Raiden IV: Overkill shows up on Steam for release in Fall

[ZellSF]

The reality is that many of these type of ports to PC (which isn't a standardized platform like an arcade board or a console) are a minimal commercial effort to bring product to market - not the labor of love of a group of enthusiasts. So work is typically limited to "getting it working" rather than "getting an accurate duplication of the experience on the reference platform (Taito Type X)".

I'm also not expecting the PC Version of Eschatos to dethrone the Xbox 360 as it's reference platform. The almost hysterical expectation of "arcade accurate ports" in the Cave x Steam teaser topic is simply unreasonable for products that are being deployed to a "platform" that has no standard configuration or performance.

While it's nice to set your expectations low so you won't be disappointed, we still shouldn't express that we're satisfied when we're getting subpar products.

If we do, that's all we'll ever get.

And none of the complaints mentioned have had anything to do with PC being a nonstandard platform in any way. They're glitches in code that are common across all configurations or in my case, lack of a feature that is standardized across all configurations.

[Chacranajxy]

The reality is that many of these type of ports to PC (which isn't a standardized platform like an arcade board or a console) are a minimal commercial effort to bring product to market - not the labor of love of a group of enthusiasts. So work is typically limited to "getting it working" rather than "getting an accurate duplication of the experience on the reference platform (Taito Type X)".

I'm also not expecting the PC Version of Eschatos to dethrone the Xbox 360 as it's reference platform. The almost hysterical expectation of "arcade accurate ports" in the Cave x Steam teaser topic is simply unreasonable for products that are being deployed to a "platform" that has no standard configuration or performance.

And the basis for this is?

[HydrogLox]

or in my case, lack of a feature that is standardized across all configurations.

Raiden IV OverKill surfaced first on the PS3 which doesn't support anything beyond 1080p - why on earth would you a expect higher resolution than 1920x1080 especially when there are many consumer PCs being sold that have no capability beyond that? Because in the end ...

Quote:

So, Steam is now officially the platform of choice for all shmup fans this gen.

No, Steam is where you send stuff for a few extra yen after first releasing it as a retail product or Comiket release.

Elsewhere Gunbird/Mobile Light Force managed to sneak onto Steam without too many people noticing ... though it is probably just as well.

[Chacranajxy]

or in my case, lack of a feature that is standardized across all configurations.

Raiden IV OverKill surfaced first on the PS3 which doesn't support anything beyond 1080p - why on earth would you a expect higher resolution than 1920x1080 especially when there are many consumer PCs being sold that have no capability beyond that? Because in the end ...

Uh... you would expect it because that's how PC games tend to work.

[HydrogLox]

And the basis for this is?

Basis for what
That the same code will perform/look differently running on PCs that vary in hardware and OS configuration? The original arcade game only has to run well (enough) on its original arcade hardware - it doesn't have to match anything that came before it and often runs at the best speed that the hardware allows. Move that code to faster hardware and it will (usually) run faster - so to match the "original experience" timing code would have to be added which adds complexity. On the other hand when you move the code to a more complex operating system (even desktop versus embedded variants) then the code may not get the timing that it usually got on the original hardware - and everything "feels" different, things may slow down, even stutter even on faster hardware.

The Eschatos code was developed to run well on standardized 2005 PowerPC hardware running a second-order derivative of Windows 2000. We are now in the land of 6th generation Intel (Multi-)Core processors running Windows 7 through 10. Getting Eschatos to "run" on today's PCs is one thing - getting it to match the Xbox 360 "experience" is a whole different ballgame.

why on earth would you a expect higher resolution than 1920x1080

Uh... you would expect it because that's how PC games tend to work.

We are not talking about a game that was written from scratch for a contemporary PC. The whole idea of a "port" is that you shoehorn code from one platform into another. This was no PC rewrite, Eschatos won't be a PC rewrite and Crimzon Clover WAS written for the PC (and for the time has kept up-to-date with the ever changing PC world).

[ZellSF]

Really irrelevant. Custom resolution support is a basic feature that would to the porting team be ridiculously simple to implement. No part of PC architecture or software makes this hard to implement.

It's just MOSS being really cheap and giving us poor quality ports. We should not be thanking them for that. Nor should we accept it as how PC gaming is, because lots of other developers manage not to screw this up.

[CWM]

The reality is that many of these type of ports to PC (which isn't a standardized platform like an arcade board or a console) are a minimal commercial effort to bring product to market - not the labor of love of a group of enthusiasts. So work is typically limited to "getting it working" rather than "getting an accurate duplication of the experience on the reference platform (Taito Type X)".

I'm also not expecting the PC Version of Eschatos to dethrone the Xbox 360 as it's reference platform. The almost hysterical expectation of "arcade accurate ports" in the Cave x Steam teaser topic is simply unreasonable for products that are being deployed to a "platform" that has no standard configuration or performance.

"The developer doesn't care enough to make the port arcade-accurate" is a good enough explanation, though more of an argument against buying the game if anything. No clue what being a variable hardware platform has to do with anything, though. A great many PC games have consistent performance on machines exceeding required hardware specs, even when held to standards much higher than that of "arcade accuracy" - majority of the world's most competitive multiplayer games are PC-exclusive, after all. There's no reason for the PC version of Eschatos to be any different than the 360 version. Ditto for the mysterious Cave port.

[The Coop]

For anyone not fond of Steam, you don't have to wait for someone to crack Raiden IV if you won't to play without the DRM. Type "Smart Steam" into a Google search, and give that a try. You don't have to do anything to the game files, just run the game through the program. It's worked quite well for me thus far with other games, just make sure you read up on how to use it. It's not hard to run, you just need very specific info to enter when setting the game up.

So yeah, no cracks, and no piracy. Just a program that tricks the legit Steam game into thinking Steam's running.

[ZellSF]

It is already cracked anyway.

[DKA_Darius]

https://mega.nz/#!4cRWnZgK!tcDt7tTTLWE4 ... akw4kD0Y0o

I make a patch for fixing the music repeat problem.

just replace the old file(steam\steamapps\common\Raiden IV OverKill\rom\media\bgm)

[emphatic]

https://mega.nz/#!4cRWnZgK!tcDt7tTTLWE4 ... akw4kD0Y0o

I make a patch for fixing the music repeat problem.

just replace the old file(steam\steamapps\common\Raiden IV OverKill\rom\media\bgm)

Great!

[mdsfx]

https://mega.nz/#!4cRWnZgK!tcDt7tTTLWE4 ... akw4kD0Y0o

I make a patch for fixing the music repeat problem.

just replace the old file(steam\steamapps\common\Raiden IV OverKill\rom\media\bgm)

Talk about fast!

[The Coop]

It is already cracked anyway.

Damn, that was fast


And thanks for the BGM fix, DKA_Darius. What was the issue that caused the pause?

[ZellSF]

https://mega.nz/#!4cRWnZgK!tcDt7tTTLWE4 ... akw4kD0Y0o

I make a patch for fixing the music repeat problem.

just replace the old file(steam\steamapps\common\Raiden IV OverKill\rom\media\bgm)

My favorite approach to dealing with faulty looping in games

[Despatche]

OverKill is a tweaked version of the original. Any difficulty concessions are on purpose, and whether the game suffers is completely debatable. All you can do is split the two versions and be done with it.

Ugh. These guys should've been able to get that fixed in the three months they had before launch ESPECIALLY considering the game originally ran on not-Windows XP with music working perfectly. Someone needs to tell MOSS to fix that bullshit ASAP. And then get on with the GOG.com version.

The implication is that they completely replaced their music code. The tracks are of varying qualities, too.

Thanks for the fix!

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

From what I'm seeing here, I hope the quality of this won't be reflected in Raiden V.

[mdsfx]

To be blunt, I think some of you are being picky as hell. I understand that it is absolutely your right to be critical of the product as a consumer, but if you refuse to purchase games you are interested in every time the game/port isn't absolutely perfect, don't be surprised when this new found spark of shmups on PC, or anywhere else, fizzles out.

[drunkninja24]

To be blunt, I think some of you are being picky as hell. I understand that it is absolutely your right to be critical of the product as a consumer, but if you refuse to purchase games you are interested in every time the game/port isn't absolutely perfect, don't be surprised when this new found spark of shmups on PC, or anywhere else, fizzles out.

Yeah pretty much this, I have my nitpicks, but its still an overall great port and perfectly playable.

[Despatche]

From what I'm seeing here, I hope the quality of this won't be reflected in Raiden V.

Why would it be? OverKill is a cheap port partly by a third party (Moss did the changes and designed the new mode, this third party probably did all the actual coding), while Raiden V is the next big game. They have nothing to do with each other.

And yes, the port itself is great. The only problems I see are the music which has been fixed, and this weird moment of slowdown at the start of every game (until the first powerup carrier) that might even be exclusive to me for some odd reason (noone else has mentioned it). Slim-fucking-pickings.

[Chacranajxy]

To be blunt, I think some of you are being picky as hell. I understand that it is absolutely your right to be critical of the product as a consumer, but if you refuse to purchase games you are interested in every time the game/port isn't absolutely perfect, don't be surprised when this new found spark of shmups on PC, or anywhere else, fizzles out.

Yeah pretty much this, I have my nitpicks, but its still an overall great port and perfectly playable.

So, the real question, for me at least, is: how does it compare to the existing ports of the game? Is this the definitive home release?

[ratsflif]

I was able to get it up and running on my cab with a little finagling. I had to hook it up to an lcd to set the proper resolution and orientation first, but after that it was fine. No screen tearing issue that I've noticed. I haven't played Raiden IV in a while so I can't really say how it compares to the type x or 360 versions.

[HydrogLox]

Is this the definitive home release?

My personal opinion: Xbox 360 > PS3 > Steam (can't comment on the arcade original) - but any of them will do for a quick fix. And we would be lucky to have a PC version of "Raiden Legacy" that is as good as this PC version of "Raiden IV (OverKill)" - sadly we aren't that lucky.

[Domino]

And yes, the port itself is great. The only problems I see are the music which has been fixed, and this weird moment of slowdown at the start of every game (until the first powerup carrier) that might even be exclusive to me for some odd reason (noone else has mentioned it). Slim-fucking-pickings.

Agreed, since the music is fixed it is just more/less a straight port to PC. It's only $13 on release I mean it doesn't cost too much.

Steam is a blessing to me since I don't own a PS3/X360 and not planning to get a console anytime soon. Since the current console gen (except Wii U) are just x86/x64 PC boxes I have a good feeling it would be an easy job port the games to PC.

Also the product life on the PC market is a lot longer than consoles so I'm not shocked more games are coming to Steam.

[Despatche]

The music problem was in the PS3 version as well. The PC port is almost exactly the same as the PS3 port, and that tiny difference makes it a slightly better package. Preferring the PS3 port only makes sense with a misunderstanding of what all these ports are, which is clearly shown throughout this thread.

So, the real question, for me at least, is: how does it compare to the existing ports of the game? Is this the definitive home release?

So, Raiden IV:

-Original arcade release in 2007. Five stages with "Light" and "Original" difficulties, Original has a second loop and TLB. Fighting Thunder ME-02 Kai only.
-Xbox 360 port in 2008. Has an "Arcade Mode" that is supposed to be identical to the original arcade release, and an "Xbox 360 Mode" that adds two stages (new stage 5 and stage 6, old stage 5 is moved to stage 7) plus other changes. Raiden mkII and Fairy as DLC characters.
-NESiCA port in 2012. Only things anyone says about it are that it has playable Fairy, and that the Xbox 360 Mode, here renamed to "Perfect Mode". I'm sure there's more in the game.
-PS3 port in 2014, named "Raiden IV OverKill". Adds an "OverKill Mode" with a new scoring system, has the DLC characters playable by default, and apparently makes a number of small changes to various modes, a sort of "Black Label". For all we know, the changes were in the NESiCA version.
-PC port of OverKill in 2015. 99% identical to the original PS3 version.

That is to say, there are really only two ports of Raiden IV, and they're apparently slightly different games. Knowing about these differences only makes me want a copy of the 360 version.

[Chacranajxy]

The music problem was in the PS3 version as well. The PC port is almost exactly the same as the PS3 port, and that tiny difference makes it a slightly better package. Preferring the PS3 port only makes sense with a misunderstanding of what all these ports are, which is clearly shown throughout this thread.

So, the real question, for me at least, is: how does it compare to the existing ports of the game? Is this the definitive home release?

So, Raiden IV:

-Original arcade release in 2007. Five stages with "Light" and "Original" difficulties, Original has a second loop and TLB. Fighting Thunder ME-02 Kai only.
-Xbox 360 port in 2008. Has an "Arcade Mode" that is supposed to be identical to the original arcade release, and an "Xbox 360 Mode" that adds two stages (new stage 5 and stage 6, old stage 5 is moved to stage 7) plus other changes. Raiden mkII and Fairy as DLC characters.
-NESiCA port in 2012. Only things anyone says about it are that it has playable Fairy, and that the Xbox 360 Mode, here renamed to "Perfect Mode". I'm sure there's more in the game.
-PS3 port in 2014, named "Raiden IV OverKill". Adds an "OverKill Mode" with a new scoring system, has the DLC characters playable by default, and apparently makes a number of small changes to various modes, a sort of "Black Label". For all we know, the changes were in the NESiCA version.
-PC port of OverKill in 2015. 99% identical to the original PS3 version.

That is to say, there are really only two ports of Raiden IV, and they're apparently slightly different games. Knowing about these differences only makes me want a copy of the 360 version.

Cool, that's the kind of breakdown I was hoping for. I've got the original 360 release, but I think I'll grab the PC version to compliment it.

[BPzeBanshee]

To be blunt, I think some of you are being picky as hell. I understand that it is absolutely your right to be critical of the product as a consumer, but if you refuse to purchase games you are interested in every time the game/port isn't absolutely perfect, don't be surprised when this new found spark of shmups on PC, or anywhere else, fizzles out.

Incorrectly looping music is unprofessional, plain and simple. If a programming amateur like me can get correctly looping music in freaking Game Maker in less than five minutes in a way that supports every Windows OS in the last 10 years I don't think it's farfetched to expect MOSS with all the time/experience/resources to have basic working loop points for Windows 7 and up in the time they've had to develop it. People on this forum have nitpicked about lesser things in the past (remember Guwange with its 100,000 submenus?).

A moot point now thanks to DKA_Darius and I'll have this in my library next week I think.

[cfx]

.

[ZellSF]

To be blunt, I think some of you are being picky as hell. I understand that it is absolutely your right to be critical of the product as a consumer, but if you refuse to purchase games you are interested in every time the game/port isn't absolutely perfect, don't be surprised when this new found spark of shmups on PC, or anywhere else, fizzles out.

Expecting basic features is not the same as expecting perfection.

I'm fine with not getting a PC port of a game if it isn't an improvement in any way of the PS3 port. I'm fine with them losing the profits of the PC market if they can't pay a programmer for one hour of time to implement a basic feature. Honestly, I really really doubt their profit margins are that low. If we demand these features, it's more likely they'll implement them than give up on the PC market.

Or we can just continue lowering our standards all the time and get shittier and shittier quality software.

[coturnixx]

This game screams for TATE, i find the screen really tiny compared to let´s say Crimzon Clover (using 1280x720 in my 1280x1024 setup).

[HamidoOs]

I'm very happy to have this on my Steam account. The comfort it gives me is just what I want; always one click away from one of my favorite shmups.

But what this game needs is better video options, including V-Sync. There is screen tearing in full screen and it is annoying.