Thunderforce III - Thunder Spirits

[iatneH]

Gradius 3 - better in arcade

UN Squadron - better in arcade

R type 3 - OMG it wasn't in arcade it must suck

Parodius is of course far better in arcade.

Why bother with consoles when PCBs are the be-all-end-all of gaming?

Fixed.

[Fenrir]

There are people (like me) that bonked out more than $150 to buy Viewpoint on Neo Geo Cart and, not happy enough, bought it on the PSX too in time to realize that the original version was far better.
Neo Geo hadn't many proper SHMUPs but don't forget VP!

[Neon]

Gradius 3 - better in arcade

UN Squadron - better in arcade

R type 3 - OMG it wasn't in arcade it must suck

Parodius is of course far better in arcade.

Why bother with consoles when PCBs are the be-all-end-all of gaming?

Fixed.

UN Squadron was actually better on SNES than CPSI. Doesn't stop it from being a turd.

[BrianC]

Super Street Fighter II X (PS/SS/GBA don't count here, yes I know you found the GBA one decent BrianC, I didn't)

Decent is probably the right word for how I feel about the GBA Super Street Fighter II X, but I have to admit that I'm not 100% thrilled with it. It's less polished than usual for a Capcom game and just screams rush job. The AI isn't brain dead like the GB Mortal Kombat or Gulity Gear X GBA, but it's not as good as it should be either. I beat the game way too easily on level 8, which I have a much harder time with for many other SF games. It still has good control with the moves intact, but it's glitchy, missing frames, and could have been much better. In other words, I like it, but it's nowhere near the AC or DC versions. I like the GBA versions of SFA3 and King of Fighters EX 2 much better, but they offer nothing over console versions of the games (though I do like some aspects of EX2 better than KoF '99. The unlocking scheme for EX2 is insane, though. Having to beat the game an insane amout of times just to unlock one thing is ridiculious). I still play these games once in awhile for fighting on the go, but there is a reason why these games are outside of my GBA case, unlike Double Dragon Advance.

I definitely want to get the DC SSFIIX, but I'm a bit worried about the price it goes for and finding a used copy in good condition (yeah, I know most places aren't as bad as Blockbuster or gamestores for that thing, but I still prefer to get games in good condition). I also want to get Vampire Chronicle too. Actually, there are so many games I want to get for so many different systems, it's hard to decide what to get next. I already have a DC-X and I don't want it to go to waste, though.

I was thinking of getting the shooter collection for GBA with Star Soldier, Star Force, and Starship Hector, but, from what I tried of the third collection with Milon's Secret Castle and Challenger, the emulation may be extremely poor with shimmering, slow playing sound, and slow gameplay (which IMO completely cripples Challenger, though it's bad for Milon's Secret Castle too). I wish there were more impressions. I hope the games really don't run that poorly on a real GBA, but the fact that the Kunio Collection seems to be the same (and many even the same NES emulation) doesn't get my hopes up. Edit: I found out that the third Hudson Best collection plays differently on every emulator I tried. It only plays slow on one emulator, so that's not an accurate judge of quality for the collections.

[tizerist]

so the general concencus seems to be

TF3> AC>TS
which suits me as i own and cherish TF3

[zaphod]

SNES gradius 3 is actually very good. it's much more balanced then the arcade. and, believe it or not, the atrcade really does slow down about as muhc as the SNES did! so anyone who cokmplains about slowdown in gradius III SNES=teh loser (laugh)

Some efforts, like UN Squadron, and thunder spirits, were definitely sub-par, but there were plenty of good ones.

[superhitachi4]

(and I don't know why since the SFC had wideloads of wonderful shmups).

They're more or less all shit. 2nd worst shooter console next to Neo Geo.

heh I *really* don't want to chime in here, but it's hard to ignore such blasphemy. Incredibly ignorant thing to say about both systems, but then again, everyone has their own opinions...

[ThunderForce 222]

TF V I think whoops them all!!!!!!!!!!! Although TFIII is what I fell in love with. TFV has a great storyline and of course the Soundtrack ROOCKKKSSSS!!!!! Now if only they had used the Track "Knights of Legend"--Time attack select on PS TFV for the map select screen instead....THAT TRACK ROCKSSSS SOOOOO FUCKING HARRRDDD!!!!!!!! If you pick up the 'Lost Technology" Soundtrack which is the PS Version soundtrack with wayyyy cool interludes of Cenes Crawford speaking about the Guardian of course in Japanese but still cool, you can finally have that track!!! Plust the ship design of the Guantlet is sleek and powerful and it's color scheme is cool. But the game is a bit short and easy with the Free-Range---I know--trust me. I won the Thunder Force V contest by Working Designs. The Saturn Version superior of course. The gold packs are harder as they are the Jap versions and TF arcade on Mania is tough but I manage to no-miss it.

[Neon]

(and I don't know why since the SFC had wideloads of wonderful shmups).

They're more or less all shit. 2nd worst shooter console next to Neo Geo.

heh I *really* don't want to chime in here, but it's hard to ignore such blasphemy. Incredibly ignorant thing to say about both systems, but then again, everyone has their own opinions...

Already addressed this. Both systems are poo shmups wise. Excellent in some other genres.

And again, ignorant is NOT the right fucking word here. I've tried more or less every shmup for every major system - I'd say the uninformed are those who view some of these games as actually being half decent.

The Saturn Version superior of course.

Of course? Why would that be so obvious?

[Marc]

Uninformed? Cause I liked (loved actually) U.N. Squadron? Ever heard of an opinion? Guess what, I liked Super R-Type as well, and thought Gradius 3 actually made for a much more playable game than the coin-op. Guess I'd better leave the board now, as I obviously have no clue what I'm talking about

[Rob]

Furthermore, Macross is a great game on the SUFAM. Lock thread.

[BrianC]

I actually like Darius Force/Super Nova. That means I must be the most uninformed person here.

[Marc]

I like Trizeal I'll get my coat

[FRO]

And, to say it all, I'm not a big fan of Thunderforce IV as well, but I always avoid to say it because I don't want to be flamed to death
I even prefer Undeadline to TFIV. Me heathen.

FRO smites Fenrir with a Rail Gun
30 points!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm a huge fanboy of TFIV, so naturally I have to razz anybody that makes comments such as you.

Anyway, I find TS to be a poor substitue for TFIII, & certainly less playable even than TFII.

[Neon]

Uninformed? Cause I liked (loved actually) U.N. Squadron? Ever heard of an opinion? Guess what, I liked Super R-Type as well, and thought Gradius 3 actually made for a much more playable game than the coin-op. Guess I'd better leave the board now, as I obviously have no clue what I'm talking about

How could you disagree with me about anything? What the fuck is the matter with you?

... ^_~. I'm just saying, if these are good games, maybe people lack perspective. There are at least 30 better shooters.

[captain ahar]

i know everything boils down to opinion...

but it seems obvious to me that there are great games, and then there are games that are worth playing.

Gradius III SNES, i like it, worth playing, even though the arcade version shines brighter. Gofer is better than III, but i still play III, etc, etc, etc...

"Nietzsche and God are dead." -Me

[llabnip]

And again, ignorant is NOT the right fucking word here

I don't think anyone here is ignorant... opinionated, to be sure, but generally not ignorant. We've all played tons of shooters for tons of consoles and many of us have played probably 95% of all shooters that are known to exist since the dawn of time. The only thing that bothers me is when people try to pass off opinion as fact... which happens far too often here.

The SNES is crap for shooters... is an opinion. There are some who love the shooters on that console - I personally think it is an essential console for shooters based on the 6 or 8 quality shmups for the system and most of them are fairly easy/cheap to obtain... but it's perfectly fair for you to diagree and think the console has no real pull when it comes to our genere. But people here tend to come across as stating things factually (and I'm not just picking you out... we all do it from time to time). I have tried hard over the years to use phrases like "IMO..." or "I think..." or "In my experience, ..." or "Contrary to the popular thinking..." since it is not always obvious for readers to insert such words when they read postings. When you approach an argument like that, it lets your reader know that you've thought about the subject, you formed an opinion and that you may have even reached a satisfactory personal conclusion AND that this may or may not be the same thinking as someone else based on their differing opinion. Always show respect for your reader and they will either be more likely to hear your argument favorably or, at the very least, will be less likely to try and shout back in a "my-position-is-right" factual tone that really leaves most of us discounting what either person had/has to say (for that conversation and potentially future conversations).

Sorry for the rant... to make this even a smige on-topic... I think everyone should go out and play Macross for the SNES (SFC actually). I've played only a few of the Macross shooters, but I've found it to be the most fun of the ones I've played. It's a shame they couldn't get a great Macross shooter for the 32+ bit consoles. DYRL just felt a little too generic for my tastes.

[Ceph]

@Rob and llabnip:
Yes, Macross Scrambled Valkyrie really is surprisingly good in all respects (challanging gameplay, beautiful graphics and effects, good music). As far as I can remember, Neon is the only one to ever say it is bad, and I think he only said so because he feels cornered now.

Macross SV being good is not so much an opinion as it is a fact.

[Neon]

Nah, I'm not so concerned about my intarweb reputation. I honestly just think it's mediocre compared to better hori's - try Salamander 2, G. Darius, or Border Down.

@ llabnip - of course it's my opinion. I sometimes say IMO for the reasons you listed but I mean, jesus. When I say 'Garfield sucks' it's not a fact since millions would disagree. And if you can convince me that it doesn't, I'm not going to cling to my old viewpoint rather than give in to reason and agree with you.

I'll try the Macross game again, but 'best shmup on the SNES' and 'best Macross license' are a little like saying 'my sister is less ugly than yours.' When I think of that game I recall a slowdown-riddled piece a shit with no depth or gameplay.

[superhitachi4]

I've tried more or less every shmup for every major system - I'd say the uninformed are those who view some of these games as actually being half decent

So now those of us who like: (SNES): Axelay, Parodius series, R-Type III, Super R-Type, Gradius III (little slowdown, still decent), Space Megaforce, Area 88, + others, (Neo Geo): Aero Fighters 2-3, Blazing Star, Captain Tomaday, Last Resort, Prehistoric Isle 2, Pulstar, Strikers 1945+, Twinkle Star Sprites, Viewpoint, Zed Blade, (if we're including run n guns...): Metal Slug 1-5+X, and Shock Troopers 1-2 + others are "uninformed"? Wow.

[llabnip]

@ llabnip - of course it's my opinion. I sometimes say IMO for the reasons you listed but I mean, jesus.

Fair enough. I understand you think the SNES is crap for shooters and that's a perfectly valid stance. Some of us don't think the SNES is crap for shooters... and statements like:

I'd say the uninformed are those who view some of these games as actually being half decent

make it look as if you don' t respect the opinions of those of us who are informed but still think there are a fair number of SNES and NEOGEO shooters which are both very fun and very decent. I've gotten accustomed to your posting habits and I'm not terribly offended by the statement above (i.e. I've learned to take it with a grain of salt)... but some might be mildly put-off. Maybe you don't care what others think about your posts but you've got a wealth of video game knowledge which is genuinely useful and I think a bit of care in the wording may make it more palatable to a wider audience. You could argue that people should read your posts with a "better" attitude, but when you leave the entire task up to the reader things are often taken the wrong way. To be fair, I've been guilty of presenting my opinions as matter-of-fact and I've been known to occasionally discount the opinion of others so I could certianly make an improved effort as well.

[Neon]

I've tried more or less every shmup for every major system - I'd say the uninformed are those who view some of these games as actually being half decent

So now those of us who like: (SNES): Axelay, Parodius series, R-Type III, Super R-Type, Gradius III (little slowdown, still decent), Space Megaforce, Area 88, + others, (Neo Geo): Aero Fighters 2-3, Blazing Star, Captain Tomaday, Last Resort, Prehistoric Isle 2, Pulstar, Strikers 1945+, Twinkle Star Sprites, Viewpoint, Zed Blade, (if we're including run n guns...): Metal Slug 1-5+X, and Shock Troopers 1-2 + others are "uninformed"? Wow.

No way. Metal Slug X is great ^_^ Not sure if SNES got Sexy Parodius either, that was a fun one.

Your definition of quality is broad (you've listed nearly half the library for each system). I tend to limit myself to 1-3 titles for a period of weeks, trying to learn the game and do better with it (IMO Metal Slug sucks ass to play for score, but is still fun survival wise, for example. I've one lifed the first and 1cc X). As such, I tend to be too harsh on games that bore me after awhile. That's probably the reason why this appears so outrageous to so many of you.

llabnip's post

Thanks for the kind words. I guess I could stand to be less of an asshole sometimes, and I'm not being sarcastic. Poor communication skills I guess.

[CIT]

^^^^ This is why I respect Neon. I think his views on games are pretty crazy most of the time, but he's never condescending, and he's capable of admitting to faults.

Now Recap, on the other hand...

[TVG]

the snes is crap for shmups compared to about every semi sucessful console out there, that includes the neo geo. it does have a couple okay ones.
all of the above is fact, but if you have poor tastes you might think it's not. you'd be wrong, tho.

and a 30 year old fanboy? man...

[BrianC]

the snes is crap for shmups compared to about every semi sucessful console out there, that includes the neo geo. it does have a couple okay ones.
all of the above is fact, but if you have poor tastes you might think it's not. you'd be wrong, tho.

Umm...the SNES may not have as good of a lineup as many other systems (though I personally feel that it has a good lineup), but you're saying that we are wrong if we like the lineup better than Neo Geo's, which has some great shmups, but less shmups than SNES? Please read llabnip's posts.

BTW, if you don't like the NeoGeo Viewpoint, you are lacking perspective.

[TVG]

the snes is crap for shmups compared to about every semi sucessful console out there, that includes the neo geo. it does have a couple okay ones.
all of the above is fact, but if you have poor tastes you might think it's not. you'd be wrong, tho.

Umm...the SNES may not have as good of a lineup as many other systems (though I personally feel that it has a good lineup), but you're saying that we are wrong if we like the lineup better than Neo Geo's, which has some great shmups, but less shmups than SNES? Please read llabnip's posts.

BTW, if you don't like the NeoGeo Viewpoint, you are lacking perspective.

i guess im biased just because neo geo has blazing star.
ok, neo geo is worse.

[Marc]

How could you disagree with me about anything? What the fuck is the matter with you?

... ^_~. I'm just saying, if these are good games, maybe people lack perspective. There are at least 30 better shooters.

Pardon me , as I said, I'll get my coat

[Fenrir]

I've tried more or less every shmup for every major system - I'd say the uninformed are those who view some of these games as actually being half decent

So now those of us who like: (SNES): Axelay, Parodius series, R-Type III, Super R-Type, Gradius III (little slowdown, still decent), Space Megaforce, Area 88, + others, (Neo Geo): Aero Fighters 2-3, Blazing Star, Captain Tomaday, Last Resort, Prehistoric Isle 2, Pulstar, Strikers 1945+, Twinkle Star Sprites, Viewpoint, Zed Blade, (if we're including run n guns...): Metal Slug 1-5+X, and Shock Troopers 1-2 + others are "uninformed"? Wow.

+andro dunos

I don't know why people usually ignore it but it was one of the less expensive carts and people (+me) bought it and liked it a lot

[Eight One]

PS. N64 and Master System, now those are bad consoles for shmups.

No way dude, Master System had some sweet shmups back in the day. Power Strike (Aleste) and Power Strike II, Fantasy Zone, etc.

No room for Bomber Raid?

[The Coop]

Such heated shmup talk

I've been playing the Thunder Force series since the Genesis debuted with TF2, and of all the series' entries I've played and own, I'd have to say that Thunder Spirits is the worst. Where TF3 brought the console side scroller to new heights, TS was like the evil twin that was out to tarnish the other's reputation. Sure, TFAC wasn't the best it could have been, but it was still a lot better than the SNES port that Seika did their best to butcher.

Somehow, Seika added considerable amounts of slowdown, seemingly darker graphics, a strange delay in the control's response time, and a selection of musical sounds that seemed more fitting on my Master system than the SNES. The saddest part is, they doubled the memory for TS, and came up with a worse looking, playing and sounding product over the Genesis original that spawned it. Not sure how they managed that. It was interesting that they added a few new stages at the end, making TS more like a Thunder Force AC Gaiden or something, but it still didn't help too much in making the game memorable... for the right reasons at least.

So as someone else mentioned, I'd rate it as TF3-TFAC-TS in terms of quality. There were a lot of possibilities with the game, but Seika pretty well dropped the ball. Despite this, I wouldn't get rid of TS, as it's a part of my Thunder Force collection. And when compared to other shmups on the SNES and Genesis, it at least manages to be average over all. But it's still a rough port of a classic shmup, and it's more or less at the bottom of the series as far as favorites go.

I still think that it's pretty cool how a home console game gained such popularity, that an arcade version of it was made. That doesn't happen too often. And since it's been brought up a few times, I too am one of those folks that find Thunder Force IV to the pinnacle of the series. I just feel it did so much right from the graphics, to the sound, to the level and boss designs, that it holds the crown in my book.

Anyway, sorry for bumping this oldish thread, but I felt the need to chime in with my own thoughts about this comparison.