XRGB-mini (framemeister) and SNES woes

Thirst · Post by **Thirst** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:46 am

Hi!

I'm struggling to get picture with the XRGB-mini and a SNES. I understand that there's a few models that have issues with the SNES but I'm not certain which mine is and to complicate matters further it appears to be region modded - pushing reset throws the image into 60hz as well. The exterior looks like a NTSC US SNES though so I assume it's got that type of video output. I do get picture with my RGB cable that is marked as PAL though - I opened it up and it has resistors on it so that seems right - when I run the picture straight to the TV without the framemeister. For connecting EUR RGB cables I have an adapter that I believe I got from retro_gaming_accessories off of ebay a year or two ago. It piggybacks off the power supply from the framemeister to strip sync as well as rewires the video for the JP21 input on the framemeister I believe.

Recently I picked up both a cable for my RGB modded NTSC N64 with sync on luma and a NTSC RGB cable for the SNES with CSYNC, figuring that maybe a NTSC cable would do the trick instead. Both have JP21 wiring so that I can use the original RGB input cable for the framemeister. The N64 cable works perfectly for the N64 with no issues, and I get a vague dark hint of an image when I use it on the SNES but too dark to play by, even with A/D cranked up to full. The NTSC SNES RGB cable only gives sound, just like all the other cables.

I'm not sure if my issue is a cabling one, or if my model of SNES or the region mod on it completely breaks compability with the framemeister, but I'd appreciate any advice you guys can give. I considered that I might have damaged the port at some point with all my cable switching but that seems unlikely since my PS1, RGB modded famicom (with PAL RGB cable) and N64 work just fine. I've attached images of the console and cables below. Hopefully that might help.

http://imgur.com/a/7oBZ0

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:47 pm

You didn't say what your problem was when using the PAL RGB cable on the Mini.

Your SNES only works with ONE type of cable. If the PAL RGB cable (with resistors) works on your TV, then you need to stick to that cable. The NTSC cable won't work on your SNES unit.

Thirst · Post by **Thirst** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:50 pm

Fudoh: I'm sorry, I was unclear. I get no picture whatsoever with the PAL RGB cable on the mini. I do get sound, but the mini shows "no signal" on the RGB input.

I should also mention that I updated the firmware on the framemeister last week so the firmware should be up to date. I recall reading that earlier firmware versions didn't take well to PAL consoles.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:01 pm

If your EU Scart to MiniDIN adapter with sync stripper works fine with other systems (e.g. your PS1), then it might be a ground problem. If the grounds don't properly connect from the source to the Mini, you can end up wit no picture at all - just as you do right now.

You can check this easily by opening the cable (as you did already) and check what pins have a ground connections and if the same ones are connected to ground on your Scart to MiniDIN adapter.

Thirst · Post by **Thirst** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:07 pm

I'll crack it open and have a look, but I use the same cable with the famicom and that works just fine, wouldn't I have the same problem on both consoles if the ground wasn't connected?

EDIT: http://i.imgur.com/xXZi2YA.jpg Looks like it's not grounded. Ground is supposed to be connected to the metal shell right? I apologize for my electronics illiteracy.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:32 pm

that looks alright. Yellow is your ground cable. Runs to audio ground and from there (black) to Pin 18. Video ground (pin 17) is not connected though. Now check your adapter cable to see which of these are properly forwarded.

Thirst · Post by **Thirst** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:52 pm

I had a look but whoever built the cable decided to cake the whole inside in some type of black glue, so it's not really possible to see what goes where: http://i.imgur.com/klK0rDY.jpg

Maybe I should pick up one of these with a JP21 termination, bypass the adapter and hope that the adapter was the issue? https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/gam ... d-for-sale

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:13 pm

I'm not a fan of Mini adapters with sync processing (not unless you really need it), so I guess a JP21 "PAL" cable to use with the original adapter would be a good choice.

Thirst · Post by **Thirst** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:16 pm

I missed saying it last time, but thank you for the help Fudoh.

I picked up the cable linked above with JP21 termination and sync on Luma, and now I get picture from the SNES. The picture does have a bit of blur to it though. Could that be my framemeister settings or more probable, the SNES itself? I don't notice this blur on my famicom.

(the rings don't show up in real life, but the edge blur on the pixels is there)

blizzz · Post by **blizzz** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:13 pm

The blur is normal for SNES consoles, only the 1CHIP motherboard revisions have a sharper picture. Yours is a CPU-01.

desram · Post by **desram** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:40 am

For reference, this is what I'm getting with a SNES 1CHIP-03->CSYNC cable->XRGB mini->Vizio 60" E-Series.

(Full Size:http://i.imgur.com/JMGXClH.jpg)

RGB32E · Post by **RGB32E** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:20 am

Don't mind if I do... Couldn't get a pic without moiré.

Take 2:

I think I changed my text color to gray, so that accounts for part of the color difference.

Thirst · Post by **Thirst** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:50 am

Thanks for the info! I will keep my eye out for a 1-chip.

RGB32E: Also running a 1-chip I assume? Looks pretty sharp there.

RGB32E · Post by **RGB32E** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:16 pm

Thirst wrote:Thanks for the info! I will keep my eye out for a 1-chip.

RGB32E: Also running a 1-chip I assume? Looks pretty sharp there.

Yeah, it's my 1CHIP-01.

desram · Post by **desram** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:50 pm

...Looks like I should probably rethink my brightness there

FBX · Post by **FBX** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:09 pm

Here's mine:

airs · Post by **airs** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:58 pm

FBX wrote:Here's mine:

Axe murderer.

FBX · Post by **FBX** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:20 pm

airs wrote:
FBX wrote:Here's mine:
Axe murderer.

You're thinking of Patrick Bateman. That's Paul Allen's card. It even has a watermark.

desram · Post by **desram** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:30 pm

..Is there a thread anywhere about dealing with the sort of noise that A/D level has an effect on? It's making me nuts, feels like it might be worse than everyone else is experiencing. Basically anything dark blue/green or gray is pretty bad. Seems like it's more on one side. Any system I try.

FBX · Post by **FBX** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:55 pm

desram wrote:..Is there a thread anywhere about dealing with the sort of noise that A/D level has an effect on? It's making me nuts, feels like it might be worse than everyone else is experiencing. Basically anything dark blue/green or gray is pretty bad. Seems like it's more on one side. Any system I try.

Supposedly you can snag an out-of-production power supply that goes for about $300+ now that get rid of most of the noise. Short of that, all you can do is fiddle with the black level, the gamma, the brightness, and the A/D to try and reduce the effect. For me, gamma and black level have the most effect.

desram · Post by **desram** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:11 pm

If you do end up with a 1CHIP-03, keep in mind there is a small modification you will need to make to get CSYNC on it. There's a guide on retroRGB.

Chocograph · Post by **Chocograph** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:21 am

FBX wrote:
desram wrote:..Is there a thread anywhere about dealing with the sort of noise that A/D level has an effect on? It's making me nuts, feels like it might be worse than everyone else is experiencing. Basically anything dark blue/green or gray is pretty bad. Seems like it's more on one side. Any system I try.
Supposedly you can snag an out-of-production power supply that goes for about $300+ now that get rid of most of the noise. Short of that, all you can do is fiddle with the black level, the gamma, the brightness, and the A/D to try and reduce the effect. For me, gamma and black level have the most effect.

Do you have any links or pictures of that power supply? This is news to me.

FBX · Post by **FBX** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:44 am

Chocograph wrote:
FBX wrote:
desram wrote:..Is there a thread anywhere about dealing with the sort of noise that A/D level has an effect on? It's making me nuts, feels like it might be worse than everyone else is experiencing. Basically anything dark blue/green or gray is pretty bad. Seems like it's more on one side. Any system I try.
Supposedly you can snag an out-of-production power supply that goes for about $300+ now that get rid of most of the noise. Short of that, all you can do is fiddle with the black level, the gamma, the brightness, and the A/D to try and reduce the effect. For me, gamma and black level have the most effect.
Do you have any links or pictures of that power supply? This is news to me.

I don't recall the exact model, but the guy said he got for really cheap when it was new, but I got discouraged when I saw it goes for $300+ now. I wanted to find out if it really did help because a friend of mine had already tried various more 'pure' power supplies, and nothing helped. He said it was 'bad coefficients' used in the A/D process, thus power supply wouldn't help that.

RGB32E · Post by **RGB32E** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:33 pm

Chocograph wrote:Do you have any links or pictures of that power supply? This is news to me.

To summarize the sequence of events that still have FBX's panties in a bunch:

1. Noticed that a Matsushita ETU-5K30 (purchased from a surplus store for $10) equipped with an AC line filter drastically improved black level and reduced noise on an Analog Devices AD725 evaluation board (RGB encoder used with Super Gun) compared to a "regulated" linear AC adapter or JAMMA power supply
2. Tested SNES FF3 title screen (notoriously noisy) using the ETU-5K30 to power the XRGB-mini and observed a reduction in picture noise. Mentioned this to CkRtech
3. CkRtech decides it would be a good idea to declare this as a "unicorn" solution, which is something I never claimed it to be.
4. FBX reads this and declares that he and only he is the one that "can settle this"
5. FBX rabbles on and on about his favorite pen pal's speculations - designer of the fabled SNES/MD1 component cables. All this being conjecture for what Micomsoft engineers should and should not be doing with their product.

CkRtech · Post by **CkRtech** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:55 pm

Well, it never hurts to try. I am sure if there were a power supply that made a difference and it happened to be rare or expensive now that there would surely be another one that is similar in component construction and quality that could do the same.

The only reason I haven't personally experimented with other power supplies on my framemeister is simply because I am lazy.

austin532 · Post by **austin532** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:18 pm

Playstation Scart Sync on Luma cables are back in stock from retro_console_accessories after being out of stock for about 6 months and they are going fast!

blizzz · Post by **blizzz** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:45 pm

Wrong topic?

Only one of the cables is left. I would buy it but shpping is $14.70 and because of the high shipping I would also have to pay import taxes. x_x

austin532 · Post by **austin532** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:11 pm

Opps, my mistake. Why are there two XRGB mini topics open anyway?

RGB32E · Post by **RGB32E** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:39 pm

austin532 wrote:Opps, my mistake. Why are there two XRGB mini topics open anyway?

There are 40+ threads that have the XRGB-mini as a topic. Of them there are at least 4 other XRGB-mini + SNES threads!

austin532 wrote:Playstation Scart Sync on Luma cables are back in stock from retro_console_accessories after being out of stock for about 6 months and they are going fast!

Helder sells fully pinned PlayStation connectors, so you could always build your own instead?

FBX · Post by **FBX** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:45 pm

austin532 wrote:Playstation Scart Sync on Luma cables are back in stock from retro_console_accessories after being out of stock for about 6 months and they are going fast!

Her original supplier of the PS cable interface had gone out of business, and so she told me she couldn't make them until she found a new supplier. I ended up getting a free one from a friend of mine that made it himself.

Likely if she found a new supplier, she will make more once the current batch is sold.

shmups.system11.org

XRGB-mini (framemeister) and SNES woes

XRGB-mini (framemeister) and SNES woes

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Re: XRGB-mini (framemeister) and SNES woes

Re: XRGB-mini (framemeister) and SNES woes

Re: XRGB-mini (framemeister) and SNES woes

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