Degica Shmups Thread

[Elixir]

Whether it's possible or not doesn't really matter, what matters is that it fucks up the leaderboard gap and nobody should be forced to use autofire controllers in order to compete with the best scores.

It isn't present in the running demo, M-KAI is obviously aware that it's possible and that's exactly why it isn't possible in Eschatos.

JSS was made in such a way that the player is asked to interpret certain clusters of enemies with wide, and certain single enemies with shot, not sure why anyone would argue otherwise.

Normal and autofire leaderboards exist on this forum for a reason. Assuming leaderboards won't be separated here, if you want leaderboards to have any kind of integrity, you'll prevent autofire abuse.

[Oniros]

After what they've pulled off with Eschatos and Cave in succession, I wouldn't be too surprised if they announced Raizing tomorrow.

I would, Raizing no longer exist in any meaningful sense.

Unless it's "Raizing Legacy" by DotEmu

Don't even joke about it.

[BPzeBanshee]

Trust me, I was laughing on the outside and crying on the inside as I typed it.

[Blackbird]

Taking a look at this JSS autofire issue, the game as it exists appears accurate to the original version - for better or worse. If you hold front shot and mash wide shot, you can fire both. I'll make M-KAI/Qute aware of this issue, but whether we change it or not will ultimately depend on whether they consider it to be intended design.

[CStarFlare]

For what it's worth I quite like it over the weaker shots, though I don't think it's really possible to exploit as much on the WS version for practical reasons (ie: you need to hold the console steady) so it's a little bit unbalanced on the X360 version. I'd rather it was kept for consistency's sake. The fact that isn't not possible in Eschatos is because they decided to trigger the shield with both buttons rather than to defeat the tapping trick. If M-KAI wanted to neuter the tapping shot he could have just limited the intervals at which shots can be fired. And if M-KAI knew about it and was willing to remove it, wouldn't it not be in the X360 releases? Cardinal Sins especially was more or less a commercially unreleased game before it his the 360, there was no purity to protect there.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

It's also a part in the scoring as is because the area bonuses are based on how quickly you can clear the waves. The combined shot allows for you to get through the areas even faster. The combined shot also feels balanced enough on JSS anyway, especially on the Hard Mode, but it it is very important to all modes.


There's a few elements to the JSS score system.


There's the area bonuses for beating the areas quickly.

There's multiplier obtained by using the shield on stuff. It is possible to hit 80+ million score while using the shield a lot, but it is hard.

The better option for multiplier(at least on Normal since Hard is probably too hard for it) is to no miss no shield as much of the game as you can then start using the shield for multiplier after your first death. IIRC, you can get like around 100-120 million just off this if you manage to keep the No Miss No Shield all the way to area 31 and the first boss of it. It's very hard though, but the secret ship does not lose multiplier for using its shield button, so it is a little easier to make it there(still didn't though). Final boss would be worth 100 million if you somehow killed it with x100 multiplier, but that isn't realistic at all.

Survival bonus for lives remaining can also make up quite a bit of score with how many lives you get in a run. I think it was 2 million per on Normal, 5 million per on Hard, and differing amounts per boss in Special mode. I don't remember the values for Training/Easy but both modes don't have multiplier, so like with Special, it'll be where most of the score comes from.


There's also absorbing bullets and damaging enemies with the shield which is also important on Easy/Training since you don't have multiplier on those modes and could be used to boss milk in Special since you do not get speed based area bonuses on Special. Even the lower difficulties might have a little milking on Magnificence in Area 13 since the points from the missiles and absorbs bullets might be worth more than speedkilling it.

[Special World]

Apparently I've been playing the game all wrong, because I had no idea "not shielding" was a thing you're supposed to do.

[Special World]

Though I will say I'm not sure in what universe that would be intended design—if it were, the game would either A) Allow you to hold both buttons at once instead of having to mash back and forth or B) Have a button that fires both at once. Kind of the *whole idea* of the different firing modes is that they have different uses, and being able to use them both at once, well, doesn't really make any sense from a design perspective.

Also, on the argument "Why are they still in there if they were unintended?", M-KAI may have A) Been unaware that people were firing both at once B) Be too strapped for time to implement any changes or C) Kept the games the way they were for archival reasons, aka "This is the game I made, this is the game people have been playing, it would be dishonest to change it."

Specifically, there's an interview with M-KAI where he states something along the lines of: "When I look back at my old games, there are some glaring mistakes that are embarrassing to me now, and that I wish I had had the insight to do differently. But when somebody plays these old games, I hope they notice and appreciate these mistakes, because the mistakes are what makes the game a reflection of its designer."

I may have badly mangled that, but to me it seemed like the exact sort of reason somebody might knowingly *not* fix a fault in their work, perhaps for the exact same reason that a journalist wouldn't amend an article under pressure. Pretty much: Here it is, just how it was and in all its honesty, judge me for it in the light of day and realize I am a human too.

[colour_thief]

That shot in JSS has nothing to do with autofire. I can do it while mashing, though it is kind of annoying compared to how it would be with autofire and limited how many runs I could try at a time. None of my scores for JSS used autofire.

QFT

I'm #1 at Cardinal Sins and I don't think autofire is required to be competitive. Manual is slightly more technical but I think it might have a slight edge.

[liteon]

Please add save state style in port Steam.

[colour_thief]

Personally I'm hoping for JSS to have native ~75Hz refresh support.

[Gespenst]

Steam page is up
http://store.steampowered.com/app/378770/

[S_Fang]

Please add save state style in port Steam.

I don't think is necessary for a game with short levels. It would make sense for games with lots and longer levels in order to ake abreak from the game without re-doing again.

Anyway, we get both Cardinal Sins and Judgement SilverSword with Eschatos' Wonder Pack instead. Perhaps the whole idea of "Eschatos+JSS and Ginga Force+Carndinal Sins" was or risky or not profitable.

[Bonus!]

That collection was, and still is, sold at a premium price for the X360 -- over $80. That would be a very tough sell on Steam.

[kassj0peja]

I can not find Deltazeal's Steam page anymore. Are there still plans to release it on PC?

[Bonus!]

Deltazeal doesn't have a Steam page yet.

[Blackbird]

DeltaZeal's still on the way, page isn't set up yet though. I just ran another preview on my last livestream for it.

Eschatos is this Friday... everyone getting hype yet?

[rtw]

DeltaZeal's still on the way, page isn't set up yet though. I just ran another preview on my last livestream for it.

Eschatos is this Friday... everyone getting hype yet?

Going to be a fantastic autumn, Eschatos, DeltaZeal and a little something from CAVE

[Domino]

Eschatos is this Friday... everyone getting hype yet?

I can't hold it out longer in my pants.

[mastermx]

I too cannot contain my hype for Eschatos on Friday. The hype is real.

[Blackbird]

Still getting organized on the preview! Not sure if it'll be this week or next. I think the actual announcement will be Thurs though.

[Shepardus]

*HYPE INTENSIFIES*

[awry]

fellows...

what if Special told the truth and Eschatos is actually the single greatest scrolling shooter of all time?

[Squire Grooktook]

It's not my favorite of all time, but it's easily top 5 or top 10 at least.

It took me a while to appreciate it's nuance, but it really becomes more special the longer you play, so I recommend everyone stick with it if they're not blown away from the start. It's a really great game.

[Shepardus]

That would be quite surprising, considering it's not actually possible to be more perfect than Cho Ren Sha 68k.

[Squire Grooktook]

On that note, anyone who likes CRS68K should love Eschatos. It has a very similar style and appeal IMO.

[awry]

That would be quite surprising, considering it's not actually possible to be more perfect than Cho Ren Sha 68k.

Only one background.

Into the trash it goes.

[Blackbird]

Now that the CAVE announcement is out, I can point out how ironic it is that Mushi is in the trash, haha.

[S_Fang]

Now that the CAVE announcement is out, I can point out how ironic it is that Mushi is in the trash, haha.

Futari is not in the trash, it still has to get on steam.

[HydrogLox]

I can point out how ironic it is that Mushi is in the trash.

Not really, though it depends on you point of view - my interpretation is that this quasi-collage is just an exaggeration to make a point (... don't ignore Eschatos just because it isn't X or is not made by Y) - i.e. a visual hyperbole. In that case the cover of Mushihimesama Futari isn't about the game in itself but in fact all games made by Cave (i.e. all of which might as well be symbolically sitting in the trashcan) - ultimately criticizing any genre fan who idolizes a single game or games made by a single company of having a severe case of unjustifiable tunnel vision.