Cave x Steam teaser!

[Special World]

Maybe not. But I feel like there has to be a more sensible release model than "here's what'll sell best, here's what'll sell next best..."

I don't think the average consumer has a lot of scope on the genre, and you have to work hard to tell them exactly what the hell they're looking at. I think the best thing would be a retrospective bundle of classic games (Donpachi, DDP, DOJ; or DDP, Esprade, Dangun etc), but I don't think Steam is a good venue for that. The way to grab jaded consumers is either pure value or legacy status. I think Cave and Degica are going to have to be really careful if they intend to release more than a few games on Steam.

[Special World]

Then again I'm just being an armchair STG economist so plz ignore

[amdiggywhut]

and you won't have to get people over the hurdle of swimsuit dolls or beetleriding bug princess or transgender fairies. Dodonpachi is a great game that cuts through all of that. It's immediately appealing.

PREACH.

[emphatic]

Well, ESPGALUDA Arrange probably won't happen as it's a mode made by ARIKA, not CAVE. Just like Ketsui X and the excellent DOJ BL EX.

[Special World]

I should probably clarify that I like original themes way more than [millionth spaceship shooter], but most people just don't get bullet hell and they don't get that these games can have anything other than spaceships. So when they see something else, they have to go through these endless hurdles. Futari's themeing is pretty harmless but a lot of Cave's games are just needlessly weird for the sake of it. There's no reason for Deathsmiles to be anything weird or pervy for example, it can just be a game about young girls fighting monsters WITHOUT chasing this weird "lolis bathing during cutscenes" angle.

So with Dodonpachi it's just like "oh this game kicks ass" and then they see Futari and theyre like "oh this is kinda like that game that kicks ass."

[Cee]

They aren't esprade characters to my knowledge however arrange espgaluda was indeed spectacular.

Well IIRC, the names weren't the same but the gameplay style was the same for Black<->J-B 5th and Chihiro<->Irori. Even though I don't remember that much of the latter one, I did played a lot Black and the way I see it, he is clearly a grown-up version of J-B 5th.

If he was a grown up version of J-B 5th he'd probably you know be called J-B 5th. The gameplay style isn't the same either it's more of a fusion of the 2 but the spread shot and bubble shot are indeed very similar.

[mastermx]

I can see DeathSmiles selling well on steam. But me personally I want to play Saidaioujou. It's the only one that got away. I also think it would do well on steam, I know plenty of people that got into the genre after Crimzon Clover came out, and saidai has that same feel.

[thetricker24]

I feel just like you, saidaioujou has the power to bring new people into shmup playing, all my friends who don't play (played) shmup really loved saidaioujou when they tried, contrary to most of other games.

let's HOPE for a first release : mushihimesama (hd), then SAIDAIOUJOU

[awry]

"well I can play it in Mame."

Trying Cave's games in Mame, the graphics are blurry compared to videos I see of the 360 versions, the sound quality is awful, and there is no "novice" mode. So, I would buy any port with high-res sprites, a high quality soundtrack, and a variety of modes and difficulties to choose from. I doubt they would redraw all the sprites in Dodonpachi, so I would prefer they port Saidaioujou, Espgaluda 2, Mushihimesama HD, etc.

[Cee]

"well I can play it in Mame."

Trying Cave's games in Mame, the graphics are blurry

That probably has more to do with your setup.

[Bananamatic]

mushi would be the best option for the 1st release i guess, probably their last relatively simple and popular game that didn't get localized or made region free and still has bad emulation
plus they could fix the mess with 1.5 being one of the main draws yet 1st edition exclusive at the same time

[d3vak]

mushihimesama (hd)

Mushihimesama HD

Maybe they chose that one instead of Futari...

That probably has more to do with your setup.

Well, the "Arcade" mode which were included in some X360 titles looked like snail shit compared to the "Xbox360 Mode" (HD) modes...

[awry]

That probably has more to do with your setup.

No, I swear the assets are redone for some of the 360 ports. Higher resolution, more detail, etc.
Meanwhile the CV1000 arcade versions run at a paltry resolution of 320x240 according to MAME.

[Cagar]

plus they could fix the mess with 1.5 being one of the main draws yet 1st edition exclusive at the same time

Welcome to Japanese business 101. Everything is so EXCLUSIVE, EDITION and LIMITED that your normal product is air.

And for some reason I've slowly started liking the idea...

[trap15]

That probably has more to do with your setup.

No, I swear the assets are redone for some of the 360 ports. Higher resolution, more detail, etc.
Meanwhile the CV1000 arcade versions run at a paltry resolution of 320x240 according to MAME.

Correct. The ports all have up-res'd resources and are native to a 720p resolution IIRC. The arcade resources are all for 240, and thus quite lower resolution.

[DestroyTheCore]

I'm pretty sure at this point this is going to be a port of Futari. Cave needs to market an already successful game from their niche library and I can't picture a profitable release for neither Ibara Kuro nor Mushihimesama. Personally I would rather have a version of Futari Black Label on PC than Xbox 360 because who knows what could happen to my console in the coming years? Steam might not last forever - although it's constantly gaining in popularity - but a PC version could secure an (arguably) accurate version of this game for a longer period.

[Special World]

I think the 360 modes make butt-ugly pre-rendered sprites look even more terrible, but I guess I'm the only one who feels that way. Cave's enemy sprites haven't been good in a looooong time. Saidaioujou pulls it off better than most though, because the metallic ship sprites don't look as awkward as Futari's enemies or those awful sprites in Deathsmiles. I'm imagining what Deathsmiles would look like with proper spritework, and it's just a shame. Cave's games look good due to strong color choice and nifty score candy, but man some of their design is bad.

[d3vak]

Well I do see improvement:

[Squire Grooktook]

Maybe it's just my tv, but the "normal" modes I tried looked blurry and pixelated to hell and back.

Agree with the spries > pre-render talk though.

[xfullmetal17]

^
I don't think DDP would sell as much as Futari as a Steam first entry. But if they choose DDP, they'd have to include a Novice mode to it because...you know.

Not necessarily... while it wasn't CAVE, Ikaruga didn't include a newly-added novice mode.

If they do Futari, they'd better include the 1.01 version as a "first run" bonus, if not DLC as well. Darn near impossible to find a code for Xbox 360, plus that code's probably only usable on the JP store anyway.

[Squire Grooktook]

DDP's first loop isn't that hard, and is actually really immediately fun on top of being really accessible. A rare feat.

[rtw]

We know the following:

. Tate mode
. Localized

I suspect the first game will be one of the already localized games, my guess is Mushihimesama / Bug Princess with maybe 1.5 as an option.

To be honest I just want pure arcade ports, with an OST (FLAC) and a proper manual with translated story. No arrange modes!

Less is more

[Blinge]

I doubt they would redraw all the sprites in Dodonpachi.

I should bloody hope not.

[Xyga]

I doubt they would redraw all the sprites in Dodonpachi.

I should bloody hope not.

There are good and bad ways to do that, it's possible to bring everything to higher resolution without killing the pixel art, but it's a freaking long, painful job not for people with probably very limited time and funds.

[thetricker24]

We know the following:

. Tate mode
. Localized

I suspect the first game will be one of the already localized games, my guess is Mushihimesama / Bug Princess with maybe 1.5 as an option.

To be honest I just want pure arcade ports, with an OST (FLAC) and a proper manual with translated story. No arrange modes!

Less is more

let's hope !!

[GhostGK]

I'm so very happy!!
I'm hoping for new titles in the making too..

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

The 360 ports where they made the HD graphics while creating the game (like SDOJ) look good in HD. The games where they later upscaled only certain graphics do not (like ESP Galuda II). I'd rather have the original low res than that.

They should make a revamped Futari Red Label if they want to start with Futari. Like they did with Mushihimesama Blue Label. Might as well sell it as a PCB first but ok...

If (any) games look blurry in mame you can just raise your prescaling.

[d3vak]

^
I don't think DDP would sell as much as Futari as a Steam first entry. But if they choose DDP, they'd have to include a Novice mode to it because...you know.

Not necessarily... while it wasn't CAVE, Ikaruga didn't include a newly-added novice mode.

Well that may be fine for us because we are used to playing shmups but definitely not for newcomers. A lot of people just avoid Ikaruga because they know is hard as fuck. Even I have a hard time with that title in particular. If you think of it, the people who did take the time to write a negative review on Steam complain mainly on the difficulty of the game in the case of Ikaruga, and even complain on Crimzon Clover's.
CAVE said they want to gain more fans and while DDP is not THAT hard, the Novice mode is always a good way to be newcomer-friendly. I'm just saying that going the elitist way is not profitable.

[Cee]

^
I don't think DDP would sell as much as Futari as a Steam first entry. But if they choose DDP, they'd have to include a Novice mode to it because...you know.

Not necessarily... while it wasn't CAVE, Ikaruga didn't include a newly-added novice mode.

Well that may be fine for us because we are used to playing shmups but definitely not for newcomers. A lot of people just avoid Ikaruga because they know is hard as fuck. Even I have a hard time with that title in particular. If you think of it, the people who did take the time to write a negative review on Steam complain mainly on the difficulty of the game in the case of Ikaruga, and even complain on Crimzon Clover's.
CAVE said they want to gain more fans and while DDP is not THAT hard, the Novice mode is always a good way to be newcomer-friendly. I'm just saying that going the elitist way is not profitable.

Honestly i think novice modes are a waste of time and don't actually bring hardly anyone into the genre beyond those modes, they just play the easy game and never go up from there. Look at the crimzon clover novice scoreboards on steam and you'l see even that cake walk of a game has hundreds who couldn't even get past stage 3 let alone clear it. The games can only accommodate so much before it comes right back to the player and there attitude/approach to playing.

[DestroyTheCore]

The only actually interesting novice mode I have seen so far is in Espgaluda II. I wanted to learn more about the scoring system without really bothering with survival when I just got the game and I could still score decently with a perfect learning curve. It was easy to no-miss the game though.