Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Ed Oscuro]

Most bosses are a joke with the right weapon. Some are a joke even without the right weapon!

Batman 2: A Choose Your Own Joke Adventure :[

A KILLING JOKE, even

Plane switching...ehh, that seems easily devolved into an exploitable gimmick like a color switching system. If it's just a get out of hits free jump move then it seems like a game would have to be substantially different to make best use of it, plus there's also issues with view obstruction (SCVIV mainly is just showing off "wow! layers and transparency!" wow!). On the other hand, I do like games with different fore and background action (Riot)

[BIL]

Batman 2: A Choose Your Own Joke Adventure :[

A KILLING JOKE, even

Aw sheeeeeeeeeeeit TEXTBOOK HUMOURS

Riot reminds me - the Saturn's Kidou Senshi Gundam has a similar thing going on, with enemies in fore/background layers and the player in the middle, fire exchanging between. Been ages since I played it, but it seemed good fun and was DEAD CHEEP even NEU, so I nabbed it for a lazy day. JoshF suggested it, always a sound endorsement in my book.

Still can't think of any sidescrolling platformers with the sort of Guardian Heroes / Fatal Fury-style "line dancing" Obi mentioned.

Also, I know this isn't the official Castlevania thread but this is A GREAT FANART



"COME 'ERE" "BWAHHHHHH"

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Out of morbid curiosity I decided to play through Dracula X earlier (both routes). Definitely a fairly disappointing game, but nothing unexpected really. Richter's movement speed is awful, something about the backflip - one of my favorite elements of Rondo - feels really off (it's probably just because it doesn't feel like it syncs up with the otherwise slow movement speed, though), and the game is just packed full of tedious stage designs (some of the spear guys in the clock tower who you have to chip to death, the segment with the crows and crumbling blocks in the standard stage 5 that force you to leave and come back if you screw up, the nonsensically strict good ending requirements...) The game just feels like a janky Rondo hack all the way through (I laugh every time I see the behemoth inexplicably explode and fall apart at the end of his chase sequence). And holy fuck at that Dracula fight - I was talking with a friend a while back about how I wasn't a fan of Rondo's final battle and he mentioned that it's at least a thousand times better than Dracula X's. When he described it, I thought it actually sounded really cool - but it's absurd just how tedious it ends up in practice.

There are little flashes of quality in there, though. The Rondo mechanics, enemy designs, and boss designs are still largely solid even if they're in a game that uses them all fairly poorly (for the most part - I have to say the first encounter with the spear guys is more interesting than any of the spear guy setups in Rondo), so it's not all bad. It has good backgrounds and some nice music arrangements too (to be expected from Castlevania, I suppose).

So with that I think I've played almost all of the Castlevania games I've been interested in, with the exception of Rebirth. I definitely want to check out Rebirth someday but for now I'm probably just going to dig into other games. I'd probably rank the linear action CV games something like...

X68000
1
Rondo of Blood
Bloodlines
3

Super

Dracula X

Although looking at that makes me think I should maybe try for a 1CC (for whatever that's worth, for relatively forgiving console games like these) in 3 - the only one of the top five games there I haven't pulled that off in yet. Except for the rough penultimate stage I can't imagine it'd be too rough, really.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Anyone could do hella worse than download and play Ninja Senki. Something of a Super Mario Bros./Mega Man hybrid, very "8-bit". Runs only windowed, but at 120 fps, according to Fraps (technically excesss on majority of displays, but it effectively masks screen tearing; the game's not v-synced). I find it difficult.
(Found it on a computer games mag cover DVD, by the way.)

[Ed Oscuro]

Riot reminds me - the Saturn's Kidou Senshi Gundam has a similar thing going on, with enemies in fore/background layers and the player in the middle, fire exchanging between. Been ages since I played it, but it seemed good fun and was DEAD CHEEP even NEU, so I nabbed it for a lazy day. JoshF suggested it, always a sound endorsement in my book.

Huh, another note in the "Gundam license games being innovative" list. It looks pretty messy but that's definitely something new. If only they could add some decent music though...those '80s standard synth anime trumpets

@ Sir Illpalazzo: I felt like the original PCE Dracula X already had a bit much of chipping away at enemies - but yes, I'd agree that DXX / DX SNES takes it to a new level, though I'm not sure why I feel that way.

The backflip actually is faster than walking normally.

A lot of the graphics are kind of neat in a '90s Image Comics-inspired, pastel palette way. But as much as I think Super CV IV has generally aged badly, visually speaking, it often attempts a lot of local variation in the use of tiles. A big part of what's wrong with DXX's visuals is that many tilesets are just used in a default way - and of the tilesets that don't look open to alteration (i.e., the sunlit white hall windows), some of these just aren't visually interesting to begin with (the wood paneled walls, which I mentioned earlier, are particularly ugly and useless here). In that sense, it seems probable that they had a smaller team putting this one together, when some graphics were apparently designed and then repeated with minimal close attention to their use within map layouts.

That said, this isn't actually very far off the typical routine in even the 16 bit generation; games that actually change map graphics often - even like a Revenge of Shinobi or E-SWAT level of local detail changes - seem to be in the minority, compared to many games that mostly repeat tile sets with minimal attention. The result is often less pleasing than even DXX. Still, that's probably swayed by games like this most often being forgotten shovelware even at the time of release.

[dojo_b]

I agree about the sometimes repetitive and/or barren backgrounds in Drac X SNES. But for me the biggest visual failure is its tendency for backgrounds to look washed-out and greyish. E.g. on Stage 6, the "black" background is much too grey; lookit the way the skeleton outlines and crow are a far more popping shade of black. The skeleton shouldn't need such a silhouette and the crows should instead be greyer to show up against darker, more vibrant backgrounds. Similarly, the worldmap is absolutely beautiful but its colors look weirdly faded, and not in an evocative sort of way.

I'm not asking for everything to pop or for the background to be as colorful as the sprites (which can distract); and a muted color palette is sometimes used appropriately in the game, e.g. in the murky swamp-caves of st4'. But often I feel like the intended colors are struggling to get through the monitor.


On a different note: anyone have action side-scrollers to recommend on Steam while the summer sale is on?

Volgarr the Viking is my main jam on Steam just now. A very thoughtfully constructed game with quite distinctive terrain/enemy arrangements, and challenges that require careful use of the hero's move-set. It can be a bit slow-paced, and the emphasis is on figuring out and rehearsing the right tactics rather than improv (there's very little randomness). I worry that it might become too easy upon repeat play, but it's no joke and I'm told there's expert levels.

Other Steam recommendations: Oniken (Vice Project Doom-like game); They Bleed Pixels (just getting into this but it seems promising: difficult platforming in a slippery, spike-riddled dreamworld, with some macabre beat-em-uping thrown into the mix). Look forward to watching some of Squire's runs after I clear it. I am a little bit annoyed by TBP's ubiquitous use of plain black walls + floors---a common indie-platformer design that is crisp and stylish enough, but ultimately can make level environments feel disposable and unmemorable (see also Electronic Super Joy, where everything's in silhouette).

Wings of Vi looks very intriguing and challenging, hope to get to it soon. I'd also like to look into some more roguelike-ish games such as Spelunky and Rogue Legacy; recommendations welcome.

Super Meat Boy is a great value on Steam. Perhaps my #1 game ever, it's also the one that brought me back into serious gaming as an adult. Maybe not the best game aesthetically, but it has gobsmacking amounts of superb acrobatic jumping action, with a hero who (for the most part) controls as well or better than Mario.

It's gotten some dislike on this forum for its bite-size challenges and dubious hardcore reputation. And it's true that its characteristic flavor of grinding practice (with infinite lives) on short hard segments is not exciting in the way that a limited-lives campaign can be; but it is still addictive, and an effective tool to build skill that lets the player focus their efforts on the parts they need to learn (much as one might use save states). The hardest levels, even though they're doable in a minute or less, actually do have a long sequence of quick but tough hazards, forcing players to struggle to get practice on the later ones.

It also cuts out a lot of the downtime of traditional games, the plodding along and easy-enemy-slaying and candle-whipping filler which, sure, can help build atmosphere and tension, but is not the main reason to play. And what I've found is that, both in Meat Boy style "hardcore" platformers and in more traditional NES fare, a tough game only really shines long after you clear it for the first time, when you've already put in the practice and have enough skill to aim for low-death runs. At that point the difference between formats is lessened and Meat Boy can have a similar sense of being on a tense, exciting campaign, but with an exceptional density of skilled action segments that is really satisfying.

I really do wish there were a limited-lives option (choose between 1000 lives to start, or 100, or 10, or 1; and with some 1ups thrown in). That would motivate me to get more skilled at worlds where the no-death achievement is out of my reach. (My best no-deaths are in Hell on light-world, and Hospital + The End on Dark World.) Of course one could also design one's own rules for a run to add tension and a sense of achievement.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I really do wish there were a limited-lives option (choose between 1000 lives to start, or 100, or 10, or 1; and with some 1ups thrown in). That would motivate me to get more skilled at worlds where the no-death achievement is out of my reach. (My best no-deaths are in Hell on light-world, and Hospital + The End on Dark World.) Of course one could also design one's own rules for a run to add tension and a sense of achievement.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who considers lack of such an option a flaw in "retro" games. Once-arcade ones are the worst when they do it. The devs porting games from the arcades before PS2 or so used to know that; it's the PS2 Cave ports that about every mildly interested gamer shall see through first time they play it, only to never touch again.

Kudos to the makers of Gunlord for taking it into consideration.

Ninja Senki is an oddball in this regard. Not only all points seem to vanish when you die (not even continue), but continuing costs some of those points (I think). It effectively plays like a game with unlimited continues, at least early on, but then again - it's pretty hard (advertised as such too, and the guy means it).

I've yet still to play Super Meat Boy. Could its hook possibly be the same as time-attacking Burnout 2 or Moto Racer (perpetually chasing your own ghost)? I know all too well how compulsive that can be.

[dojo_b]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who considers lack of such an option a flaw in "retro" games.

Perhaps the worry is that if a limited-lives option is offered, the default of infinite lives will start to feel a bit sad, and a bit like cheating.
But a typical player will need 100s or 1000s of deaths the first time, and on that first playthrough the game is frustrating enough without worrying about lives.

And no, there's no ghost-chasing in Super Meat Boy---although you do get to watch all of your ghosts at once after beating a level, which is fun.

One thing I like about the game is that, even though it's quite popular with speedrunners, it was clearly designed to make playing for survival a fully satisfying experience. I've always enjoyed the total clarity of survival-oriented play; it's just a personal preference, but I don't go in for speedrunning or maxing out points, extravagant style combos, etc. When indie game devs cater too much to those pursuits I feel that they tend to skimp on the elements that make a basic clear satisfying. For example, They Bleed Pixels looks to be a little light on its quantity and variety of content, but seems to be trying to compensate for that by giving me a grade "D" after every level and goading me to play it again with more flair. It's true I'm a scrub, but I would rather change that by playing more fresh content, thank you. (And if you want me to learn the advanced combat techniques, give me a monster that requires them. Well I'm not done yet, so we'll see.)

It is at least suitably hard to beat the levels in TBP. Dustforce is a more extreme case, a very promising platformer that I ultimately felt was designed just for speedrunners and style mavens, without enough death traps for fun survival play on the levels I sampled.

I think the "hook" for Meat Boy is simply that he's an incredibly mobile little guy who's a joy to handle (running, jumping, and sliding on/jumping off walls). And he's plunged into a huge range of deadly environments that give wonderful tests of his abilities. Meat Boy has no attack, so it's even more of a pure platformer than Mario (hop 'n bop minus the bop). Also, the quite small player-character size onscreen, combined with his great mobility, means the player can take in and interact with a large and complex field of play at any given moment; I think this is a big part of why the levels are diverse, challenging, and fun.

[BIL]

XX's backflip input definitely feels a bit off to me, too. Specifically the height select - the window to get the latest, highest flip seems less forgiving than in Rondo. Playing them back to back, it's like the timescale for low -> high -> late got compressed in XX.

It wouldn't have helped the design decisions elsewhere, but if XX had just copy/pasted in Rondo's engine it'd immediately go from "okay, but..." to a straight okay in my book. I do like how you can dampen the momentum of a leap in XX by hitting "jump" a second time, though it's no substitute for the audacity Rondo allows in backflipping out of a retreating jump.

Recorded a quick and dirty FC Dracula 2-ALL no miss. Thought I'd record one now that I understand WTF is going on in loop 2 stage 4. Previously I was just blindly mashing stopwatch through the raft sections. Basically, while the stage's rafts are on global timers, the fishman spawn points have zones of activation. Enter one, and *pop* goes the fishman a moment later. In the first loop they're designed to miss an advancing player, in the second the direct opposite. If you know how long to wait for a raft, or where to stand on one, you can restore some sanity and avoid getting instakilled.

Although making it through without relying on the stopwatch (and possibly having to fight Franky M & Igor with a knife*) requires total rehearsal, it's still a pretty fun sequence to nail. Very intense, and short. Would be utterly inappropriate for the first loop, but as an optional second loop's challenge it feels ok.

edit: *not that there's anything wrong with that ;3

Franky+Igor & Death need some sort of oscar for awersome sidescrolling action bosses. The latter especially, what a mixup game. Random hoverings between summoning randomly placed sickles, which individually activate at random times. Still, there's a clear rhythm to the fight between zoning Death and clearing his projectiles, and with the sickles uniformly targeting Simon's position it's always possible to manipulate even the nastiest RNG to your advantage.

Almost feels like fighting a trap character in a fighting game, ala Testament. I'm used to thinking of Ninja Gaiden as the more flexible GGXX to Dracula's punishingly disciplined ST, but in terms of bosses it's almost the opposite. ("almost" because outside of BIG J there isn't much boss content to speak of in NG... though thematically I do like Malth's depiction of a seasoned master getting hacked down by sheer enraged rookie willpower. Provided you don't use JS! *BZZZRRRZ*)

[dojo_b]

Very impressive BIL! Was the switch to axe on st4, first loop accidental? Didn't seem of major concern---cool to see just how effectively rapid axe can pin Igor down while also keeping the big guy under fire.

I don't recall having such a clear two-phase rhythm to my fights with Death (although I'm sure it's a good approach). I approached it as mostly putting out fires with the cross and hoping for plenty of incidental boss hits, while interjecting a cross in his direction whenever the sickles were at bay. Definitely a great fight---strongly inviting of claustrophobic panic thanks to the small fighting space; Simon's own limited mobility; hazards in every direction; and all the uncertainty pumped in by the RNGs.

Looking back on time well spent with CV1, I think the game's main flaw is that the bosses don't hit the sweet spot of difficulty. They are either too easy or too hard, but in the latter case become too easy with the right maxed-out subweapon. But this of course feels cheap. Is there anyone who can reliably beat Death with whip alone? (I'm haunted by the fact that the prg0 release version of this game would often crash on Death with a triple-shot sub, due to the high sprite-count. Does this mean the developers intended us to fight him at low power?)


Meanwhile, I one-lifed Rondo of Blood on PCE-CD (as well as its PSP remake Dracula X Chronicles). By the standard stage paths, bad ending. Rondo seems a textbook side-scroller, great fun with no serious flaws I can see except the slight walking-speed issue. I really like the format---short-to-medium length game, but with various alternate routes that are "secret" but not so hard to find.

[s]The overpowered double/triple shot powerups have been removed (now you automatically have something similar to a double on some weapons)[/s] (wrong, see BIL's comments!), although the mighty magic-book subweapon, which I used heavily, arguably takes its place.

The Death fight, in which sickles appear one at a time (but do increase in frequency), is only of middling difficulty this time. I go for the cross and have gotten pretty reliable. He doesn't hold the same quasi-mythic status as CV1's Death in my mind, but still I'd say Rondo has perfected the overall recipe (moving further in a direction CV3 started): it keeps the chaotic sickle-fending improv while giving the player a bit more mobility and room to maneuver, and also gives Death new phases to vary things up and create a narrative arc. Oh and, for good measure, let's make it all go down on a fuckin' pirate ship.

I got to 1CC skill just in the course of repeat playing for fun---there are plenty of points-based 1ups to go around. 1LC was a lot harder; the st6 boss rush, particularly Shaft, and st7 boss Shaft's Ghost, are where I struggled most. The latter's bat minions, who are invulnerable while spawning and fly straight for you in the midst of other on-screen action, are perhaps the nastiest boss projectiles of this game. The action in both these fights are a little bit adaptive (tracking the player's actions), and a little bit random---a good recipe for difficulty. As in other games, one good way to learn the ropes with these bosses is to stop attacking and just focus on defense first.

Earlier bosses such as the werewolf, minotaur, and headless knight use a more superficial kind of randomness in which they repeatedly choose an attack at random from their repertoire. (Some bosses also add desperation attacks when their health is low.) Their attacks are always telegraphed by a wind-up of some sort, so one's goal becomes to learn these cues and how to react to each. One does have to pay attention, but the situation stays simple and a single-pointed focus is usually enough. They're not really improvisatory in the sense of Death's fight. I guess I prefer them overall to your more classic boss fight that's entirely scripted, but they're not the pinnacle either.

Drac X Chronicles is certainly worthwhile if you have a PSP. A few enemies' vicious attacks have been slowed down in this version (e.g. the werewolf), and it's probably an easier game overall, but still is recognizable as Rondo. A few parts were actually tightened up, e.g. the giant skeleton and purple skulls in st3 seem a bit quicker this time around, and I seemed to have more trouble on the st7 bat-bridge. I was skeptical of the new graphics at first, and the 3D cutscenes still don't do much for me, but there are some really nice 2D background environments.

My overall feeling with side-scrollers is that visual clarity always trumps impressiveness or realism, especially for character/enemy sprites. See Donkey Kong Country as a cautionary example---I quite prefer Mario games. The same applies here: rendering Simon in 3D and giving him smooth but distracting little clothing animations makes him a bit less clear as a screen presence. But there are a lot of enemies done well, and one does adjust to the new look/feel. I like Drac X Chronicles and wouldn't cling to the old graphics just for the sake of retroness.

[Herr Schatten]

Anyone could do hella worse than download and play Ninja Senki. Something of a Super Mario Bros./Mega Man hybrid, very "8-bit". Runs only windowed, but at 120 fps, according to Fraps (technically excesss on majority of displays, but it effectively masks screen tearing; the game's not v-synced). I find it difficult.
(Found it on a computer games mag cover DVD, by the way.)

It's really nice, although it makes me wish (not for the first time) that people who want their games to look 'retro', instead of going out of their way to imitate the NES's garish palette instead turned to machines like the MSX2 or the Sega Master System.

[BIL]

Very impressive BIL! Was the switch to axe on st4, first loop accidental? Didn't seem of major concern---cool to see just how effectively rapid axe can pin Igor down while also keeping the big guy under fire.

Intentional, I wanted to give Franky a good run - unfortunately I got nervous and ended up splattering him. After going to all that trouble procuring an axe from the fleamen and multipliers from the dragons!

As for loop 2, after surviving the nightmare of the catacombs it's total war as far as I'm concerned. Didn't even look at Franky as he burned. Still didn't cheese Death though, I'm actually comfier taking the cross into that fight (as bizarre as that is, given Firebomb x3 all but insta-kills him). I just really like the cross's rebound action, tbh. It's the stoical Dracula equivalent of NG's windmill star.

I think Axe x2 is the coolest matchup for Franky, and Cross x2 for Death. The latter especially is one of my favourite sidescroller boss battles, with the deadly emphasis on spacing and quick adaptation. Very FG-esque.

I don't recall having such a clear two-phase rhythm to my fights with Death (although I'm sure it's a good approach). I approached it as mostly putting out fires with the cross and hoping for plenty of incidental boss hits, while interjecting a cross in his direction whenever the sickles were at bay.

Oh yeah, you definitely don't want to exclusively focus on Death or his sickles; there isn't time. His phasing is simply a useful way to judge your next move. EG, if he's in flight with all his sickles at safe distance, that's probably a good time to aggressively pursue and take a chunk of his HP. If you're on the evasive and he's about to call in fresh sickles, it's a bad idea to commit to a jump or a corner.

Is there anyone who can reliably beat Death with whip alone? (I'm haunted by the fact that the prg0 release version of this game would often crash on Death with a triple-shot sub, due to the high sprite-count. Does this mean the developers intended us to fight him at low power?)

AFAIK, the NES's PRG0 glitches aren't present in the game's original Famicom Disk System release - news to me if they were.

It's definitely possible to get consistent at no-subweapon Death, though as with Franky it's a hard slog. Brings out the central principles of each fight. Don't dodge Igor, stun and go through him. And don't run yourself into a corner chasing (or fleeing) sickles - note when they spawn and try to draw them to your advantage. I'm not sure if there's a cap on them... I should've figured out by now, really, but I like to take my time with these things. :3

It does feel like you're meant to have a sidearm handy to balance out Igor and sickles, respectively. To be honest, a whip-only 1-ALL probably wouldn't be that much harder than the knife-only one. Either way, the lack of a piercing projectile that'll let you nullify the boss's "familiars" while inflicting damage really bites.

The overpowered double/triple shot powerups have been removed (now you automatically have something similar to a double on some weapons), although the mighty magic-book subweapon, which I used heavily, arguably takes its place.

In both Rondo and XX, multiplier is actually determined by your ammo stock. 20+ hearts gets x2, 30+ and up gets x3. Puts an emphasis on going without bombing, I guess.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Is there any source detailing differences between various Green Beret/Rush'n Attack versions? GBA port seems graphically faithful and feature-wise enhanced (jump button, co-op, extra levels), but I wonder if stage design, A.I. collision intricacies etc. are all the same. Basically, any quirk of any version that would make it stand out interests me.

[BrianC]

Is there any source detailing differences between various Green Beret/Rush'n Attack versions? GBA port seems graphically faithful and feature-wise enhanced (jump button, co-op, extra levels), but I wonder if stage design, A.I. collision intricacies etc. are all the same. Basically, any quirk of any version that would make it stand out interests me.

Arcade game seems to be faster and has slightly more enemies on screen at once.

[Squire Grooktook]

Been diving into Alisia Dragoon a bit more lately.

I have to say I don't really mind the stiff controls too much, it kinda fits the methodical wizard sidescroller playstyle. Your main defensive tools often seem to be "duck and over" or "zap it before it gets to you". Definitely not a high speed dodging game, but that works.

Some of the stages feel a bit slow paced though. The cave with the tanky rock monsters blocking your path is especially irritating.

Otherwise I enjoy it a lot. Lightning countering enemy formations and attacks while managing it's usage is super fun, and the presentation is great.

[BIL]

Ah, Alisia-chan. ¦3 Interested to hear what you think of stage 6-1. >_> Maybe it's just me... with my hatred of 2D camera issues it's Pet Peeves II: The Peevening. Enemies offscreen be shooting! I like mostly everything up to and after that though. Those rock enemies are a pain, I like to soften them up with a birdy bomb, then a full-power blast (from a jump, gravity quickly returning me behind cover to avoid suicide bullets).

Overall, I file Alisia Dragoon with Holy Diver in not only the wizard sidescrolling subgenre, but also the eternally vexing "good, would've been great with decent controls, WTF playtesters" box. Actually it's more akin to Raf World - HD's control is outright defective, while AD is merely lumbered by laggy "cinematic" handling. Exactly what I don't want in a game full of fast aimed bullets and swarming enemies. With danger inbound I expect a turning character to haul ass outta there, not chunkily about-face like it's Prince of Persia. On Normal you can soak up plenty of flak, unsatisfying as that is... on Hard, bullets will kill you and your critters dead, mandating a stiffly evasive approach I find unnatural. (an Alien Soldier/Taromaru-style burst shield would've offset this nicely)

The limited mobility does generally fit the level design, and the superb offensive suite. Stage 3's opening is a highlight. Dodging the turrets' shots is a fool's errand - get in their blind spots and let the weapon do the rest. Elsewhere you get cover to hide behind while sending familiars on kill runs and fending off the occasional encroacher. And swarmier zako can be roasted en masse, leaving few if any shots onscreen. But it sucks that where a simple lateral scoot should suffice ("whoa, mr. cave gopher's a bit close there!"), elaborate workarounds are needed. Jumping, then retreating is instant so do that instead... but only use minimal or max height jumps, medium will cause landing delay! -_- So much noise. I know you're meant to methodically take down enemies while keeping your glass cannon mage out of harm's way, and it mostly works, but it overshot the mark.

I do like all of these games, of course (it's why I can't STFU about 'em ;3 ). I just hate seeing outstanding material blighted by issues that shouldn't exist post-1986. Going back to Dracula/Ryukenden and having an instantly-responsive character who stays rooted to the screen center can feel like ditching a ton of bricks, sometimes.

[Perikles]

Since you're mentioning Raf World: am I delusional or are there instances where inputs simply won't register? I remember cursing vividly at the sections where bricks fall down and the asthenic hero would just embrace his fate and fall to his gruesome death despite being ordered to jump. I couldn't quite work out why it would register splendidly sometimes and not at all at other times. Is it because the ground is changing? Does one have to jump as early as possible?

[soprano1]

BIL, awesome replay you just posted. What's funny is that when i read the title of the video, this guy came to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reqF_HYDdO4

[BIL]

Since you're mentioning Raf World: am I delusional or are there instances where inputs simply won't register? I remember cursing vividly at the sections where bricks fall down and the asthenic hero would just embrace his fate and fall to his gruesome death despite being ordered to jump. I couldn't quite work out why it would register splendidly sometimes and not at all at other times. Is it because the ground is changing? Does one have to jump as early as possible?

RW has some weird, weird things going on its controls. Try holding [up/forward] during a running jump, and enjoy run_speed+1 when you land! (essential speedrunning trick) Or, hold [up/back] for the smoothest 8-bit moonwalk ever. I don't remember it outright eating inputs ala Holy "EAT DEM UP YUM YUM" Diver, but I could easily be wrong. Under normal circumstances, it's still a handful to keep under control. Much like in Alisia Dragoon, there are some things you simply learn not to do with bullets incoming - specifically, going from lying prone to standing. Just hit [jump] from the ground, lest the overly elaborate "getting up" animation snare you.

Makes a man beg for Contra. Or VAMPIRE KILLER which does fancy-pants animations RITE (there's a turnaround frame! the character moves during! amazing!)

BIL, awesome replay you just posted. What's funny is that when i read the title of the video, this guy came to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reqF_HYDdO4

Haha, thanks. It was taking all afternoon to process so I left it running, didn't realise it'd used the raw video filename. Been messing about with Alien Soldier the last couple weeks. Definitely my favourite MD game. Possibly. Probably. I rove it. Lots of mistakes big and small in that run but eh, it's about the rove. The towering summit of 1337 speed/spectacle play occupied by MrMonkeyMans and Hebos will wait for us mortals.

Superhard ALL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GHAkwrg7QE (audio fixed)

...this game's sense of humour is totally underrated. I always assumed the security mech right before the plane was some kind of calculated ambush. It's actually just angry because you tripped the metal detector. I love the scenario of a vengeful beastman slaughtering his terrorist kin in hot pursuit of detested enemy XI-TIGER, only to run afoul of airport security! So unfortunate. I got a plane to catch, you ED209 prick! Drop the weapon? I AM THE MOTHERFUCKING WEAPON

Hiroshi Iuchi did an excellent job on the backdrops - no surprise Taromaru excels similarly. Act 1 has a brilliant sharp contrast of mundanity and wild creature designs. It's a beastman gang war in a frickin airport. Fuel yard, concourse, boarding lounge, customs, baggage check... I'd not even noticed the spectators shadowed at safe distance during the Madame Babar fight. I used to unthinkingly perceive act 2 as a sewer, HELL NO it's an artificial marine ecosystem and that boat is simply equipment. You can even eat the fish if you're in bad shape! Notice the falling pollen becomes an active element during Gusthead, visually signalling the wind direction. Speaking of, crouch for better wind resistance. There's a lot of fine-brush TLC in a game so ferociously paced.

edit: CRUMBZ, I forgot the audio. BOOF! fixed.

[EmperorIng]

For fun I played some Super Ninja-kun for SFC. I suppose I should say for "fun" because with Jaleco "fun" is the best you can hope for.

It's... not bad? That's good by Jaleco standards. I didn't feel anything special about it, despite having nice sprites and graphics. Bopping on enemies to stun them, and shuriken-throwing, with some different weapons and magic to spice things up... It's about as exciting as oatmeal but I can see someone finishing it in a case of curiosity/"Eh, why not?"

The most mystifying thing about the game is the music. A thirty-second loop? For everything in the game? I had to google to know if there was some sort of programming error, dummied-out soundtrack, or some explanation as to why this game has one music track for all the levels.

I did discover that there are two options in the options menu: one for the endless loop (the default!!!!) and one for a normal soundtrack. Why!? Who on earth made that decision? It's positively mind-boggling; Jaleco defies any attempt at explanation.

===

I am also playing some (allegedly?) better games courtesy of Namco Museum: Genpei Toumaden and Dragon Buster.

The more I figure out Genpei Toumaden the more I come to like it. It's a very strange game that makes perhaps a bad first impression with its weird movement, jumping, and swordfighting, but there is a distinct quality about the game that's hard to ignore.

I think the biggest hurdle is the swordfighting, which will feel unresponsive and clumsy. It has taken both listening to people who have cleared the game, as well as watching an expert replay (courtesy of Replay Burners - great channel!) to start to figure things out. The game wants you to carefully position yourself and hit at the right time to see the enemy health-bars deplete into nothing; swinging wildly will result in a broken sword (ie, you're screwed) and death (also screwed; continues lose your money and items which are required to beat the game).

I'm surprised at how much I am enjoying Dragon Buster - good first impression! Though being flung around the screen by some assholish wizard's floating swords strikes me as a little unfair (Namco was in to air-juggling long before Tekken, it seems).

[trap15]

For fun I played some Super Ninja-kun for SFC. I suppose I should say for "fun" because with Jaleco "fun" is the best you can hope for.

Play Ninja-kun 2: Ashura no Shou [ARC]. Far superior to Super Ninja-kun in pretty much every way, and loads of fun.

[copy-paster]

Been attempting to 1LCing Super C, and yeah stage 4 boss still fucking me . Also does the second loop max the rank like the first game?

[BIL]

The NES/FC port? As far as I know, it doesn't actually loop up at all. In the first game's port, each loop gradually raises the limit of runners onscreen. Super seems to be maxed from the start, but since its runners can't shoot and there's little platforming to complicate their movement, they're unfortunately ineffectual. I've looped the hell out of the FC and NES versions with no perceptible change.

Think I'll record PEA SHOOTIN' II: MO PEAS, MO PROBLEMS. For the fourth boss, besides carving out safespots you need to keep track of the laser timer. Regardless of how many turrets remain intact, the firing sequence doesn't change. It's possible to get caught off-guard if you're not moving according to the "schedule."

[BrianC]

Play Ninja-kun 2: Ashura no Shou [ARC]. Far superior to Super Ninja-kun in pretty much every way, and loads of fun.

Too bad the FC version looks cheap compared to the AC version (in more ways than one).

[trap15]

Yeah, the FC version is pretty poor in comparison to the ARC one, mostly the low framerate and high amounts of flicker and dropped inputs.

[Kino]

The more I figure out Genpei Toumaden the more I come to like it. It's a very strange game that makes perhaps a bad first impression with its weird movement, jumping, and swordfighting, but there is a distinct quality about the game that's hard to ignore.

More people need to play this gem (preferably the X68000 & PS1 ports,) there's truly nothing else like it.

That is all.

[evil_ash_xero]

How would you guys compare the PC CD version of Double Dragon II, to the NES version? I'm playing the NES version now, and I like it better than I thought I would.

[BIL]

NES DDII is great, FC DDII is even better. NES "Supreme Master" is only "Normal" on FC. The highest FC difficulty has much fiercer AI, which also makes the knee less overpowering.

I've never tried the PCE version but from videos, I wasn't too interested. Looked and sounded a bit goofy, and in particular seemed to lose the short, dangerous stages I enjoy in the FC version.

Genpei Toumaden's one of those games I've yet to really understand, but am always glad to have around (via Namco Museum Vol.4). Speaking of PCE arcade pseudo-ports, anyone a fan (or not) of Samurai Ghost? Haven't so much as Youtubed that one, myself.

[evil_ash_xero]

NES DDII is great, FC DDII is even better. NES "Supreme Master" is only "Normal" on FC. The highest FC difficulty has much fiercer AI, which also makes the knee less overpowering.

I've never tried the PCE version but from videos, I wasn't too interested. Looked and sounded a bit goofy, and in particular seemed to lose the short, dangerous stages I enjoy in the FC version.

Genpei Toumaden's one of those games I've yet to really understand, but am always glad to have around (via Namco Museum Vol.4). Speaking of PCE arcade pseudo-ports, anyone a fan (or not) of Samurai Ghost? Haven't so much as Youtubed that one, myself.

Yeah, I'm actually playing the PC Engine version now, and it does look a bit goofy. And the first stage's music has some really awkward screams and scratching in it.

I'll check out the FC version out. I was really bad at this, as a kid, so I'll try and kick the easier version's ass.

[Kino]

Speaking of PCE arcade pseudo-ports, anyone a fan (or not) of Samurai Ghost? Haven't so much as Youtubed that one, myself.

It's among the better HuCard sidescrollers, to be sure. Doesn't keep me coming back for seconds like its predecessor does, though. Once you get a hang of parrying and counterattacking, the game becomes utterly trivial. I cleared it on my second playthrough; to contrast, Genpei Toumaden took me weeks (and that was after I looked up a replay )

Apart from the noticeable drop in difficulty, it also lacks the creative spirit of the original Genpei. I know some people have trouble coming to terms with its cryptic nature and peculiar design choices, but for me, that's part of what makes Genpei so memorable. The non-linear structure, the crushing difficulty, the genre-hopping, the complete disregard for established conventions, the atmospheric soundtrack (quite possibly Namco's finest)... I'll take all that over SG's polished up swordplay any day of the week.