Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[nissling]

So here comes more captures. This time, pure NesRGB glory!

Spoiler

Gave my Samsung CB-21N112T a shot and compared. It doesn't have much in common with a BVM if you know what I mean...

Spoiler

[Fudoh]

I need to find the proper pinout for UVC to BNC then. Do you think I will need resistors to damper luminosity ?

definitely.

[FinalBaton]

[quote="nissling"][/quote]
It still looks nice. Shadow mask makes it very arcade-like. Is this displayed in 240p or 480p ?

[BazookaBen]

It still looks nice. Shadow mask makes it very arcade-like. Is this displayed in 240p or 480p ?

Yeah, shadow masks look cool in their own way. Definitely hearkens back to my childhood a little more since it seems like more people had that style.

[nissling]

I don't like the Samsung CRT. Shadow mask is too visible and in reality looks very soft. Colors aren't very good either (I'm using custom settings, all presets were garbage). Scanlines are unpleasing too which is noticeable in the last capture. Such a depressing image. I gave it away for free to a fellow of mine today so I had to check that it was still functional. Sad thing is that I was using this CRT for nearly five years, and my earlier one (some 28" model from Nokia) was even worse. The signal is 240p.

My parents had a Sony 26" Trinitron (some KV model I think) back in the days and it was great however.

[Xyga]

Some shadow mask tubes look great but Samsung were not known for picking quality parts for their crt tv's.
(they don't do quality anything anyway)

The nicest I've seen were all pre-digital, pre-flat era (up to the mid-90's). I remember playing on an incredible 80's model under 20"~ish, don't remember the brand, full ananlogue of course, it had the sexiest phosphors with the most natural colors I have ever seen.
None of the later digital - trinitron or not - consumer sets I've seen ever, had such a pleasant and natural picture.
Trinitrons in particular, almost feel like PC monitors in comparison.

[nissling]

(they don't do quality anything anyway)

I've used a LE52B755 for several years and wouldn't want to replace it as long as its functional. When we bought it the choice was between it and a 9G Kuro, and I haven't regret it the slightest bit. With a Framemeister along with it I'd say it's enough for me to replace my BVMs but I don't want to live without either of them.

[Xan]

I think the issue with Samsung is, while their products aren't necessarily bad by any means, they have historically tended to use shitty capacitors more so than other brands. Their PC CRTs are pretty notorious for that, from my experience, and they had some issues on flat screens too. I can understand why as a Korean company they would avoid importing Japanese caps for cost reasons but resorting to bottom-of-the-barrel garbage like CrapXon takes the penny pinching a bit too far...

[BazookaBen]

Their PC CRTs are pretty notorious for that, from my experience, and they had some issues on flat screens too.

Good to know. I have a Samsung CRT that crapped out after being unable to hold a steady picture. I figured it was something fixable so I kept it around.

[nissling]

I will admit that the PSU in my B755 did go bad after some years, but I still had warranty so the part was replaced for free. Haven't had a problem with it since.

[Xyga]

It's just that as a whole their products are often less polished and finished than Sony's if we have to compare.
It can be because of poor parts or software issues, some obvious savings here and there, rushed firmwares and stupid compatibility problems...

Check their latest 4K sets for instance (JU/JS series), all the rage on gaming forums now because of the low lag, but plagued with issues like you would have never seen on a Sony set; no 4:4:4 in game mode, PWM, video format issues that make some models unusable with some video cards, that kind of infuriating stuff.
Too bad Sony went for Android now, had they not, gamers would have never looked at the Samsungs.
Well I'm saying that but the W800B and a few other W7/8/9 models ending with a 'B' (the good ones) are surprisingly still available officially in several countries.

Anyway that's OT sorry, since we were talking about crt's, during that era Samsung were nobodies, only noticed during the 2000's with their slim-line crt's, legendary ugliest tubes with the lousiest chassis ever.
And they even sold those to other brands like Philips, Thomson, TCL. Urgh.

[Xan]

Yeah, I don't disagree at all, but you are leaving price from the equation. You can't really compare the two as Sony was always more of a premium brand, with Samsung putting out cheaper stuff. For instance, their 4K TVs apparently go for a few hundred less than Sony's low-lag 1080p sets. And by "gamer" you mean the more hardcore audience (like shmups users ) as the average guy buying a TV to game doesn't even know a thing about input lag. Heck, even some people making a living on Youtube and considering themselves hardcore gamers only slowly learn about these things now, and not through own research but user comments...

Tbh I think these late Samsung plasmas were quite the nice bargain. I would have normally avoided the brand, but this was the last chance to get a new plasma and for that price can't complain at all.

[Xyga]

Mmh...Are we looking at the same prices ?
Comparing similar size offers;

48" JS9000 is at $2000, 55" at $2400
48" JU7500 is at $1400, 50" at $1500

The Sony 50" W800B at $700 (direct from Sony, else it's a bit under $800), 55" at about $1000 still found in some stores.
And all specs and performance considered, guess which is better for either watching Blu-Ray or gaming console/PC ?

If we compare 4K offers only both brands have quite similar pricing. Sony may still have that 'premium' reputation indeed, but I think today it's more because of the actual quality that's still there, rather than the prices.

Well it doesn't matter much, people will buy 4K Samsungs for gaming anyway, even if technically it doesn't make sense.

[snoopyj]

6 Monthes has been passped, but I still want to fix the problems in my last BVM-D20F1J, Recently I purchased another BVM-D20F1J, which has 19205 Operation Hours, better than last one, but it has colour distortion on the right bottom of the screen...

In a word, I want to combine "problemetic" 2 monitors into 1 "perfect" monitor...

Finally, I've found the problem in my last 80000 hours monitor, it was the BK borad. I pulg out its BK board and insert into my new purchased 19205 hours monitor, the screen gones wave-interferenecd, same with my last shot.

BUT I have new problems, the 80000 hours monitor is get damp when it is exposed to the outdoors in a heavy rain and it cannot be turn on.

Now I have 2 options to combine the 2 monitors into 1

1. Change the BK board in my damped 80000 hours monitor. (I need know how to make damped CRT monitor live again ?)

2. Change the deguss coil in my new purchased 19205 hours monitor ( big project, I have to disassemble the complicated structred BVM moitors, maybe i can't put all parts together back ).

Which one can I choose ? some one can give me some advice ?

[bobrocks95]

6 Monthes has been passped, but I still want to fix the problems in my last BVM-D20F1J, Recently I purchased another BVM-D20F1J, which has 19205 Operation Hours, better than last one, but it has colour distortion on the right bottom of the screen...

In a word, I want to combine "problemetic" 2 monitors into 1 "perfect" monitor...

Finally, I've found the problem in my last 80000 hours monitor, it was the BK borad. I pulg out its BK board and insert into my new purchased 19205 hours monitor, the screen gones wave-interferenecd, same with my last shot.

BUT I have new problems, the 80000 hours monitor is get damp when it is exposed to the outdoors in a heavy rain and it cannot be turn on.

Now I have 2 options to combine the 2 monitors into 1

1. Change the BK board in my damped 80000 hours monitor. (I need know how to make damped CRT monitor live again ?)

2. Change the deguss coil in my new purchased 19205 hours monitor ( big project, I have to disassemble the complicated structred BVM moitors, maybe i can't put all parts together back ).

Which one can I choose ? some one can give me some advice ?

Why did you leave a professional broadcast monitor outside in the rain??? Or did you have roof troubles?
I've heard of people using a dehumidifier on CRTs that got wet, but I would assume results will greatly vary.

[brentsg]

I haven't followed scalers and such lately, but it seems DVDO has bailed on anything useful that isn't a matrix switch. I could use a Quick6, but I'm reading really sketchy reports that make it seem like it never realized the product description. An Edge would work, but I guess those got abandoned too..

They have a couple useless looking 4k scalers though..

[Xyga]

It's not even a niche market anymore.

Let's face it: it's only a matter of time before TV manufacturers get their 1080p->4K scaling right even in the eyes of home cinema enthusiasts, because it's easy.
For all I know that crowd may already be satisfied with the current 2015 TV offer's specs and features even if it's not perfect, so, what's left for external scalers manufacturers ?
Years ago Faroudja were making scaling chips for TV's and it brought something new, because other options were either shit or too expensive, I bet today everything scaling is either developped internally or bought off Chinese subcontractors, so not even that segment is open for DVDO to develop anything.

For us it's really only the XRGB's that are still worth buying, or future dedicated projects like marqs's.

[Fudoh]

DVDO's 4K scaling doesn't win any prizes. Sony's internal scaling is much better already. But then again there are probably much worse TV manufacturers out there.

Today's high end scaling market has to purposes: a) color correction (which is huge if you spend lots of money on high end projection or a $10.000 TV) and b) CIH (constant image height) and anamorphic projection - usually used on cinemascope screens.

But hey, if you need a DVDO, the 2nd hand market is huge. Nothing to worry about for the years to come.

[mookie3three]

Thought I'd post this here, instead creating a new thread.

I picked up an AV modded Master System 2 with a 50/60hz switch off a mate. I picked up Power Strike II recently, I'm not sure what HZ to play this in. Since this was a PAL only released game, would it optimised for 50hz? Should I only play Master System games at 60hz if they were released in the US and Japan as well?

Any advice please let me know.

Cheers

[kamiboy]

My understanding is that Master System games weren't optimized for shit. 50hz games just ran slower, if you play PAL games in NTSC they will run at their intended speed.

[robodude00]

DVDO's 4K scaling doesn't win any prizes. Sony's internal scaling is much better already. But then again there are probably much worse TV manufacturers out there.

Today's high end scaling market has to purposes: a) color correction (which is huge if you spend lots of money on high end projection or a $10.000 TV) and b) CIH (constant image height) and anamorphic projection - usually used on cinemascope screens.

But hey, if you need a DVDO, the 2nd hand market is huge. Nothing to worry about for the years to come.

Fudoh, what Sony LED/LCD TV of 2015 do you most recommend for retrogaming(and even current generation gaming)?

[Pasky]

DVDO's 4K scaling doesn't win any prizes. Sony's internal scaling is much better already. But then again there are probably much worse TV manufacturers out there.

Today's high end scaling market has to purposes: a) color correction (which is huge if you spend lots of money on high end projection or a $10.000 TV) and b) CIH (constant image height) and anamorphic projection - usually used on cinemascope screens.

But hey, if you need a DVDO, the 2nd hand market is huge. Nothing to worry about for the years to come.

Fudoh, what Sony LED/LCD TV of 2015 do you most recommend for retrogaming(and even current generation gaming)?

Wrong thread.

[Einzelherz]

At least point him in the right direction.

Here, Robodude

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48662

[robodude00]

At least point him in the right direction.

Here, Robodude

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48662

Thanks heaps

[DatPhosphorGlow]

Didn't notice this became a tech question thread .

Does anyone know if the "A" and/or "D" series BVMs are backwards compatible with older BVM boards?

I've read the "A" brochure and it clearly states the "A" boards are not compatible with older monitors, but are the older boards compatible with the "A" monitor?


Cheers,

Carthik

[Ed Oscuro]

I've read the "A" brochure and it clearly states the "A" boards are not compatible with older monitors, but are the older boards compatible with the "A" monitor?

No, as expected. Reference post here

To answer your other question, there's reports of some systems not working on the A models (Neo Geo got mentioned). Don't recall if this ever was denied or got sorted out, but it's something to think about - for 15KHz signals you might as well get a regular 15KHz monitor; if you need multisync support, get an arcade / true multisync monitor. These Sony monitors only support narrow ranges around certain vertical sync frequences (i.e. 15KHz and 31KHz for SD and HD content, but no 24KHz support, and perhaps imperfect 15KHz support at that).

[sixbynine]

perhaps imperfect 15KHz support at that).

I was worried about that in the beginning, but having tested it I couldn’t imagine any 15KHz monitor looking any better than my A. Maybe some look pretty much the same but I just don’t see any margin for a ›better‹ picture. But that might just be me.

/Edit. Unless we’re talking ›authenticity‹, or something. But that’s quite a subjective matter.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm not talking about looks, I'm talking about whether it will sync up the image. People have reported trouble with MVS boards on the A models.

There's some popular arcade boards that won't show an image properly even on 15KHz-only monitors.

[nimitz]

Hey guys,

I am currently working on a CRT simulation algorithm and making good progress, what I need for better simulation at this point are reference pictures. I've skimmed through the thread quickly and most of the pictures I've found were rather low resolution, so if any of you have some high resolution pictures of CRTs that would be greatly appreciated, please mention the Monitor/CRT model (or the cab it came from) if you can.

Edit: I mean pictures close enough to allow seeing individual dots.

Edit2: I noticed the thread has a lot of trinitrons, would be interesting to see arcade monitors or non trinitron stuff form the mid/late 90s

[Xyga]

This guy Epsylon has the best collection of CRT photos ever, check the url of the pics posted over there for instance; http://www.sega-board.fr/viewtopic.php? ... ed3c146a66
He's got some shadow mask tubes too, sample: http://raster.effect.free.fr/tv/photos_ ... ic_02c.jpg
Unfortunately we cannot browse his drive anymore, I'd suggest you contact him because he's really got plenty in the best quality I have ever seen.

Photos are nice but not the same as seeing the real thing in action anyway, IMHO it's the issue with CRT simulation: we can imitate the shape of still images, and the simulated result looks good on flat panels only while staying still as well (or we need much more efficient flat panels with very high HZ & acceleration).

CRT-Royale shader can already perform incradible realism...when still.