Tell me about your MAME setup

[donluca]

Long story short: after reading several threads about dedicated MAME machines, I'm getting interested in building one.

I'd love to hear some stories about your setups, mainly about how you've built them (hardware used) and why you chose to built it that way instead of another.

Also, I have some concerns which are actually stopping me from already making one.

First one, is emulation accuracy.

MAME seems to be an accuracy monster once properly configured with a 15Khz monitor (like my sony BVM) and indistinguishable from the real thing.
From experience (I've used loads of emulators in the past), I know that the colors reproduced and the speed at which they run are never 100% accurate, let alone the audio part since it seems that emulators completely ignore all the audio circuitry present after the DAC which implies very aggressive low pass filters and low quality headphone/guitar amplifiers which tend to muffle the sound, thus covering the DAC shortcomings.

So how is MAME faring these days?

Next question... MAME, CabMAME, GroovyMAME, AdvanceMAME... what the hell. Which version are you using and why?
I saw a thread here of a guy using AdvanceMAME on good old DOS and that would be awesome as that implies very fast boot times and the possibility of turning the machine off whenever you want.
Although how do you cope with things like video/audio/USB drivers and such?
And what about CRT_Emudriver + GroovyMAME? That seems like the best bet to have a proper machine set up.

Meanwhile I snagged a Jetway Radeon 7000 which is the exact board which the ArcadeVGA 7000 was built upon (so yeah, you can guess what will happen next).

Thanks in advance to everyone who'll chime in!

P.S.: I already have a NeoGeo MVS board with a couple multicarts which (after being extensively modded) work great and cover 90% of the NeoGeo library, but the other arcade boards are really pricey and there's no way I'm gonna shell out 350$ for Darksoft's CPS2 flashcart. No offense, he's a great, hardworking guy making great products, but I just can't see myself putting all that money in that.
That's what made me consider a MAME machine.

[QXC]

For using with a 15khz monitor, groovymame with switchres/crt emudriver works really well when you have it set up with the right hardware. I use a HD 4000 series card and it syncs up to everything I've tried so far nicely, but I sometimes have to make picture adjustments on my PVM to get the raster to line up nicely. It might be different if you are using an actual arcade monitor, I wouldn't know.

I know that some versions of mame have a certian amount of input lag, that's the whole reason shmupMAME is a thing... I wonder if you could use those improvements with groovymame? Or get switchres to work with shmupMAME maybe? It might just be a setting, I don't know.

You might want to look into groovyarcade, it's basically groovymame on a custom linux distro with a frontend and all that already set up. You have to know a bit about linux to get working exactly the way you want, but it's really not that hard if you take some time to learn it.

[donluca]

You might want to look into groovyarcade, it's basically groovymame on a custom linux distro with a frontend and all that already set up. You have to know a bit about linux to get working exactly the way you want, but it's really not that hard if you take some time to learn it.

I didn't know about groovyarcade, sounds cool! I'm totally ok with Linux (actually I'd rather use Linux than windows).

I'll look it up and see what it offers.

[cools]

CRT Emudriver and GroovyMAME on Windows. Don't use Linux, it adds lag.

Indistinguishable from a real PCB, and in a lot of cases better.

[ckong]

CRT Emudriver and GroovyMAME on Windows. Don't use Linux, it adds lag.

Indistinguishable from a real PCB, and in a lot of cases better.

+1 The only way to go when you decide to use emulation software.

[donluca]

CRT Emudriver and GroovyMAME on Windows. Don't use Linux, it adds lag.

Indistinguishable from a real PCB, and in a lot of cases better.

Aww, I was starting to like the idea of GroovyArcade

Lag is a big no-no for me. Input lag is the main reason I've switched one year ago back to CRT and never looked back. I have a Sony BVM 14M4DE, btw.

So far it looks like GM + crt_emudriver is the way to go.

Also, thanks for all the feedback so far!

[cyborc]

+1 for groovymame! I have mine running to a 19" PVM and it's awesome. I actually prefer using groovymame for neo-geo instead of an mvs board+multicart.

[donluca]

+1 for groovymame! I have mine running to a 19" PVM and it's awesome. I actually prefer using groovymame for neo-geo instead of an mvs board+multicart.

Goddamn, when I'll have it setup I'll need to run my MVS board and mame board toe-to-toe to see if there are any differences between them.
I'm still skeptical about the audio emulation, but we'll see.

All these comments are really making me asking myself a question: is there any reason to go after real arcade boards anymore? Has emulation really caught up to the point where it's indistinguishable from the real thing?

[Xyga]

- Old laptop w/ screen removed turned into a soft15khz device for a 21" euro crt scart tv - not working anymore, driver issues apparently
- PC VGA + Extron Super Emotia on another 25" crt tv - old PSU doesn't seem to work anymore, taking the dust as a consequence

This sucks

[donluca]

That sucks

Eventually old stuff just die at some point, getting a new dedicated PC for the MAME project should solve this problem (inb4 my BVM dies).

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

"CRT_Emudriver + GroovyMAME" once you go Groovy...you never look back.. I have been using many variations of MAME since 19XX. I have had MAME setup on TV/PC CRT Monitor\arcade Cabs\Gsync LCD Monitors\PVM\BVM\NEC 29\ Multisync ArcadeMonitors WG9800\ now Candy cab.

I'm an average gamer and I always hear/read people talking about sound issues, lag etc on MAME. Back in the old days 19xx, yes, I could notice those things but MAME has come a long way... Even on regular MAME build, I do not notice any lag, sound etc.. GroovyMame is frightening good. On GroovyMAME, I play the game 1943 often and love it.. I just got the game board 1943 and I can only notice one minor difference while playing.. that is a graphical issue when the planes are going bellow the game play and then above the game play again, like zooming in and zooming out effect. What I am trying to say is that the difference between the real thing PCB game and GroovyMame emulation is mi-nute "in my opinion":) If you do not have a cab, the best setup is a Multisync Arcade Monitor like WG9800.. If you have a Candy cab and GroovyMAME you are a happy Papi.. Shmups game on candy cabs are the, you know what.. something about the monitor orientation.

"no way I'm gonna shell out 350$ for Darksoft's CPS2 flashcart" I have one of those and let me tell you, it is worth every shiny penny "to me". I love the CPS2 system for the fighting games SFA3 baby. I am penitently waiting for the NEOGEO version:)

[donluca]

"no way I'm gonna shell out 350$ for Darksoft's CPS2 flashcart" I have one of those and let me tell you, it is worth every shiny penny "to me". I love the CPS2 system for the fighting games SFA3 baby. I am penitently waiting for the NEOGEO version:)

Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely LOVE getting a CPS2 board and Darksoft's CPS2 flashcart. I'm not saying it's overpriced or anything. Just look at the prices of the CPS2 and it's fairly easy to understand that the flashcart is a no brainer, but I just can't see myself getting one at the moment. Maybe, if one day I'll have a job which will leave me with lots of spare money... yeah I would definitely consider it!

Actually I'm one of the guys posting in the MVS flashcart thread giving suggestions because one day, if it's in the ~250$ price range, I might think about it.

Thanks for your story, I've been reading around other forums and it seems like MAME has indeed gone a long way.

I've bought on the bay a used Dell PC which comes in a small factor case and has a free PCI and AGP slot, sporting a 3Ghz Pentium 4. That, along with the radeon 7000 has set me back 50€ which is fair since I now have almost everything I need.
I just need something like an i-PAC to connect my two custom neo geo sticks and I'm set.

[QXC]

I've bought on the bay a used Dell PC which comes in a small factor case and has a free PCI and AGP slot, sporting a 3Ghz Pentium 4. That, along with the radeon 7000 has set me back 50€ which is fair since I now have almost everything I need.
I just need something like an i-PAC to connect my two custom neo geo sticks and I'm set.

Depending on the game you might get some slowdown issues with that CPU. I've had some slowdown issues on P4 systems, but I wasn't using groovymame and was scaling the output to a normal PC monitor size in that instance. If you have issues, look for a C2D or newer based model. If you want to dump a bit more money into it, you can build a nice socket [s]1155[/s] 1150 system for 200-300 USD here in the states.

EDIT: Excuse me, it's 2015 not 2012.

[donluca]

I want to run basically everything up to the ZN-1 and Taito FX1 system, the one based upon the Sony Playstation hardware.
Mainly for Street Fighter EX, G-Darius and few others. I know 3D games are quite demanding, hopefully through some small overclock I may achieve 100% emulation speed on those games.

[donluca]

Sad news, boys

The P4 630 (3.0Ghz) computer arrived but lots of games run like shiet.

Most CAVE games run at 50-60% and the older ones aren't able to run at a constant 100% speed, dipping down to 90-80% during most chaotic scenes.

This, with "vanilla" MAME, since I had a bad surprise: the system doesn't have an AGP slot like the seller said, only a PCI-X one.

I'll probably ship it back to the seller since he lied to me and I can't run the games I wanted.

Which brings me back to square 1: what kind of CPU do I need to run games up to ZN-1/FX1 (and CAVE shooters, ofc) at a steady 100%?

Will a Core 2 Duo E8500 do the trick or do I have to go for some kind of exotic super-overclocked 4+Ghz setup?

(P.S.: is anyone interested in an arcadeVGA 7000 AGP card? )

[Xyga]

I think I've read about some people who built one with the famous Pentium G3258 on a H81 mobo like the MSI H81M-P33, making it easily overclockable to 4GHz on stock fan, and compatible with Windows XP 64 (best for GroovyMAME I believe).

You should double-check on the byoac forums to confirm if that kind of setup works, because if it does it's a monster many many times more powerful than any p4 or c2d based one.

[Thamiel]

I'm running a G3258 on a h97 board clocked at 4.2ghz with groovymame on Win7. All the cave and ZN-1 stuff runs at 100%

[QXC]

Will a Core 2 Duo E8500 do the trick or do I have to go for some kind of exotic super-overclocked 4+Ghz setup?

I've had no issues using my E8600. I haven't ran any 3d games but I can't imagine them wanting much more CPU power than that.

If that doesn't do it you may as well build new. You can build a whole rig with a haswell pentium for ~$250 USD.

[donluca]

I've had no issues using my E8600. I haven't ran any 3d games but I can't imagine them wanting much more CPU power than that.

If that doesn't do it you may as well build new. You can build a whole rig with a haswell pentium for ~$250 USD.

Actually, I can just swap the motherboard and put in a E8600 for ~40€.
I have one of those Dell workstations, a GX620. I can slam in the 780 motherboard (28€) and an e8600 (10€).

If you still have that setup up and running, can I ask you to run those games and tell me if they ever dipped below 100% (F11 key while running) during their attract mode without filters or scaling?

Tekken 3
Rival Schools
Outrunners
Knights of Valour Superheroes

These cave games are in order from the most demanding to the less ones. So as soon as you find one which runs at a stable 100% you can stop there.

Muchi Muchi Pork
Ibara Kuro Black Label
Mushihimesama Futari Black Label
EspGaluda 2

Thanks! ^_^

I'm running a G3258 on a h97 board clocked at 4.2ghz with groovymame on Win7. All the cave and ZN-1 stuff runs at 100%

I think I've read about some people who built one with the famous Pentium G3258 on a H81 mobo like the MSI H81M-P33, making it easily overclockable to 4GHz on stock fan, and compatible with Windows XP 64 (best for GroovyMAME I believe).

You should double-check on the byoac forums to confirm if that kind of setup works, because if it does it's a monster many many times more powerful than any p4 or c2d based one.

Thanks for reporting! I'll keep that in mind.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

On this side of the world dealsea always post good deals on PC.. I got a modern PC for less than $300 without the HD.. I added my spare HD and 500W power supply and an XFX ATI 4890 ($40 from eBay) which is the most powerful card supported by CRT Emudriver and GroovyMAME as to this writing and called it a day.. CAVE games run supper and so does everything else under GroovyMAME and this setup. The idea is not to have to touch the GroovyMame Hardware setup for a while. I just think about the PC as my main PCB which is capable of running my favorites games. that is how I justify the expense.. just remember how much a CAVE PCB go for and spend the extra cash.. if that is what you like:)

[Xyga]

Tekken 3
Rival Schools
Outrunners
Knights of Valour Superheroes

These cave games are in order from the most demanding to the less ones. So as soon as you find one which runs at a stable 100% you can stop there.

Muchi Muchi Pork
Ibara Kuro Black Label
Mushihimesama Futari Black Label
EspGaluda 2

Ouch. The thing I read here and there on arcade and emulation forums about the e8600 is about people who struggle to get the last % of power needed for a completely smooth running on a numbrer of games that are just a bit too demanding. Regarding the Cave games, those should all run 100% except MMP/Ibara during the heavy memory loadings before boss fights, start of levels etc.
But what if a new update of the cv1k driver ups the power requirements ? It happened a few times already.
The e8600 is borderline, dunno how it'll do with 3D games, but seriously, even though I understand it is quite cheap, a modern CPU would save you a lot of trouble while remaining safe for many years. The G3258 is a favorite choice of many, then a number of i3, those can even handle PCSX2 and Dolphin to give you an idea.
I'm all for saving cash for a setup, but not on the CPU.

PS: after a bit of reading people say the e8600 is okay with several 3D games too, but from the emulation perspective the issue is you need more power for badly emulated/optimized games (drivers), which is the case with Cave.
Sure there's DEmul now, it is much faster than MAME, but the graphics look corrupted and locked to a minimum linedoubled output (no 240p 15khz).

[cools]

I knocked up a cheap setup to prove to myself GroovyMAME was all it was cracked up to be, then stuck a purpose built machine together to use properly. The cheap one still sits in my vert cab.

[QXC]

If you still have that setup up and running, can I ask you to run those games and tell me if they ever dipped below 100% (F11 key while running) during their attract mode without filters or scaling?

Tekken 3
Rival Schools
Outrunners
Knights of Valour Superheroes

These cave games are in order from the most demanding to the less ones. So as soon as you find one which runs at a stable 100% you can stop there.

Muchi Muchi Pork
Ibara Kuro Black Label
Mushihimesama Futari Black Label
EspGaluda 2

Thanks! ^_^

Ah, nforce 780. I remember when those came out... I never wanted one because they could never reach the kind of FSB numbers that a P45 MB could. :p Then again, I'm also pretty sure the P45 came out later... but I wasn't building a computer until P45 was out.

I'll give those a shot this afternoon/weekend. I'm running groovymame on win7 64 with RGB CRT output so everything should be set up similar to what you'd want to do. I've also got a nice motherboard under it so I imagine I could overclock it a bit to see if that helps, though it won't stay there as my cooler is lacking. I'll also fire up the model 2 emulator and see if daytona runs smoothly. My understanding is that basic mame does NOT use the GPU for any calculations, and that getting a higher end card like a 4890 doesn't give you any benefit. However, other emulators might make use of it.

Though to be fair, I imagine the price difference between a E8600 setup and something slightly newer isn't going to be that large. If the games don't quite run smoothly I'll look into the performance jumps to 1156/1155.

I think I've read about some people who built one with the famous Pentium G3258 on a H81 mobo like the MSI H81M-P33, making it easily overclockable to 4GHz on stock fan, and compatible with Windows XP 64 (best for GroovyMAME I believe).

You should double-check on the byoac forums to confirm if that kind of setup works, because if it does it's a monster many many times more powerful than any p4 or c2d based one.

I'm not entirely sure how well that would overclock on a H81 board. I haven't actually dug into the bios of any 80 series motherboard but I know that intel's implication is that only the Z boards can be used for overclocking. I'm sure there are some ways around this, but I imagine there are limitations regardless. That being said, I don't imagine the difference between a ~3ghz haswell pentium and a ~4.5ghz haswell pentium would be the difference between smooth gameplay in anything, as you're awfully close to the limits of x86 single core performance short of crazy cooling.

[Xyga]

I'm not entirely sure how well that would overclock on a H81 board. I haven't actually dug into the bios of any 80 series motherboard but I know that intel's implication is that only the Z boards can be used for overclocking. I'm sure there are some ways around this, but I imagine there are limitations regardless. That being said, I don't imagine the difference between a ~3ghz haswell pentium and a ~4.5ghz haswell pentium would be the difference between smooth gameplay in anything, as you're awfully close to the limits of x86 single core performance short of crazy cooling.

Google it and you'll be surprised, the G3258 overclocks so well several manufacturers released more or less official updates even for their old~ish H81 boards, just because of it. no need for incredible cooling if you're reasonable (stock fan is ok even a bit over 4GHz).
Check here for some mobos testing: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2389948
Maybe there are places where the good mobos are more thoroughly referenced and tested but this is the one I know.
Many websites also wrote articles about OC'ing that little bang-for-buck wonder.

[donluca]

Google it and you'll be surprised, the G3258 overclocks so well several manufacturers released more or less official updates even for their old~ish H81 boards, just because of it. no need for incredible cooling if you're reasonable (stock fan is ok even a bit over 4GHz).
Check here for some mobos testing: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2389948
Maybe there are places where the good mobos are more thoroughly referenced and tested but this is the one I know.
Many websites also wrote articles about OC'ing that little bang-for-buck wonder.

I've read a lot on the topic and yeah, it really seems a one-time wonder.
Easy 4.4Ghz OC with stock cooler and cheap motherboard. I remember needing 200€+ motherboard to do proper overclocking and now... this. What a time to be alive.

And yeah, there's a significant increase in performance in MAME going from stock 3.2Ghz to 4.4Ghz.

@QXC, thank you, I'll be waiting the results!

I'm starting to think about getting just a motherboard + processor + cheap RAM and keeping it without a case to cut costs. It will end up in a drawer so it will be shielded from dust and stuff.

If my calculations are right it should be:

50€ MSI H81M-P33
70€ Pentium G3258
20€ Power Supply
20€ DDR3 RAM
160€ Total

and I have the rest, so I should be set. I'll wait for the results on the Core Duo E8600 and see if I'll really need a system powerful enough to justify the +120€

[QXC]

Google it and you'll be surprised, the G3258 overclocks so well several manufacturers released more or less official updates even for their old~ish H81 boards, just because of it. no need for incredible cooling if you're reasonable (stock fan is ok even a bit over 4GHz).
Check here for some mobos testing: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2389948
Maybe there are places where the good mobos are more thoroughly referenced and tested but this is the one I know.
Many websites also wrote articles about OC'ing that little bang-for-buck wonder.

Ah. Glad they got that sorted out, 'cause my H67 board won't let me do anything with my 2500k.

I'd still take a G3220 over it for emulator use, don't need the extra power and lower power consumption lets you stick everything in a tiny case.

I need to look into running 7 from a USB drive. For a computer like this I'd rahter save a few bucks and boot from a USB than get some cheap SSD. Plus you don't have to worry about stuffing a drive in a teeny cheap case.

And yeah, there's a significant increase in performance in MAME going from stock 3.2Ghz to 4.4Ghz.

There is a decent jump in single core perf, but the question is if MAME actually needs the extra power.

Sounds like even more testing to me. Gonna be a fun weekend.

[Xyga]

MAME is all about CPU power, the higher the single thread performance, the faster/smoother the games will play.

[donluca]

There is a decent jump in single core perf, but the question is if MAME actually needs the extra power.

Sounds like even more testing to me. Gonna be a fun weekend.

There's no such thing as "too much power" *maniacal laughter*

Xyga is right, MAME is really power hungry and the more it develops and gets more accurate, the more power it will need.
I'm afraid that at some point they'll have to stop and do a massive refactoring of the code, as I image it has become one hell of a mess by now. Until then, we'll have to update our CPUs, sadly.
Xyga made an excellent point before saying that you should get the most powerful machine you can afford as MAME will only get worse with time.

I knocked up a cheap setup to prove to myself GroovyMAME was all it was cracked up to be, then stuck a purpose built machine together to use properly. The cheap one still sits in my vert cab.

Hi cools!
I remember reading a lot of useful posts and guides you made somewhere about setting up a mame setup. Thanks for all the effort you've put in it

[QXC]

Alright, ran some quick tests with those games. Did some with the 2500k and normal mame, those were scaled a bit as I can't figure out how to run them native res and windowed. The E8600 results were in groovymame, so removing the limiter doesn't do jack. All tests were done with the attract mode unless otherwise mentioned.

2500k:
Outrunners: ~300% unlimited, no issues.
Tekken 3: pretty steady around ~130%, going from 125 to 140. Dips into the 110s on occasion but doesn't drop below 100% while limited.
MMP: Occasional dip below 100%, unlimited the speed jumps around a ton. The street scene in the attract mode will knock it down in the 80s for just a moment.
Ikari: 100-250 unlimted, occasional dip to 90s while limited.
Mushi: 150-300 unlimited, no issues limited

E8600:
Outrunners: Good.
Tekken 3: Good.
MMP: Dips to 80-70 in attract mode.
Ikari: Dips to 80 in attract mode.
Mushi: Just about 100 steady, I fired it up in god mode and credit fed it through the first stage (to be fair, I was using my non rotated monitor and such), and it did have an occasional dip below 100%.

The issue with groovymame is it syncs everything together, so if you have an occasional dip like in mushi, it makes a very obvious change in audio pitch. So to run things in groovymame you'll have to make sure it never EVER drops below 100%. That being said, if I had to guess I'd say this is more a case of the later cave games not emulating as well as they could rather than raw CPU power. I also had no idea that mame was this damn slow/needs this much CPU for some games.

So, what do you know, a 3258 might just be in order. Time to revise my emulation box build.

[Xyga]

Just as a notice I've read about a G3258 owner who had emulation speed stability issues, all gone after he disabled 'speedstep' in the bios.