My Hardware Journey So Far: A Formal Introduction

[RetroGame❤]

If we're to say "game with what you like", then we have to respect people who like high-end broadcast monitors too.

That's what I meant. BVM gaming is definitely eye candy, and only a limited number of people will ever be fortunate enough to experience it. And while it's perfectly fine for folks out there to prefer it over anything else, it's just not a reasonable claim that the games were designed to be played on one...

[tacoguy64]

Would arcade monitors be closer to what you are describing?

Yup. This is basically what European consumer scart rgb crt tv's were, except for the I/O electronics properties and the absence of true multisync models.

Not so long ago someone made a comment about his first time playing on a japanese candy cab sporting your usual Toshiba/Nanao, IIRC he found the picture too 'soft' because he was already used to Sony PVM or even BVM (I can't find the post) before even actually experiencing the 'real deal'.

But this is what I usually mean to people linving in the Americas: the high-end broadcast monitors you're hunting/playing on can sametimes be quite diffrent from arcade's or euro rgb consumer sets, they're indeed technically superior displays but I'm always having a hard time explaining why I wouldn't call those the 'genuine' stuff.
I'm okay with some PVM's I've seen at people's places, but some BVM's are too extreme for me, too far from what I've been used to play on most of my 'gamer's life' (the rgb crt experience for me started in the arcades during the 80's, then from around 1990 with consoles).

Aww man, thats not good. I was planning for one day to own a couple of candy cabs of my own but I might have ruined the experience by being exposed to a BVM. I mean I was regularly playing arcade games during the 90's as well but after that I mostly stopped. And whenever I would play an arcade again I usually didn't have a good experience (when it came to the display) because the monitors weren't in tip top condition for the most part.

And I think most people here in the states don't even bother with rgb gaming in the first place. I mean the retro market despite being popular at the moment is still pretty niche. And the percentage of people going the rgb route to play games makes an even smaller number. So I imagine most people got a flatscreen tv, and hook up their systems using component and call it good. Those more into it get crt's and hook up using component or even composite. And finally there are us that go the rgb route.

[kamiboy]

The post being referred to was mine. Though I would say the reason why I found the picture to look "softer" than I was expecting prolly has more to do with the Nanao monitor in the cabinet being a shadow mask, rather than a grille display.

I actually do not like the look of high end multisync BVM's for gaming. The image is too harsh with a very wide gap between scan lines.

I currently do most of my gaming on a B&O TV which sports a very "soft" shadow mask picture, with hardly any visible gap between scan lines. That is a look completely different from a SONY PVM/BVM, but I still find it pleasing.

That being said, I do prefer the look of SONY's grill displays. Whether on a consumer set or in a pro monitor grille just look sharper to my eyes, but that is a matter of taste.

The best image quality I've ever seen was from an early 90's 2530 PVM, which came down to it being a really good simple grille display. Not as harsh as the latter PVM's with too many TTL's. I think it was more akin to a really good consumer TV than anything on the high end pro line.

For some reason, before seeing a candy cab in person, I had this idea that they used grille CRT's, so I was expecting it to look like that old 90's SONY. But since it turned out to be a really good shadow mask display it, to my eyes, looked much closer to the B&O I am currently gaming on, only slightly better, but still with that characteristic shadow mask softness.

[cfx]

.

[kamiboy]

It is a shame that SONY was not a supplier of arcade monitors. I'd love to see what a 29" grille would look like in a candy cab.

[Xyga]

It is a shame that SONY was not a supplier of arcade monitors. I'd love to see what a 29" grille would look like in a candy cab.

Absolutely fantastic: http://saturn.netboarder.com/t9894-ma-2 ... blast-city

[kamiboy]

Those absolute madmen!

Would love to see the result of that forbidden fusion in person.

[werk91]

That's really interesting. I've heard other people have problem with that cable and PS2 before. I wonder if a GBS-8200/8220 scaler will sync with a PS2 and the cable.. The scaler does accept 15Khz technically Any idea if this cable outputs a pure sync signal ? If I can find one cheap I might just get it to try although I doubt I'll get much improvement over my current RGB Scart setup with SyncStrike. (Which I am quite happy with currently)

My Wii has been in its box for a while now but I've been thinking about trying out some VC titles with the Gonbes and SyncStrike. I remember having a lot of issues with some VC games and the Wii2HDMI dongle thingie before.

Here are some screenshots of the $15 Hyperkin Wii to VGA Cable (YPbPr to VGA transcoder) connected to the 22" NEC MultiSync FE1250+, running a few Virtual Console games. Please note that these are all 240p titles that are being scaled to 480p by the Wii's internal scaler (And the Wii has to be in 480p mode for a 31Khz display to sync to this cable directly. That means that, while they look pretty sharp, they would look even better if I ran them into a 15Khz monitor or a VGA line doubler (neither of which I have at the moment). Also, I took these pics with my cell phone, so... yeah... My cell phone can't quite see the way my eyes can...

(The scanlines that appear in a few of the images are simply 31Khz scanlines from displaying a 480p image on a large CRT. I've not had any success using an SLG, most likely due to the reason Crafty+Mech cited above. However, I imagine the SLG would work fine using this cable with an XRGB unit...).....

Those lines look surprisingly sharp! I wonder how good the Gonbes scaler will make the picture on a LCD. I guess I will post some photos when I get the cable and try. Will this only work with 480p titles ? (I know that not all VC games on the Wii support that hence probably why I had problems with some and the Wii2HDMI..). I hope that my PAL Wii doesn't make it more complicated too. I know its advertised for PS3 but since its mainly changing component signals to VGA I don't see why it wouldn't work with the PS2 too. Excited to try it now

[RetroGame❤]

Those lines look surprisingly sharp! I wonder how good the Gonbes scaler will make the picture on a LCD. I guess I will post some photos when I get the cable and try.

Yeah, I couldn't tell you cause I don't have a GBS-8220 (I've never even used one), but I'd be interested to see your screenshots...

I know that not all VC games on the Wii support that hence probably why I had problems with some and the Wii2HDMI..). I hope that my PAL Wii doesn't make it more complicated too.

So here's the deal. To the best of my knowledge (having played/tested several Virtual Console games from each emulated console), the NEO GEO library are the only titles that run in 240p/480i ONLY. (The Wii WILL NOT display Neo Geo games in 480p.) Aside from this, there are a small handful of Wii disc titles that are 480i (and will revert to 480i when booted even when the Wii is in 480p mode). However, these can be forced to run in 480p by booting them through USB Loader GX with the "Force 480p" mode enabled. Additionally, Game Cube games can also be ripped to and booted from the same hard drive, and those that don't have native support for 480p can also be forced into 480p in the same manner. This is how I avoided spending $$$ on GC component cables...

Will this only work with 480p titles?

YES & NO, depending on your setup... Here are your options:

1. Wii > Cable > 31Khz Monitor = 480p ONLY (Set Wii to 480p mode, Wii scales 240p titles internally to 480p with the slightest softness, NO Neo Geo compatibility )

2. Wii > Cable > 15Khz Monitor = 240p/480i (Set Wii to 480i mode, Switch to 240p using in-game combo:http://retrorgb.com/wiivsclassic.html, Wii stores your preference, Yay, Neo Geo games! )

3. Wii > Cable > Line Doubler > 31Khz Monitor = 240p/480i/480p (Set Wii to 480i mode for VC games & 480p mode for WiiWare/Disc Titles. )

I know its advertised for PS3 but since its mainly changing component signals to VGA I don't see why it wouldn't work with the PS2 too. Excited to try it now

First off, you're right. It should work with the PS2 just fine... There's no difference in the component pinout between PS2/PS3, so why the trouble then? Well, I think I may have just figured it out... For example, with my NEC CRT in standby mode, I power on the Wii, the NEC wakes up out of standby, and we're up and running! However, while the Wii is on and the NEC is displaying an image, if I briefly disconnect the cable from the back of the Wii and plug it back in, I get nothing but black (with audio going in the background). Mind you, the NEC stays "awake" (not in standby) as if it knows there's something there, but it does not display an image. THEN, if I hit the power button, rebooting the Wii, the image comes right back...

Now, am I crazy or does this sound like some kind of initialization or "handshake" type situation that you would see with HDMI..?
Because regardless of what I've tried, the cable only works on a fresh boot, and I've also tested with my Dell Trinitron as well...
Anyway, the reason this might be a problem for the PS2, is because the PS2 boots in 480i, which a 31Khz monitor can't handle in the first place.
I'm not able to boot the PS2 into 480p from a fresh startup, so maybe it's acting like it's unplugged? I don't know. Anyway, when it switches over to 480p, again same as with the Wii, all I get is black screen, even though the monitor is "awake" from standby and trying to receive signal...
This is just a theory. I do have a shadow mask monitor in the closet that I might test it on (just to see if it's the monitor and not the cable).

[werk91]

I will post some screenshots but not sure when as I'm not rushing too much for the cable. Since I might be getting a CRT monitor soon I think I will definitely be buying it though !

I guess currently I can use it with my Gonbes as a line doubler this way : "3. Wii > Cable > Line Doubler > 31Khz Monitor = 240p/480i/480p."

Good point about the PS2, my expectations about it will remain low as it might not work at all it seems. Do say if you try the second shadow mask monitor though.

[RetroGame❤]

I guess currently I can use it with my Gonbes as a line doubler this way : "3. Wii > Cable > Line Doubler > 31Khz Monitor = 240p/480i/480p."

It's occurred to me that it would be pointless for you to use this cable with the Gonbes seeing as the Gonbes accepts component input and you could just use the Wii component cables. The benefit of using this cable in the first place is that it's the closest thing to a direct connection to a 31Khz PC CRT monitor. I would only recommend using it with a line doubler that doesn't have component input...

Good point about the PS2, my expectations about it will remain low as it might not work at all it seems. Do say if you try the second shadow mask monitor though.

Tested the cable with PS2 and the 17" Dell shadow mask CRT, and while it actually did pick up the signal, it was not a proper sync, and image was was so dark and distorted that it was absolutely unplayable. Also mind, that was with Outrun 2 SP in 480p... With other 480p titles (GOW2, Burnout 3, etc...) I got nothing but black screen. Switched back to the Wii's 480p output, and it worked like a charm on all 3 monitors... I think it's VERY safe to say that, by itself, it does NOT work with PS2. Then again, you could use it with a line doubler, which would look great for the 240p games, but if your line doubler has component input (like the Gonbes) then you're better off just using the component cables or RGB Scart for that matter...

In summary, I took a gamble on this cable because I wanted to see what the Wii looked like going straight into a 31Khz CRT, allowing the pure signal itself and the CRT to determine color and contrast, and avoid any possible electrical interference that might result from a powered transcoder... For this, I haven't been disappointed. Having tested the Wii through DVDO Edge and HD Box Pro (which both look great) this cable still provides the cleanest & sharpest (and direct) connection to a 31Khz CRT monitor.

[Fudoh]

You're sure that your PS2 was set to component output ?

It's unusual that a transcoder (internal IC or external) would work with one system, but not with another. All the transcoders I have (or A/D converters for that matter) play very well with all equipment that does output 480p component.

[Nug]

Can you post an in game pic of your NEC multisync with the mini slg?
I'm curious as I also have a multisync, but IMO doesn't look good when I use my slg 3000

Very nice! I may have to try this again. I have a NEC multisync fp2141sb, which is very similar to yours.

When I used the slg3000, it didn't seem to work properly

[werk91]

I guess currently I can use it with my Gonbes as a line doubler this way : "3. Wii > Cable > Line Doubler > 31Khz Monitor = 240p/480i/480p."

It's occurred to me that it would be pointless for you to use this cable with the Gonbes seeing as the Gonbes accepts component input and you could just use the Wii component cables. The benefit of using this cable in the first place is that it's the closest thing to a direct connection to a 31Khz PC CRT monitor. I would only recommend using it with a line doubler that doesn't have component input...

The component in on the Gonbes is by far not the best looking thing.. RGB in + Sync Strike is many many levels better. This cable gives out RGBHV (which Gonbes accepts through the VGA in) which is even better than the output I use from the Sync Strike (RGBS I believe) so I'm expecting better results than component directly in Gonbes ( possibly even better than RGB Scart in ) + also 480p support. Correct if I am wrong on this please..

[RetroGame❤]

You're sure that your PS2 was set to component output ?

Yes, of course. The only times I've ever even had the PS2 set to RGB are a few rare occasions when I was testing it with the Waka... But it always set to component as it's going through the HD Box Pro.

It's unusual that a transcoder (internal IC or external) would work with one system, but not with another. All the transcoders I have (or A/D converters for that matter) play very well with all equipment that does output 480p component.

Yes. It's precisely this logic that inspired me to try it in the first place.., because it should work... Perhaps the PS2's sync output is not strong enough? I don't really know, but I've tested it with multiple games on multiple monitors I've concluded it doesn't work by itself. Sure, you can chain it to any number of devices that might help it out, but

by itself a direct connection does not appear to work. Can't say I'm surprised as I've seen some listings for the cable with a warning that it does not work with PS2...

[RetroGame❤]

So here's the deal. To the best of my knowledge (having played/tested several Virtual Console games from each emulated console), the NEO GEO library are the only titles that run in 240p/480i ONLY. (The Wii WILL NOT display Neo Geo games in 480p.) Aside from this, there are a small handful of Wii disc titles that are 480i (and will revert to 480i when booted even when the Wii is in 480p mode). However, these can be forced to run in 480p by booting them through USB Loader GX with the "Force 480p" mode enabled. Additionally, Game Cube games can also be ripped to and booted from the same hard drive, and those that don't have native support for 480p can also be forced into 480p in the same manner. This is how I avoided spending $$$ on GC component cables...

I've made a new discovery that means I must eat my own words to some extent... It turns out that there IS actually a way to force Neo Geo Virtual Console titles to display in 480p on the Wii. It has to be done through USB Loader GX (same as 480i disc based games). Neo Geo titles (or any VC/WiiWare titles for that matter) that are on the main system memory (not SD card due to encryption) can be loaded in USB Loader GX, which allows the use of the force 480p option. You can also install titles to an emulated nand dump (emuNAND) and load them from there too!

So yeah, the Wii to VGA transcoder cable even works for Neo Geo games, which means I've not found any games that it does not work with. With this cable, Game Cube games in 480p come EXTREMELY close to the sharpness of the Dreamcast's VGA output on a CRT monitor!