TORO - Advanced Video Box for the Dreamcast!

[Fudoh]

I assume you're using the Toro's internal sync combiner ?

RGBHV through an external combiner definitely works. I only played DC on a BVM a few weeks ago.

[Sir Arthur ahf]

[Fudoh]

but I don't mean component. Just a simple RGBHV to RGBs or RGsB sync converter.

[Sir Arthur ahf]

I assume you're using the Toro's internal sync combiner ?

RGBHV through an external combiner definitely works. I only played DC on a BVM a few weeks ago.

Yes I tried switching it on and off (RGBHV/RGBS) and the result was the same

[Sir Arthur ahf]

I know it's a stupid question but:
Have you previously/recently connected another 480p source to your set (with the same cable) and verified that it displays without that particular distortion?
Just to rule out any possible problems on the set (or cable) itself.

Yes, PS2 and xbox (through components) run flawlessly

[Fudoh]

Yes I tried switching it on and off (RGBHV/RGBS) and the result was the same

what I am saying is: if you can't solve it, use an external RGBHV to RGsB sync converter instead. It works. I've been playing DC on a D-series BVM not too long ago.

[HydrogLox]

Yes, PS2 and xbox (through components) run flawlessly

Just for context. The TORO outputs either:

• RGBHV - RGB with separate horizontal and vertical sync (5 separate signals)
• RGBS - RGB with combined sync (4 separate signals)

The PS2 outputs 480p as

• RGsB in RGB mode (RGB with combined sync on Green) (3 separate signals)
• YPbPr in component mode (3 separate signals)

The Xbox outputs 480p as YPbPr.

So the signals coming from the PS2 and Xbox aren't identical to the signals from the TORO.
Hence Fudoh's suggestion to go with a RGBHV to RGsB sync converter.

[Sir Arthur ahf]

Thanks Tobías and Hydrog

I will try the converter

[Sir Arthur ahf]

It worked!

Thanks a lot guys!

[Ninjatemper]

Toro won't sync with Wells Gardner monitor:

I bought the Toro mainly for the nifty trick of forcing games into VGA mode that aren't normally supported. When I hooked it up to my Dreamcast and Wells Gardner D9400 Monitor (via VGA port), it refused to sync. When I use one of the cheaper quality Chinese Dreamcast VGA boxes on this monitor, it works beautifully. Any ideas on what the difference could be? I've tested the Toro on an LCD with 480p VGA input as well as through a framemeister at 480p through the scart scocket. It worked fine in both those situations so it's not likely a problem with the Toro itself.

[FBX]

Got me a Toro a couple weeks back and have been very happy with it. Amazingly, the picture quality is actually cleaner when I hook it into the Framemeister instead of directly into my display's VGA port.

[HydrogLox]

Any ideas on what the difference could be?

Some equipment is simply not that tolerant of signals that "it" considers off-spec ("the spec" being whatever the equipment actually supports).

Anyone using one: Wells-Gardner D9400
Before buying a Wells-Gardner monitor, read about their problems

The signal coming out of the TORO (and Kuro) seems to be somewhat different than what comes out of a DC VGA box of earlier manufacture.

• I have a VGA-to-HDMI converter (2013 April - looks like a Manhattan 177351 but isn't "Manhattan" branded) that works fine with "regular" DC VGA boxes but blacks out at regular intervals with the TORO (2014-Sept/2015-Jan) and Kuro (2013-April).
• My Audio Authority 9A60A works as long as the scanlines on the TORO are turned off.

Given its target market the XRGB-mini has to be a bit more tolerant of the signals that it accepts - and even then initially adapters with "sync-boost" were common for use with some consoles (not the Dreamcast).

I bought the Toro mainly for the nifty trick of forcing games into VGA mode that aren't normally supported.

Unless the "VGA Box" can only support 31kHz RGBHV (typical boxes supported 480i over composite and S-Video in "TV" mode) that trick was typically done by starting in "TV" mode and then switching to "PC" mode at the appropriate time. The Kuro offers 15kHz RGBHV (as opposed to 15kHz RGBS on a DC SCART cable) as an alternative (which can work with some multi-sync monitors), while the TORO also offers 15kHz RGBS and 31kHz RGBS over both the 21-pin SCART and DE-15 connector.

[TheRetromancer]

My 46" Samsung 'Touch of Red' HDTV doesn't like the DC VGA signal - the VGA cables that are so common simply don't work with it (although it works with my computer monitors, bugger), so being an elitist bastard, my Dreamcast hasn't seen any action for months. I could have bought an RGB SCART cable for it, but I really, really wanted 480p, not just 240p.

As soon as I saw that the Toro could output 480p over the SCART output, I jumped on it. It'll go quite nicely with my X-RGBmini Framemeister.

[austin532]

Got me a Toro a couple weeks back and have been very happy with it. Amazingly, the picture quality is actually cleaner when I hook it into the Framemeister instead of directly into my display's VGA port.

Which is odd because the mini struggles with 480p and yet Dreamcast still looks amazing with the Toro through Scart (at least the one game I tested).

[FBX]

Got me a Toro a couple weeks back and have been very happy with it. Amazingly, the picture quality is actually cleaner when I hook it into the Framemeister instead of directly into my display's VGA port.

Which is odd because the mini struggles with 480p and yet Dreamcast still looks amazing with the Toro through Scart (at least the one game I tested).

I think it's just my TV hates having to upscale lower resolutions, either that or Sony decided to internally apply a bi-linear filter that makes the image look muddy on my set. Obviously the one drawback to using the Framemeister with the Toro is the 480p false contouring. It was quite obvious when I loaded up Code Veronica with my sharp H/V scaler settings.

[tacoguy64]

Got me a Toro a couple weeks back and have been very happy with it. Amazingly, the picture quality is actually cleaner when I hook it into the Framemeister instead of directly into my display's VGA port.

Which is odd because the mini struggles with 480p and yet Dreamcast still looks amazing with the Toro through Scart (at least the one game I tested).

I think it's just my TV hates having to upscale lower resolutions, either that or Sony decided to internally apply a bi-linear filter that makes the image look muddy on my set. Obviously the one drawback to using the Framemeister with the Toro is the 480p false contouring. It was quite obvious when I loaded up Code Veronica with my sharp H/V scaler settings.

It's been a while since i hooked up my DC to my tv but I also remember connecting through the frameister yielded better results than hooking it up directly though vga. Kinda disappointing but I think it's just my display that struggles with 480p content.

[jdawg131]

I received my Toro VGA Box in the mail just an hour or so ago. The build quality is first rate. I have it connected to the XRGB Mini using a SCART to JPN-21 cable (running into a Selecty 21 switch), and am using FBX's DCVGA profile. I've only had the chance to test Super Turbo, but wow. With the Toro's scanlines enabled, the game just looks incredible. Pure, classic Capcom / Street Fighter bliss.

Many thanks beharius, FBX, and retro console accessories (custom built the SCART to JPN-21 cable upon request). You guys rock and help make this forum such an awesome place to visit.

[austin532]

Not a fan of the Toro's scanline settings as they look weird but I rarely use scanlines for Dreamcast anyway seeing how there are only a select few games that support 240p.

[beharius]

Thanks for your kind words! Enjoy it!
Btw we can build custom JP21 cables too.

I received my Toro VGA Box in the mail just an hour or so ago. The build quality is first rate. I have it connected to the XRGB Mini using a SCART to JPN-21 cable (running into a Selecty 21 switch), and am using FBX's DCVGA profile. I've only had the chance to test Super Turbo, but wow. With the Toro's scanlines enabled, the game just looks incredible. Pure, classic Capcom / Street Fighter bliss.

Many thanks beharius, FBX, and retro console accessories (custom built the SCART to JPN-21 cable upon request). You guys rock and help make this forum such an awesome place to visit.

[masqdgamer]

Thanks for your kind words! Enjoy it!
Btw we can build custom JP21 cables too.

Got mine last week, awesome job!

[beharius]

New cables...

https://flic.kr/p/HPMgLu

[tacoboy42]

Does the Toro output 480p through the SCART connector in VGA mode? or do you need to use the VGA port to get 480p?

Thanks!

[beharius]

Both connectors can output 480p.

Does the Toro output 480p through the SCART connector in VGA mode? or do you need to use the VGA port to get 480p?

Thanks!

[masqdgamer]

Both connectors can output 480p.

Does the Toro output 480p through the SCART connector in VGA mode? or do you need to use the VGA port to get 480p?

Thanks!

Is using an XBOX360 in VGA at 640x480 considered to be 480p?
I have the Toro connected to the 360, then trying to send the signal the Framemeister through the SCART out, can't get a signal.
What am I doing wrong?

[zakruowrath]

Both connectors can output 480p.

Does the Toro output 480p through the SCART connector in VGA mode? or do you need to use the VGA port to get 480p?

Thanks!

Is using an XBOX360 in VGA at 640x480 considered to be 480p?
I have the Toro connected to the 360, then trying to send the signal the Framemeister through the SCART out, can't get a signal.
What am I doing wrong?

VGA signals are always progressive scan

And the Toro is only an output device as far as I know so if you just connect your 360 VGA cord into the Toro it won't do anything because the Toro's VGA and RCA ports as well as the SCART ports are all outputs and not inputs.

[masqdgamer]

VGA signals are always progressive scan

And the Toro is only an output device as far as I know so if you just connect your 360 VGA cord into the Toro it won't do anything because the Toro's VGA and RCA ports as well as the SCART ports are all outputs and not inputs.

The Toro works fine with the 360's VGA cord when outputting VGA from the Toro to the display.
If I use the SCART output into the Framemeister I get no signal. 360 is set at 640x480.

[CkRtech]

VGA signals are always progressive scan

Some of the video modes that I used on PCs in the early 90s would disagree with this statement.

[zakruowrath]

VGA signals are always progressive scan

Some of the video modes that I used on PCs in the early 90s would disagree with this statement.

Really, I was always told that VGA signals were progessive, learn something new everyday

VGA signals are always progressive scan

And the Toro is only an output device as far as I know so if you just connect your 360 VGA cord into the Toro it won't do anything because the Toro's VGA and RCA ports as well as the SCART ports are all outputs and not inputs.

The Toro works fine with the 360's VGA cord when outputting VGA from the Toro to the display.
If I use the SCART output into the Framemeister I get no signal. 360 is set at 640x480.

I'm curious to see a picture of how you have it hooked up

I do know there's a switch that changes the sync from 15hz to 31hz, it's number 7 on this diagram. And then there's a push button, labeled number 11 on this diagram that switches from combined sync (CSYNC) to separate sync (Horizontal and Vertical).

[masqdgamer]

I'm curious to see a picture of how you have it hooked up

I do know there's a switch that changes the sync from 15hz to 31hz, it's number 7 on this diagram. And then there's a push button, labeled number 11 on this diagram that switches from combined sync (CSYNC) to separate sync (Horizontal and Vertical).

Part 1 and 2 in that diagram can be removed and replaced with an optional VGA input connector.

[zakruowrath]

I'm curious to see a picture of how you have it hooked up

I do know there's a switch that changes the sync from 15hz to 31hz, it's number 7 on this diagram. And then there's a push button, labeled number 11 on this diagram that switches from combined sync (CSYNC) to separate sync (Horizontal and Vertical).

Part 1 and 2 in that diagram can be removed and replaced with an optional VGA input connector.

Ah I didn't thou that was an option on the Toro. The only thing I can think is the sync signal is not getting to where it needs to go, VGA is horizontal and vertical sync so it needs to be combined by the Toro to CSYNC to be output through the SCART connector. People have said the RGB port on the XRGB Mini accepts 15hz and 31hz so that shouldn't be a problem. Or maybe the 360 outputs a VGA signal that the Toro just doesn't like.