XRGB-2 Plus Corrupted Menu/Firmware?

[RetroGame❤]

Has anyone ever heard of an XRGB-2 Plus having a "corrupted" menu or firmware, where it displays garbled nonsense characters?
A seller has listed a unit with this description, and yet he claims that it processes the image "just fine".
Are garbled or garbage OSD characters a result of frying the board with a Euro-Scart connector?
Or is this some kind of known issue with the XRGB-2 Plus?

[Xyga]

Heavy noise and distortion on the Menu are possible, but to the point of showing garbled nonsense ? I wouldn't think so...

[RetroGame❤]

Heavy noise and distortion on the Menu are possible, but to the point of showing garbled nonsense ? I wouldn't think so...

So what do you make of this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XRGB-2-Plus-Vid ... SwhcJWNUbh

[cfx]

.

[Xyga]

Of course you could always ask the seller to provide a picture of the 'garbled characters menu', but helpful sellers are kind of rare on eBay, here he's selling 'as is for parts' so e probably doesn't care.
As cfx just said he may be exaggerating because he doesn't know about the potential menu noise/distortion.
Anyway the XRGB2+ is a great machine with great picture quality really, but be warned: it is the one Micomsoft machine with the most image stability issues.

[philexile]

I was in touch with the seller about this too. I was tempted to pick it up to fix it. He was pretty clear that the menu items are unreadable. It isn't that sort of on-screen menu shakiness.

I almost grabbed it, but realized after shipping/etc it would be about $100 – and likely be annoying to use due to the menu issues. Also, the DIY scaler is right around the corner and will better than this device in most regards.

If you are looking for a good, cheap RGB scaler, I'd recommend keeping your eyes pealed for an XRGB-1. If you use this with an SLG it looks great and has nominal lag. I played around with both the XRGB Mini, XRGB-2, and XRGB-1 and for me the original was the best and my favorite – simple to use and plug and play for the most part. The Mini looked sharper, but the lag along with my TV's lag annoyed me.

That all said, I'll be in line for the DIY scaler.

[RetroGame❤]

Also, the DIY scaler is right around the corner

Any idea of the ETA on this? I checked the thread, but didn't see a timeline...
Perhaps I just didn't dig deep enough? Anyway, what does around the corner work out to, roughly?

[RetroGame❤]

If you are looking for a good, cheap RGB scaler, I'd recommend keeping your eyes pealed for an XRGB-1.

Well, there's one up on Yahoo Auctions right now, but at $289.00 USD, it's a little pricey...
http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/a ... n118368847

[philexile]

That is bonkers. I just sold one for $100. They shouldn't cost more than that. You should post a wanted ad in the Trading Station. I'm sure someone here is looking to offload one.

The only possible issue could be syncing with your display. What will you be using it with?

I think the DIY scaler is due out at the end of this year or the beginning of next?

Good luck!

[Skips]

Do not buy that XRGB-2 it has serious issues. I had bought that one from him when he was charging full price for it. It has some major issues. The text in the menu's has pixels jumping all over the place as does the games. The wiggle issue the XRGB-2 units have is also 200x worse on that specific unit. There is some serious shit wrong with it and I can assure you it does not work correctly. I am the other buyer he is talking about. Avoid it like the plague.

[Xyga]

^ you forgot the 'plus'.
The XRGB-2 (non-plus) is an almost entirely different machine.

[RetroGame❤]

The XRGB-2 (non-plus) is an almost entirely different machine.

Hey Xyga & philexile,
Would either of you mind giving a brief rundown of the XRGB-1 vs XRGB-2? (differences, build quality, your lasting impressions, etc...)?

[Xyga]

I can't speak for the XRGB-1 as I've never owned nor tried one myself.
Just note that there's a revision identifiable by the little white swith on the back, the latter seems to be more compatible with usually difficult arcade hardwares.
(there's a thread somewhere)

XRGB-2
Quite the competent linedoubler with enough settings/features to get most sources to display without distortion or obnoxious trembling (if you know how to use it).
Quality/clarity: softer and not as clean as the XRGB3, still quite superior to any cheap chinese scaler, and even a bit superior to faroudja/dvdo machines at their best.
Output fixed at 720x480p, which means depending on the source some actual graphics lines can be left out to fit.
No component input, good only for scart/jp21 RGB period.
Flaky annoying power switch.
480i looks either flickery like the real thing, or doubled 240p~ish with an added SLG.
Single fake 'scanlines' setting rather strong for some, but looking just fine for me (about 50%)
Zero lag.

XRGB-2 Plus
Superb linedoubler that adds component input and a remote.
Sharper than the XRGB2 and one of the sharpest/clearest I've seen, different-looking linedoubling quality but on par with the XRGB3 IMHO.
4 'scanlines' intensity levels, quite nice even if I feel level 3 is alright for everything.
Very unfortunate lack of AFC to prevent off-60Hz sources from bending/warping at the top of the screen, resulting in often visible distortion and trembling that's impossible to fix, or maybe with external sync processors but I could never try since I've had one only for a short time and I was too busy.
Never tried the Super Mode secret menu, dunno if there's something here that could help...
You can remove the 'mask' that forces 720x480p output and reveal some lines that were otherwise hidden, which can affect compatibility with displays of course.
Zero lag.

XRGB-3
Top clarity and stability in linedoubling mode + actual upscaling mode that's now outputing 720p and 1080p through DVI even (no scanlines thu). Can be really nice even for 480i.
Configurable scanlines intensity.
No masked lines.
Zero lag in that linedoubling mode (superior to the Mini for that).
My only gripe with it is that again the linedoubling looks different from the other XRGB units, and in my eyes at least it's got a little flaw with the fake line's alignment that makes it look less realistic than it could be if this was fixed.

DISPL
- note: I've had that one for only a few months and didn't take enough time to do thorough-enough comparative tests, anyway;
Well it's too rare a unit to be recommended but I feel it could be useful to talk about it as the rumor says the (good) XRGB-1 has quite similar quality and compatibility.
The picture is quite stable, a bit more than the XRGB2's but not as much as the XRGB3's, few settings to tune it but they work okay.
Clarity is impressive, and the distribution of lines/scanlines feels more equally 'spaced' and 'raw' compared to the others.
The single very dark fake lines setting is brutal, but it gives a rather strong/striking feeling with a good shaping, high contrasts, and overall feels the most crt~ish and analogue of all.
Color reproduction though could be better, I don't know if this is because of the poorer/older components or full potentiometer controls, but the colors may easily feel unbalanced and less natural, but that also participates to the typical 'pop' of the DISPL.
Compatibility is still a mystery to me, it's very stable with all consoles I've tried, but not necessarily with the few pcb's I have (cave, toaplan, visco) as strangely the toaplan and visco showed some top-screen distortion.
My guess, since it's known to be compatible with extreme pcb's like Xexex, is that it's been designed to be okay with a number of arcade hardwares (or signals and frequencies simply), but not any source. Everything else that's not on the 'list' just gets passed and doubled as is, and it's up to your display to like it or not.
I think the XRGB1, at least the updated version, is like that too.
No lines masking.
Haven't tried 480i yet.
Requires some modding job for the RGB input adapter or some scart cables.
..aaaaand zero lag.

Marq's DIY scaler
...WANT as it may be like all of those but better.


Note that some of the things I'm writing here are from my personal experience, it's not the same for everyone, and some of my comments might sound like absurd of heresy to some.
Also in most cases now I'm using a pretty great Sony W tv set and a good vga>component transcoder, results can more or less vary with different sources and overall display setups.

[RetroGame❤]

XRGB-2 Plus
...Sharper than the XRGB2 and one of the sharpest/clearest I've seen

This is what gets me! I keep hearing two things said about the 2 Plus...

1. "It's one of the sharpest line doublers in the XRGB line"
2. "It's got the most unstable image of the XRGB line"

My brain just about locks up trying to wrap itself around these contradicting factors...

[RetroGame❤]

XRGB-2
No component input, good only for scart/jp21 RGB period.

Is the VGA input on the back of the XRGB-2 processed or just passthrough?

[Fudoh]

This is what gets me! I keep hearing two things said about the 2 Plus...
1. "It's one of the sharpest line doublers in the XRGB line"
2. "It's got the most unstable image of the XRGB line"

I had the plus twice. Didn't like it the first time, didn't like it the second time. IMO Micomsoft's worst.

Marq's DIY scaler
...WANT as it may be like all of those but better.

it is.

[RetroGame❤]

This is what gets me! I keep hearing two things said about the 2 Plus...
1. "It's one of the sharpest line doublers in the XRGB line"
2. "It's got the most unstable image of the XRGB line"

I had the plus twice. Didn't like it the first time, didn't like it the second time. IMO Micomsoft's worst.

Marq's DIY scaler
...WANT as it may be like all of those but better.

it is.

I will be getting Marq's unit as soon as it's available. Although, I wouldn't mind a good stop-gap for my Saturn (for the time being...)

Also, thank you Fudoh, Xyga and others! You've more than convinced me to steer clear of the 2 Plus.
But the 1 or 2? they seem pretty solid...

[Fudoh]

Although, I wouldn't mind a good stop-gap for my Saturn (for the time being...)

since you will part with it again anyway after getting Marqs' unit, just get what you can find. XRGB-1 and DISPL are quite hard to obtain. XRGB-2 is always solid. 3 might be too expensive for an intermediate solution.

[Fudoh]

PS: with your level of dedication, you should still consider a FM though. As it offers great 480i quality it's a valid machine even next to marqs' linedoubler.

[Xyga]

Regarding the X1 & X2: just echoing Fudoh, the old XRGB's are always good purchases, the 2 is the real 'all-rounder linedoubler' of the Micomsoft family, I'd take it before the 1 just for its single integrated scanlines and actually useful adjustment features.

In any case if you find one, really don't pay too much for it, as again...Marq's scaler is probably only months away (@Marq: if we're putting too much pressure on you just say it )

[RetroGame❤]

Since you will part with it again anyway after getting Marqs' unit

I must admit, it's exciting to hear that level of confidence from you regarding Marq's project!
He's not already taking pre-orders, is he?

[RetroGame❤]

PS: with your level of dedication, you should still consider a FM though. As it offers great 480i quality it's a valid machine even next to marqs' linedoubler.

Yeah, I may just break down and get one in the near future. One more remote to add to the clutter on my desk...
Of course, should I decide to pick up a PCB or two, it would never be a bad thing to own an XRGB-1 or 2...

[philexile]

To me, the XRGB-1 was better than the XRGB-2. The XRGB-2 had some slight instability issues with bright lines, which Fudoh mentioned in his Micomsoft roundup. This isn't that bad, but it really annoyed me. I also disliked the on-screen menu and preferred the simplicity of the original.

Also, the XRGB-1 has the same compatibility of the DISPL, just minus the scanlines. That is easily fix though with a cheap mini SLG.

Most of my retro systems are hooked up to a BVM, so I was only really interested in getting the NES, SNES, or other random system on my HDTV from time to time. I didn't really have many problems, but I did need use an Extron 203rxi as a go between because my Sony panel is picky.

[Xyga]

Well you're describing precisely some of the strenghths of the XRGB2: no need for an additional machine like and Exton RGB thanks to its AFC+DTC settings, and built-in fake scanlines (which is superior to external 'generators' due to the production of actual black color).
I honestly could always eliminate most of the noise and instability (95% of it at worst) in practically any situation save for some really irritating pcb's, something I can't do so well with the DISPL because it lacks AFC.
The remaining few lines with a bit of trembling are only visible on still screens and sticking your nose on the display really.
The XRGB2 in my eyes is the only 'all-in-one standalone' machine in the series.

From what I'm seeing though, the X1's advantage is that it's really cheaper (from realistic sellers at least), and I haven't seen it myself but it may have the same linedoubling quality as the DISPL's, which can be really enjoyable.
At a time we're about to see the old XRGB series off to the retirement home, it's wise not to spend to much on one, so the X1 is a good choice in that aspect.

[RetroGame❤]

XRGB2: no need for an additional machine like and Exton RGB thanks to its AFC+DTC settings

Xyga (while I'm not really looking to get a 2 Plus anymore due to all of the negative feedback I've heard about it) I'm just curious about one thing...

I've heard several people talk about the unstable (or wiggly) image, but I've also heard that this can be nearly eliminated by setting the DTC-TYPE to PS for auto-scrolling games (like shooters) and setting it to NTSC for games that only scroll when you move your character (like beat 'em ups).

Did you ever find this to be true?

[Xyga]

It's source dependent I think, those two presets may or may not work best, personally I use the manual one (user_dtc) as I've found the best results with it.
The presets can be very stable but also show some noise in the background, they're not optimal IMO.
The AFC level also affects stability, if you can't get it right enough there are several other AFC sliders available in the hidden Super Mode menu for fine-tweaking.
Note that it's not something you'll need to do every time nor spend hours on, after some time you'll get what settings are best on average for your setup (source+xrgb2+display) and leave most as they are.

Again depending on the source, and if you stick your nose to the screen you may still see some minor line instability, more so if you don't use the fake lines (built-in or SLG).
If you're really OCD about small signal imperfections and your objective is something near-perfect, almost emulator-like, then by all means get a Mini or Marq's scaler instead, as the old XRGB machines (older than the 3) can all show some small imperfections at times.

In other words the XRGB-2 just happens to combine the widest compatibility in the series, while being able to stabilize the image quite decently to very efficiently in many many cases, but not perfectly.

[philexile]

The XRGB2 also needed the Extron. In fact, I found that the XRGB1 had less issues.

The XRGB2 only had one scan line setting and the SLG was actually able to give a wider variety of options.

But who cares DIY is on the way!

[Xyga]

Probably different sources and displays = different results, as I haven't experienced the same things you did.
And SLG lines are inferior IMO, a single 50% setting with true black overlaying/hiding capability is better than always-gray even maxed out.

[philexile]

Oh you had the gray scanline issue. I had that as well. Fudoh clued me in to the solution - put the SLG through the Rgb interface rather than just on the output directly to the tv. That fixes it and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Thanks again Fudoh!

[RetroGame❤]

If you're really OCD about small signal imperfections and your objective is something near-perfect, almost emulator-like, then by all means get a Mini or Marq's scaler instead, as the old XRGB machines (older than the 3) can all show some small imperfections at times.

Not really super OCD... I'm used to the Waka (for PS1) which was basically a contemporary unit to the XRGB-2, and I'm told they have a very similar output... Anyway, I ordered Marqs' unit last night as soon as he posted the list. Looking forward to it. Though, I still think I may pick up an XRGB-2 if possible... From what I've heard, it's not a device that anyone regrets owning.