Do any of you play your fighting games like shooters?

it290 · Post by **it290** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:29 pm

In 1 player? I've been doing this a bit lately, going for a 1 credit completion on a bunch of my SNK fighting games. It's a good challenge, but can get really annoying thanks to the notorious cheapness of SNK final bosses. I know people who can blow through most KOFs and such at level 8, but I'm just not that good, and often end up getting punished pretty badly at MVS difficulty level. SNK fighters tend to take it really easy on the player for the first few matches, and then ramp up the difficulty level drastically, similar to some shooters (coughcough*cave*cough). I suppose playing survival mode is even more shmup-like in a sense, but I don't believe I've ever completed a fighting game's survival mode.

As a side note, I play for 1cc on a lot of other games as well. Recently I've been trying to do Streets of Rage 2 on the hardest difficulty (not maniac, but rather the hardest you can select without a code), and I've come so close a number of times, but Mr. X always tears me up at the end. I also hope to 1cc Shinobi (arcade) one of these days.

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:23 pm

I always try to 1CC every King of Fighter I play. I've 1CC'd KOF 97, 98 and 2000 so far. But they were all on the normal setting difficulty. I've also 1CC'd Last Blade 2 (DC version) on the highest difficulty, with Lee Rekka. Yeah, I patted myself on the back afterwards.

It was damn tough. And just recently I went through Capcom vs SNK 2 on one credit, on 2 stars above normal difficulty. I was playing 3 on 3 teams, N Groove, as Terry Bogard, Kim and Ryu.

As far as beat-em-up's go, I'd love to try and 1CC Shinobi III. It's one of my favorite Genesis games. Streets of Rage might be a little easier though.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:39 pm

Nowadays, always. Hell...I even keep a subsection of fighter 1ccs listed. As for cheap final bosses, try I-NO in GGX2. It took me a while to figure her out, but once you do...well.....she can still be a bitch if you don't keep on your toes.

As for Capcom vs. SNK 2.....yeah.... The matches aren't that hard, but Devil Rugal is a pain. I find that the easiest way to deal with him is with Vega (Vega lv. 3, Chun-Li lv. 1). His jumps are so fast that Rugal *normally* won't be able to hit with his kick upper. Ahh...the waiting game... Shin Akuma......well....is a pansy if you play smart.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:42 pm

No, it's not worth the time IMO. While it certainly helps in some games like VF4E, it leads to bad habits such as in SSV where the CPU has no clue how to get through Mina's arrows whereas a human would rush that shit down or MSHVSF where spamming Wolverine's specials works just as well against the AI as legitimate combos.

Survival mode AI for SNK fighters is generally dumbed down to where it's not that hard to beat everybody once. But really, I don't think fighters should ever be about 1-player play...

As for SOR2, IIRC, all normal enemies and some bosses can be easily taken out 1-on-1 using staggered punches.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:13 pm

re: SoR2, yeah, that works when there's only one enemy on the screen. A useful trick, but not that important as far as survival.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:05 pm

Only VF4 Evo and SSFIIX (CPSII, and possibly DC) have really excellent AI.

Fortunately they're the 2 best fighters ever.

Others can be fun to play in single player, but be aware you'll get a beating from an equally-seasoned arcade player.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:43 pm

Yeah, on most fighting games it's not worth training against the AI -- I'd say even VF4 Evo's AI isn't all that good, and SSFIIX's is just cheap (aka 'psychic') in my opinion. Even so, it's not like I'm gonna get a lot of SS Tenka 2p action in my area, so for the most part it's a question of figuring out strategies against the comp. versus not playing the game at all. This applies to the majority of fighting games, actually. The only one I play with any regularity that's at all popular is 3rd Strike, and even then the majority of my fighter-playing friends would rather play Guilty Gear (not a bad game, but I don't find the gameplay particularly good compared to many SNK and Capcom games).

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:12 am

For me it's not just fighters, but any game that is based off a coin/credit principle, I just don't use continues at all.

So that's like fighters, shooters, light gun games, bemani etc...

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:16 am

it290 wrote:Yeah, on most fighting games it's not worth training against the AI -- I'd say even VF4 Evo's AI isn't all that good, and SSFIIX's is just cheap (aka 'psychic') in my opinion. Even so, it's not like I'm gonna get a lot of SS Tenka 2p action in my area, so for the most part it's a question of figuring out strategies against the comp. versus not playing the game at all. This applies to the majority of fighting games, actually. The only one I play with any regularity that's at all popular is 3rd Strike, and even then the majority of my fighter-playing friends would rather play Guilty Gear (not a bad game, but I don't find the gameplay particularly good compared to many SNK and Capcom games).

You really just need to find one really good opponent for a game like that. My roommate and I play SS IV (the pinacle of the Samurai Shodown series IMO) together a lot and have some really great matches. Its funny about computer difficulty. I've single credit cleared SS IV on the hardest setting and my roommate has a hard time clearing it on normal, but when we play each other, the matches are usually close, even though I normally win.

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:39 pm

Play fighting game like shmups?!?!

You mean playing for scores?

Playing it againest CPU, All default, try to milk every opponents, by lossing at least once; Try to use super special to KO your opponent when they got only a single hit points left?

May be we should try copy down our socre and start Hi-Scores thread at ShoRyuKen, and see how ShoRyuKen members response.

May be they would come over and start discuessing Vs. Shooters here. (a.k.a. Twinkle Star Sprite)

I haven't seen anyone playing fighting game like that on my island.

****************************

No, I rarely play fighting game.

The only fighting games I play are:

Last Blade
Melty Blood
Melty Blood ReAct

***********************

4 April is coming, how about we go over ShoRyuKen and start high score thread of Fighting games there on that day?

Ex_Mosquito · Post by **Ex_Mosquito** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:21 pm

Fighting games are all about the vs competition, not 1player scoring. For me anyway. I hate fighting games in 1player, pointless

it290 · Post by **it290** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:09 pm

You really just need to find one really good opponent for a game like that. My roommate and I play SS IV (the pinacle of the Samurai Shodown series IMO) together a lot and have some really great matches. Its funny about computer difficulty. I've single credit cleared SS IV on the hardest setting and my roommate has a hard time clearing it on normal, but when we play each other, the matches are usually close, even though I normally win.

That's true. I have one friend who's like the god of fighting games -- we can play a game he's never tried before and whoop my ass even though I've played it plenty. This happened with Real Bout 2 not too long ago. I'm trying to recruit him as a SS Tenka competitor, but unfortunately he's working graveyard shift these days so there's not much chance for competition. SSIV is a great game (it's my personal favorite of the series as well), but my SS-playing friends always want to play II or sometimes V.

zaphod · Post by **zaphod** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:27 pm

You really want a cheap and psychic AI, try Mortal Kombat II.

SOme of it's cheapness was astounding.

The most fun example of this is Scorpion's teleport move.

EVERY time you use it, the computer instantly turns around and projectiles you. the funny part is that he does this before you actually wrap around to the other side! so if you fail to wrap, because you are too close to the edge, he STILL turns away and fires, something that it's physicaly IMPOSSIBLE for a human player to do. you then spear him, uppercut, and repeat. reptile recovers too quick, bu this tears up everyone else who uses projectiles.

another funny trick is the CPU instantly reversing any throw after round 3. unless frozen/staggering. (in earlier versions, even when staggered with FINISH HIM onscreen or when frozen, the cpu would still automatically throw you instead!)

In no other game is the AI so blatant about watching your controller motions and countering perfectly.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:19 pm

But you can still oftentimes lure the AI into jumping by jumping back and then uppercut them as they jump towards you. And waiting for them to walk up so you can uppercut them still works wonders. It's easy to perfect even Kintaro by just uppercutting him as he advances (or whenever he jumps if you get the timing). And Shao Kahn is a joke since s.LK knocks him out of his dash and any other attack of his except the spear. I thought the MK3 AI was a lot more difficult.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:21 pm

Yeah, I recall how predictable the AI was on the Genesis version of MK and the 32X MK2. On both games, you could jump in with a kick, knocking the CPU down, jump back, and jump forward again with another kick. This would ALWAYS work 4 times (IIRC, may have been 3), which would knock down the CPU's lifebar by about 60%. After that it was just a matter of getting a roundhouse or two in or an uppercut, and the match would be yours. Still, it was fun trying to get a flawless in every round and fataility in every match. On MK1, I guess if you did that and completed all the bonus rounds, you would have pretty near the highest possible score.

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:30 pm

Ganelon wrote:But you can still oftentimes lure the AI into jumping by jumping back and then uppercut them as they jump towards you.

Baraka is my designated CPU killer because of this. CPU repeatedly jumping into Baraka's waiting (sharp) arms = teh win.

And Shao Kahn is a joke since s.LK knocks him out of his dash and any other attack of his except the spear.

I just ping him to death with early jump kicks. Sure, he blocks 90% of them, but he rarely gets a chance to do anything else (and eats a kick on the rare occasion he tries.)

Sundance · Post by **Sundance** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:57 am

I can 1cc 1/2 of my fighting collection and i have almost every fighter put out by Capcom, SNK and Namco. Some of the King of Fighters are a real bitch but most of the Street Fighters are old hat. I only wish i was as good w/ shmups.

Triple Lei · Post by **Triple Lei** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:13 am

I used to play like this with Street Fighter Alpha when it came out for the PlayStation. But it all had a point - I wanted to unlock and save Akuma!

Nowadays it's just Tekken 5 with my Tekken buddies. (buddy, anyway)

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:59 pm

it290 wrote:
That's true. I have one friend who's like the god of fighting games -- we can play a game he's never tried before and whoop my ass even though I've played it plenty. This happened with Real Bout 2 not too long ago. I'm trying to recruit him as a SS Tenka competitor, but unfortunately he's working graveyard shift these days so there's not much chance for competition. SSIV is a great game (it's my personal favorite of the series as well), but my SS-playing friends always want to play II or sometimes V.

Just curious, how do you like Tenka? I read about what's basically the equivalent to Samurai Shodown "grooves" but not much else (aside from the bitching about there being no blood). I was curious what the actual differences between them are, like if you used 3/4 do you get a side step and a wrap around move, etc or if they're just minor tweaks as opposed to really different fighting styles.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:05 pm

Yeah, the 3/4 styles do allow you to circle your opponent. You can also do chain combos like the CD combos if you pick the 4 style, although the combo is only 7 or 8 hits long as opposed to the 14 or whatever it was in SS4. The different styles really do change the game quite a bit -- different evasion techniques, spirit gauge charging style, super move usage, etc. I wrote a post with more detailed impressions over on the neo-geo forums, which you can find here:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... ost1821117

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:31 pm

it290 wrote:Yeah, the 3/4 styles do allow you to circle your opponent. You can also do chain combos like the CD combos if you pick the 4 style, although the combo is only 7 or 8 hits long as opposed to the 14 or whatever it was in SS4. The different styles really do change the game quite a bit -- different evasion techniques, spirit gauge charging style, super move usage, etc. I wrote a post with more detailed impressions over on the neo-geo forums, which you can find here:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... ost1821117

Thank you, sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:49 pm

Isn't that what M.O.M. is for in Guilty Gear?

For the Uneducated:
M.O.M. stands for Medal of Millionaires, it's a scoremode version of Guilty Gear where you hit your opponent and get either Medals or Healthgain Items. You only have one lifebar and it acts like survival mode.

The idea is to keep your Combo Rank up, the more combos you do, counterattacks, etc, the more medals you get, if you get enough medals/do more damage you go up a rank and the medals get bigger and are worth more.

Just don't overdo it, because it only has something like 10 ranks, and if you hit Rank 10, you can only score for so long before your put back down to rank 1 again and have to start over. Also, keeping the Rank up is tricky as it's always going down if you don't maintain a combo.

Rank 10 being something like 10,000 points per hit on the enemy.

You also get minor point bonuses for picking up Food Items to heal.

Sly Cherry Chunks · Post by **Sly Cherry Chunks** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:00 pm

When I saw the title of this thread I thought it was going to be about people hiding in the corner and constantly doing fireballs.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:37 am

I can 1CC through all the regular battles of KOF2002, but Rugal is an absolute bastard. If you try to counter his Genocide Cutter with a Ryuuga or other uppercut, you are going to get chickened by the final hits of it that were tacked on here. Each time you lose a fighter, he gets so much life back that you practically don't have a dent in him. Weak.

One thing that works in 2002 and IIRC in 2001 to some extent against the regular opponents is to abuse Robert's Gen'ei Kyaku. I've gotten a good number of perfects and saved an occasional straight with this exploit.