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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:09 pm 


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As far as I measured it is very accurate. Try using direct audio from the dreamcast and verify it in your system, so you can rely on it.

You can do that using an external amplifier, speakers, a crt, etc.

Keep in mind that it only measures the audio delay, and it can be assumed the audio follows the video delay. Hence, this test.

Please let me know of your results.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:31 pm 


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Thanks, I was using the audio input of my pc, it could explain... I tested directly to my A/V Receiver.
1/4 frame accuracy : 1,5 / 1,75
1/16 frame accuracy : 1

Seems correct.

Can I suggest you 2 options ?
- add a loop option
- below "Lag is x.xx frames", also add the result in ms and a rating
ex :
Lag is 0,5 frame (8,335ms) / Perfect
Lag is 1 frames (16,67ms) / Excellent
Lag is 2 frames (33,34ms) / Good
Lag is 3 frames (50ms) / Poor
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:33 pm 


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Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look into that.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:45 am 


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I wanted to point out that "My Life in Gaming" did an episode on the suite, I believe they did an excellent job demonstrating several tests and the use cases, as well as explaining what the suite is for. You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUdfPdM1mw0

There is also a new release 1.8 of the Wii version, the main feature is that it now boots from USB devices as well as from SD card.

It also includes the following changes:
- Added 224p versions of linearity and grid, simulating a Genesis and SNES
- Added option to boot in Forced 480p mode, from the XML file
- Changed PLUGE default
- Updated help
- Fixed bug that caused video change mode to be disabled after entering certain patterns
- Can now boot from USB devices.

The download link is the same as always: https://sourceforge.net/projects/testsu ... files/Wii/

The Gamecube version was also updated to include all of the above, minus the USB one of course.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:04 pm 


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Thank you Artemio, top-notch work as usual 8)


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:38 pm 


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akumajo wrote:
Thanks, I was using the audio input of my pc, it could explain... I tested directly to my A/V Receiver.
1/4 frame accuracy : 1,5 / 1,75
1/16 frame accuracy : 1

Seems correct.

Can I suggest you 2 options ?
- add a loop option
- below "Lag is x.xx frames", also add the result in ms and a rating


I didn't add the rating, but did add an option to toggle anytime between frames and milliseconds, as well as the loop and more text cues in the VMU.

I also added the 224 versions of the Grid and linearity, not perfectly emulating teh SNES; Genesis and Playstation, but giving a ballpack of how they'd look.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/testsu ... Dreamcast/

TheShadowRunner wrote:
Thank you Artemio, top-notch work as usual 8)


Thanks, my pleasure!
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:43 pm 



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I intend to make a test suite using patterns like these for the Nintendo Entertainment System. I already have the tools and knowledge to build NES ROMs, just not some of the specialized knowledge about upscalers. I'm aware that the NES doesn't have especially pure RGB, as it generates the video signal directly in the composite domain, and it can't do some of the tests needing 3.5 or 7.5 IRE. But I think I can approximate some of the patterns for those of us who have a PowerPak or EverDrive N8. I've sketched out approximations in this post on NESdev BBS. Is this something that anyone here would want to see made?


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:45 pm 


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I have intentions on doing a nes version, and got an n8 recently. If you intendti make it open source or maybe if you don't mind having a Co developer, I can help out.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:30 pm 


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It's unfortunate because the SMPTE colour bars are one of the most useful things in the test suite for calibrating a TV, and the NES can't do them (it can't do yellow), so you can't calibrate the colour/phase on a monitor with an NES.

I had to settle for using the 240p test suite on my SNES via composite, calibrate against that, and then just swap it for the composite NES.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for NES
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:23 pm 



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I don't know, but NES color $28 (light brown) looks pretty close to 75% yellow to me. It's what Dr. Mario uses for yellow.

Image
Palette generated with Bisqwit's NTSC palette generator


If anything, it should be useful to people who have installed the NESRGB or Hi-Def NES mod. I currently plan to fit it into a 512 Kbit UNROM, so you'll be able to put it on any of several dozen boards such as Contra or on a PowerPak or EverDrive N8. I already have menu and help screens showing with a proportional font, as well as the Sharpness and Linearity tests and graphical infrastructure to start coding most of the two dozen test patterns. How often should I post updates of the work in progress?


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:27 am 



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I've remade about half the tests so far. The download and a screenshot of the menu are in the NESdev topic about this port.

I imagine the hardest ones going forward will be the ones involving motoko.bmp and sonic*.bmp.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:09 am 


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PinoBatch wrote:
I've remade about half the tests so far. The download and a screenshot of the menu are in the NESdev topic about this port.

I imagine the hardest ones going forward will be the ones involving motoko.bmp and sonic*.bmp.


just tested it and it is looking great so far, excellent job man.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:31 am 



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I've released 0.02 which fills in a bunch more tests. Three of them remain, mostly because I'd like to have original art instead of Ghost in the Sonic.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:56 pm 



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0.04 is out and should appear feature complete. This might be our chance to discover what the IRE levels of the NES composite output really are.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:51 pm 


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Artemio do you know if a software for windows such as your manual lag test exists?

I want to test my usb arcade stick input lag to see how bad it is.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:24 am 


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PinoBatch wrote:
0.04 is out and should appear feature complete. This might be our chance to discover what the IRE levels of the NES composite output really are.


Awesome work man. I see that the IRE values have been read already. I have a vectorscope and oscilloscope in hand, will confirm values on wednesday.

donluca wrote:
Artemio do you know if a software for windows such as your manual lag test exists?

I want to test my usb arcade stick input lag to see how bad it is.


I've only read about these methods in the past:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/ ... -input-lag
http://filthypants.blogspot.mx/2015/06/ ... sting.html
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:10 pm 


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I see, thanks. I wanted something more simple. If Stepmania/DDR had a way to show you by how much you missed the perfect trigger that would be ok actually :P


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:31 am 



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The NES version of Manual lag test is very StepMania-inspired, but then the emulator introduces its own lag.

Also 0.05 is out, which incorporates lidnariq's measurements and plenty of PAL fixes.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:54 am 


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This is such an awesome product. I am excited to try it out on my snes.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:51 pm 


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When using the Wii version and sending it through my video switch (which converts component to DVI) into my display, I cannot see anything IRE 3.5 or below no matter my brightness settings, while of course I can see lower values via component.

Does this imply that my switch is cutting off the upper and lower RGB range when it does the digital conversion? Is that even possible?

My assumption is that, since the display has a DVI port, and the manual for the DVI input board shows it expecting a PC input, the display expects and should support full range RGB. Maybe this is wrong?

Sorry if this is kind of OT, I've been trying to fully understand this DVI input board for a while...


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:00 am 


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Probably, but I wouldn't exactly trust the Wii's video output with a emulated 240p test suite on it either. What about more reliable component sources ? Maybe with a test dvd on a PS2 ? Or a video test file on a PS3 ?


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:04 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
Probably, but I wouldn't exactly trust the Wii's video output with a emulated 240p test suite on it either. What about more reliable component sources ? Maybe with a test dvd on a PS2 ? Or a video test file on a PS3 ?


He seems to be using the wii version, which is native component.

In that case, yes some conversion might limiting the range. I can remember the lowest value, but you can check the help or verify it under the pluge and It's help, I'm sure I documented it there.

EDIT: Yes, it can display 1, 2 and 3 IRE via component. Please check it under the PLUGE in the RGB full range mode as well.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:19 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
Probably, but I wouldn't exactly trust the Wii's video output with a emulated 240p test suite on it either. What about more reliable component sources ? Maybe with a test dvd on a PS2 ? Or a video test file on a PS3 ?


As Artemio said I'm using the native Wii homebrew version running in 480p. I'll fish out a DVD-R some time and burn a test DVD, my only other option to check component conversion is the 360 and I know it has some unreliable color space oddities.

Artemio wrote:
In that case, yes some conversion might limiting the range. I can remember the lowest value, but you can check the help or verify it under the pluge and It's help, I'm sure I documented it there.

EDIT: Yes, it can display 1, 2 and 3 IRE via component. Please check it under the PLUGE in the RGB full range mode as well.


Using straight component, 1, 2, and 3 IRE show up fine in the RGB full range mode, and that's how I have the set calibrated (side question- games are built for full rgb range right?).

When converting to DVI, the darkest Pluge in NTSC mode doesn't show up (3.5 IRE) and neither do any of the RGB full range pluges (1, 2, and 3 IRE). This happens even at max brightness on the display.

Trying to figure out if it's the display or the DVI conversion causing trouble, and I've always assumed it was the DVI conversion.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:41 pm 


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Artemio wrote:
That is game dependant, since this is a stand alone application developed with KallostiOS on DC. In order to enable that, you need to rip the games, patch the images and play those patched images.



Sorry for bumping such an old message, but you seem to have a lot more knowledge than I have XD

I am trying to find how to patch Dreamcast Games to work in 240p, such as GAROU MOTW, but I don't know how to find what actually triggers that mode in the console (in such games that already work in 240p), any ideas?

This has been done with PS2 games, but no sign of it in Dreamcast, it's very sad, so the console is capable (your test suite widely demonstrates this :) ) No one has made it yet.

Any help will be very welcome, as I am very noob in this affairs XD Thanks.

PD: I'm really putting a lot of effort in getting this work, but my knowledge is very very limited, and there aren't so many people with the proper knowledge about this (I'm researching the whooole internet haha).


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:48 pm 


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Linkr2 wrote:
I am trying to find how to patch Dreamcast Games to work in 240p, such as GAROU MOTW, but I don't know how to find what actually triggers that mode in the console (in such games that already work in 240p), any ideas?


No, none. Sorry.

Linkr2 wrote:
This has been done with PS2 games, but no sign of it in Dreamcast, it's very sad, so the console is capable (your test suite widely demonstrates this :) ) No one has made it yet.


As stated before, this was made to do it.. not hacked. So it proves nothing. However I am sure it is possible if you read, experiment and learn SH4 assembly.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:23 pm 


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Thanks for your reply Artemio!

Well sadly I am no programmer, I have 0 experience in coding so the only thing I can do is wait until someone with the proper knowledge manages to approach the solution and help him in any way I can (sadly as it's Dreamcast and no PS2, not very confidence about that is going to happen :_D)

Sorry about the off-topic I've made, but nearly everyone ignores me in the other threads I opened, I guess this is not a must wanted feature :)


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:01 pm 



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Any mirrors of the ISO's ?

Sourceforge have a bad rep for shady practices.


2015-10-16: "FileZilla binaries from sourceforge ... Malware warn"
2015-07-24: Downloading from SourceForge? Official links deliver fakes also
2015-06-18: A hotbed of malware: Another blow for SourceForge as Google discovers 588 pages with malicious software
2015-06-02: What happened to Sourceforge?
2015-05-28: Anatomy of SourceForge/GIMP controversy
2015-05-17: AntiAdware Gets Rid of Bundled Crapware on Popular Download Sites (SourceForge cited as a source of crapware)
2015-03-11: Mind the PUP: Top download portals to avoid
2015-01-21: Yes, Every Freeware Download Site is Serving Crapware (Here’s the Proof)
2014-11-25: SourceForge malware


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:12 pm 


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Markybhoy wrote:
Any mirrors of the ISO's ?

Sourceforge have a bad rep for shady practices.


2015-10-16: "FileZilla binaries from sourceforge ... Malware warn"
2015-07-24: Downloading from SourceForge? Official links deliver fakes also
2015-06-18: A hotbed of malware: Another blow for SourceForge as Google discovers 588 pages with malicious software
2015-06-02: What happened to Sourceforge?
2015-05-28: Anatomy of SourceForge/GIMP controversy
2015-05-17: AntiAdware Gets Rid of Bundled Crapware on Popular Download Sites (SourceForge cited as a source of crapware)
2015-03-11: Mind the PUP: Top download portals to avoid
2015-01-21: Yes, Every Freeware Download Site is Serving Crapware (Here’s the Proof)
2014-11-25: SourceForge malware


Don't worry, no part of the suite contains executable files for Mac, PC or Linux. You should always get a zip with the iso or binary ROM for your choice of console. That's why I've not migrated it after changing from Google Code.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:08 pm 



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Most popular ad blockers now block sourceforge.net so anyone in the future will prob have issues getting hold of them.
You can disable it easy enough but some might not want to.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:16 pm 


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Can confirm, uBlock Origin tries to stop me from visiting any SourceForge site since it's classified as a malware site:

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