card can muster, but PS4 and XBO are 16:9 only with 900p and 720p resolutions, respectively.

You won't be able to play 240p/480i games on that monitor without a line-doubler though, it's 480p minimum. That's why I say for Dreamcast and newer, it should be a great monitor. I always keep a Sony PVM around for the older stuff.

[Hoagtech]

Hi everyone!

Iiyama Vision Master Pro 450

I can pick up a Iiyama Vision Master Pro 450 19" CRT very cheaply. It has the Mitsubishi DiamondTron tube I've seen mentioned around here as being really good. Would it be worth it for 20£ in that size ?

I'm a sucker for that brand. They sell some of the only monitors with 3 ms input lag outside of g/sync. They don't sell them in the states but they handle our 120 voltage. if you were a competitive gamer it was a must for PC until G-sync came out

[werk91]

Maybe I've found a cheap gem! I'll admit I wasn't planing on using it for PC gaming but with properly set up Mame who knows...
I think Sync Strike and or Gonbes-8200 is what I had in mind for it, with things like PS2 ,Sega Megadrive, Wii VC etc.. Would it be a good display for older games or just for 480p and bigger ?

[BazookaBen]

Maybe I've found a cheap gem! I'll admit I wasn't planing on using it for PC gaming but with properly set up Mame who knows...
I think Sync Strike and or Gonbes-8200 is what I had in mind for it, with things like PS2 ,Sega Megadrive, Wii VC etc.. Would it be a good display for older games or just for 480p and bigger ?

For PS2 games that support 480p, you can hook up directly to your monitor with a component cables and the PS2 set to RGB mode (sync will be on green). Using the homebrew GS Mode Selector you can force and even larger selection of games to 480p. For OG Xbox and Gamecube, I use a component to VGA converter. 0 input lag and great picture.

Xbox 360 and Dreamcast natively have VGA out, but with PS3 and Wii U you either have to go component to VGA or HDMI to VGA. On PS3 HMDI to VGA definitely gives better overall picture quality for some reason, probably an inadequate component output.

And PC CRT's are good for old games, I've played Wii VC games on it in 480p and they look very sharp. You don't have that built in to the older consoles, so you'll have to use a line doubler, which I've never tried. I'm thinking about trying the DIY line-doubler sometime since it reportedly has very low lag.

Let us know how you like it once it is up and running.

[cfx]

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[bobrocks95]

Assuming this monitor supports sync-on-green. I'm not sure many PC CRT monitors did? Ones I owned didn't anyway.

The lettering beneath the inputs says "G/Sync" which would confirm it'll do sync-on-green

[BazookaBen]

In my experience, most Diamondtrons and (obviously) Trinitrons support SoG. Didn't even notice it said it right beside the Green BNC jack. A lot of Samsungs support it too. There is a database somewhere online with a lot of compatible models listed.

EDIT: yep, here you go

http://ps-2.kev009.com/sog/

[DatPhosphorGlow]

My BVM D14 is acting odd. I have the analog input card in it and my PS2 hooked up via component. When the PS2 is displaying an image from a DVD video it displays fine, but when exiting to the PS2 menu or inserting a game the image does not work.

Since my 9" BVM and 5" PVM are doing the exact same thing I'm sure this is a setting issue, but I can't seem to figure it out.

I have been trying to test it to make sure it functions with RGB (with no luck so far) so I decided to test it with component first since I have other TVs that can take that signal to isolate the problem.

[BazookaBen]

My guess is that you have progressive scan enabled for DVD playback and RGB set for the colorspace. So when you're watching a DVD, you PS2 runs RGsB (sync on green), since it is in 480p mode. When you go back to 480i mode in the menus, it's running in RGBS (separate sync). Weird design choice by Sony, but you can deal with it by selecting "external sync" in your BVM menu when looking at 15hz signals, or just use component YPbPr all the time which would be way easier.

[DatPhosphorGlow]

When I try to hook up a PSX I get the same problem though. I ended up using the PS2 because I thought that MAYBE both PSXs I was using were bad.

Based on what you said I tried splitting the green signal with a Y connector and inputting it into both green and sync, and flipping the int/ext sync switch on the back of my 9" BVM and 5" PVM, and tried to change the external sync setting on the 14" BVM. They all still do the same thing. I actually am not able to


Also, when I try to hook up my computer to the BVM D14 I get an image(via a VGA to RGBHV cable and a T connector to combine the HV signals into 1 sync signal) but the screen just keeps turning "on and off" every few seconds, the intervals vary based on the resolution I pick.

[Einzelherz]

I was only able to get my PS2 slim to function on RGB using external sync. I used a guncon breakout box and sent composite to the sync port.

[Nogame]

PS2 sync on green must not work. Maybe with SCART, but component connections did not work on my Sony or JVC monitor, especially with 480i. 480P may work from what I've read, if the sync on green signal is good enough.

[Fudoh]

PS2 sync on green must not work. Maybe with SCART, but component connections did not work on my Sony or JVC monitor, especially with 480i.

in 15khz mode the PS2 does output RGBs, not RGsB. Only with 480p you get Sync on Green.