[Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

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TheBearded1
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[Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by TheBearded1 »

This is my review of the Helder SNES Multi-Out A/V port. The item is available for sale @ http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/f-s ... ket.50494/

I have no affiliation with Helder or assemblergames and paid full price for the product.

I use the XRGB-Mini but bypass the Mini for audio to avoid an extra a/d conversion and use analog audio straight to my AVR. This means every console cable I purchase needs audio breakout, or I would have to make or purchase a JP21 and EuroSCART audio breakout box, or I would have to modify my XRGB-Mini to add an analog audio passthrough (something I think was quite an oversight in the design of this product).

To reduce cabling complexity and cost I decided to add a Nintendo multi-out port to my genesis 3. The Nintendo multi-out port is great for analog audio and video: it supports s-video(chroma/luma), composite video, RGB, csync/pure sync/composite sync, 5v power, and stereo audio all in one port. There are many high quality RGB cables manufactured for it, including the custom made JP21 w/ stereo rca breakout cable I own. There are not as many cabling options for the genesis port. There is a csync pin on the Sega Genesis, but many folks including myself have not seen a stable csync signal actually output from it (probably depends highly on your model, revision, and luck).

Anyways, to the helder port. I had a problem with my initial shipment: I purchased multiple products but only received one. I notified helder and in less than 24 hours my SNES port was shipped out again. Great customer service.

The port is a nasty white color and obviously 3d printed. There apparently used to be a black version for sale which would look a lot nicer, especially in a sega genesis, but for some reason this doesn't seem to be for sale anymore.

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The pinout matches that you may be used to from modding N64 systems etc., but is inverted because this time you are looking at the port from the top, not the bottom. Here is the pinout by helder which I followed:

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Making room for the port required just a little bit of grinding inside my Genesis 3 case, which is tiny without much room. I imagine adding this port to most game consoles would be a piece of cake. The port offers two screw holes for mounting, but I found that blobs of hot glue held the port in just fine and made for a nicer finish on the outside of my case.

I recommend this mod to those looking to simplify their cable story, looking to add s-video to a system not designed for it (such as the genesis av port), or those looking to modernize an older system like an NES or Atari 2600 without wanting to go full HDMI or mess with individual RCA ports. Clearly this is not an adventure for purists, those still suffering from PTSD regarding the great Sega-Nintendo war of the 90's, or those that think taking a Dremel and soldering iron to a perfectly working classic console is heresy.

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leonk
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by leonk »

:shock:

... am I the only one that thinks that a Nintendo proprietary port does not belong on anything made by Sega?

I've installed many of these ports for customers, and after the cost of the port + shipping to Canada it almost cost the same as a new SCART RGB cable. And given that Model 1 & 2 already supported RGB natively, if you're really into modding a model 3 for RGB, I think the most "accurate" thing to do is install a 9 pin mini-DIN that follows the model 2 genesis pinout.
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RGB32E
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by RGB32E »

Helder sells quite a few cool things!

Some feedback to you:
1. High quality Genesis cables can be built
2. Adding the THS bypass is unnecessary - Cut the SC trace from the VDP if you have a JB issue. Adding a whole separate video buffer circuit is overkill. :(
3. Since the G3 has proper luma output, you can use that as sync.
4. You can resolve sync issues by adding a 100uF cap on the CSYNC output instead of adding a whole LM1881 circuit. LM1881 is primarily useful when TTL level sync is a requirement.
leonk wrote::shock:

... am I the only one that thinks that a Nintendo proprietary port does not belong on anything made by Sega?
Nor does slapping a 9 MDIN jack on things that aren't Sega! People come up with all sorts of "interesting" solutions to problems that don't really exist. :mrgreen: :wink:
leonk
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by leonk »

RGB32E wrote: Nor does slapping a 9 MDIN jack on things that aren't Sega! People come up with all sorts of "interesting" solutions to problems that don't really exist. :mrgreen: :wink:
I disagree with this statement. By definition, DIN or mini-DIN is a standard. Sega doesn't own it. How the 9 pins in mini din configuration were wired might be proprietary to Sega. The connector itself is as standard as an "RCA" / composite port.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector
TheBearded1
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by TheBearded1 »

leonk wrote::shock: ... am I the only one that thinks that a Nintendo proprietary port does not belong on anything made by Sega?
Doubtful. I'm sure most would agree with you, and I don't have a firm argument against this stance. It's just a matter of taste, and I think you take the majority stance here. That said the fact is I'm never going to sell this thing and I don't consider it a collector's item; which means I can perform whatever sacrilegious acts I please upon it.

You'd better believe that when I get my hands on a multimega it won't be seeing any such treatment!
TheBearded1
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by TheBearded1 »

RGB32E wrote:Helder sells quite a few cool things!

Some feedback to you:
1. High quality Genesis cables can be built
True, but it is just another cable for me to keep out on my crowded and small AV setup in my tiny apartment.
RGB32E wrote: 2. Adding the THS bypass is unnecessary - Cut the SC trace from the VDP if you have a JB issue. Adding a whole separate video buffer circuit is overkill. :(
3. Since the G3 has proper luma output, you can use that as sync.
4. You can resolve sync issues by adding a 100uF cap on the CSYNC output instead of adding a whole LM1881 circuit. LM1881 is primarily useful when TTL level sync is a requirement.
I tried CSYNC from the CXA1645, sync on luma, sync on composite, sync from the 9-pin mini din: Nothing worked. My XRGB Mini wasn't even able to display plain old composite video from this Genesis. For more on this saga see http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55498
TheBearded1
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by TheBearded1 »

RGB32E wrote:2. Adding the THS bypass is unnecessary - Cut the SC trace from the VDP if you have a JB issue. Adding a whole separate video buffer circuit is overkill. :(


Just getting this. I didn't bypass any RGB amp in the Genesis 3. The red board you see is the stereo audio amp. The RGB comes straight from the motherboard on the Genesis.
TheBearded1
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by TheBearded1 »

leonk wrote:
RGB32E wrote: Nor does slapping a 9 MDIN jack on things that aren't Sega! People come up with all sorts of "interesting" solutions to problems that don't really exist. :mrgreen: :wink:
I disagree with this statement. By definition, DIN or mini-DIN is a standard. Sega doesn't own it. How the 9 pins in mini din configuration were wired might be proprietary to Sega. The connector itself is as standard as an "RCA" / composite port.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector
I think you are both right: mini-DIN is a very uninteresting standard at the consumer level. It reduces costs to manufacturers and is interesting to them since they do not have to invent a new PHY connector specification, but because the pins have no specific meaning and there are so many different pin configurations possible the reality is that every use case for mini-din ends up being manufacturer specific.

Case in point: I'm pretty sure my soldering iron connects to its base with the same DIN connector as some old school keyboards: talk about consumer confusion. Those that are not tech savvy might think that these should all do the same thing because they are all the same shape & size. I'm not saying this is bad for consumers, just uninteresting.
TheBearded1
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by TheBearded1 »

RGB32E wrote:Nor does slapping a 9 MDIN jack on things that aren't Sega! People come up with all sorts of "interesting" solutions to problems that don't really exist. :mrgreen: :wink:
I'll admit that this is a bit of an experiment and there are more straightforward ways to get clean RGBs out of a Genesis 3.
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RGB32E
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by RGB32E »

TheBearded1 wrote:I tried CSYNC from the CXA1645, sync on luma, sync on composite, sync from the 9-pin mini din: Nothing worked. My XRGB Mini wasn't even able to display plain old composite video from this Genesis. For more on this saga see http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55498
I guess one or more things went wrong unfortunately, as my G3 works excellent on my mini! :shock: It does require a 100uF series cap on the CSYNC line though.
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Hoagtech
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by Hoagtech »

All I just learned was how to "y" off the the 12v and put in a 5v resister on the 12v and then pull "ground" off pin 5 to be able to power my 5v CSY 2100 inline from my Supernintendo scart cable.

One step closer to 50 Grand. I just need to start a kickstarter 8)
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TheBearded1
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by TheBearded1 »

Hoagtech wrote:All I just learned was how to "y" off the the 12v and put in a 5v resister on the 12v and then pull "ground" off pin 5 to be able to power my 5v CSY 2100 inline from my Supernintendo scart cable.

One step closer to 50 Grand. I just need to start a kickstarter 8)
12v is only supplied on pin 3 from PAL units. Other units will supply either csync or this pin will be disconnected, such as in the N64. This is actually a point where folks can get into trouble: plugging a US/JP CSYNC cable into a PAL unit will feed 12v into the circuit on your TV or upscaler which was designed to take ~300mv. If there is a design flaw on the nintendo multi-out this is it.
Spacemonkey
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by Spacemonkey »

Am I the only one that has problems with these multi outs?
Could I have been sent a bad one?

I had one sent to me to install in a NES.

I tried official composite cables and they were difficult to insert/remove.
Tried an official Super Famicom RGB cable and it was nearly impossible to insert/remove.
3rd party cables seem to be fine, looks like the PCB is way thicker on these than the original multi outs.
BONKERS
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by BONKERS »

Cool mod. I feel much the same as you do when it comes to audio and I very much like the Multi-AV. Looks good here minus the ugly ass white.
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BuckoA51
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by BuckoA51 »

Adding the THS bypass is unnecessary - Cut the SC trace from the VDP if you have a JB issue. Adding a whole separate video buffer circuit is overkill. :(
I cut this on my Mark 1 MD and still get jailbars, more in grey colours than blue now though. I should have a RGB Bypass amp installed soon to see if it really can 100% fix the problem.
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
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Hoagtech
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by Hoagtech »

I like the ugly white. It's brings attention to the customization.

I have the same one I my Nes Rgb top loader actually. I will admit it blends better with the off white but I would pay good money to have your genesis 3 with The Nintendo port
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TheBearded1
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by TheBearded1 »

Spacemonkey wrote:Am I the only one that has problems with these multi outs?
Could I have been sent a bad one?

I had one sent to me to install in a NES.

I tried official composite cables and they were difficult to insert/remove.
Tried an official Super Famicom RGB cable and it was nearly impossible to insert/remove.
3rd party cables seem to be fine, looks like the PCB is way thicker on these than the original multi outs.
I have no problems with official or aftermarket cables. I'd bet if you contact helder he would send you a replacement. Being a 3d printed part it's not unlikely to have a run go too thick depending on calibration issues.
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Guspaz
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by Guspaz »

Isn't the stock AV port's PCB ever so slightly chamfered? If the Helder ports are not, it could make inserting the cable slightly more difficult.
TheBearded1
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by TheBearded1 »

Guspaz wrote:Isn't the stock AV port's PCB ever so slightly chamfered? If the Helder ports are not, it could make inserting the cable slightly more difficult.
For retention clips he is using plastic prongs made during the 3d printing. I noticed these took a few insertions to loosen up. These could be part of the problem he is having.
Helder
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Re: [Review] Helder SNES Multi-out A/V Port: Two Thumbs Up

Post by Helder »

I have noticed that some OEM cables are real tight and I don't think it's the PCB but the socket slot. if it's really tight you can try using a little brush to clean any excess powder from the 3D Print (this isn't made with some RepRap printer but with an industrial SLS Printer), you can also use some light soapy water to clean them as it's safe. The PCB can be chamfered slightly with a file but if there is too much complaints about PCB thickness I can order a narrower PCB. I also sell after market connectors to make your own cables and these work 100% with the sockets as well as fit fine.

For anyone who want to color their sockets I use Dupli-Color Charcoal Gray Vinyl Spray Dye, many places like Autozone carry these and you can color the sockets *black*. These sockets are actually a nylon plastic and therefore absorb the color dye really well but the color options aren't the greatest.
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