Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[bobrocks95]

Obviously I don't expect people to magically know what TV I have. *I* don't even know what type of model it is. I just want a reference to somewhere that has information about this.

After some searching I found this video but I'm sure there are sites with more detailed information. I don't have a problem with the ray convergence, just the size.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAHGex1BsAU

I know it's possible to change without the service menu because I've seen TV repair men doing it.

[EDIT]
Meh... based on the results of my searches is seems easier (and safer!) to just buy a new set.

There's no general-purpose website that has info on overscan for multiple TV brands. If your CRT seriously has no branding whatsoever on the front or back it's probably a POS. Go pick up a c. 2000 Trinitron from someone's front lawn- check Craigslist.

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

I'm curious about something related to my setup and I was hoping someone here could explain to me what's the issue.

I have a Mitsubishi Leonardo plasma monitor. It's 4:3 and 40" in size. Native resolution is supposed to be 640 x 480.

What I have hooked up to it is a PAL PS2 (SCPH-39004) with a Waka Upscan Converter. So far I've only been playing PS2 games, but I adjusted the picture with an NTSC-J PS1 that I borrowed.

Now, I can't display the signal full screen, because it will be wobbly. I can get a nice stable picture running in a window that's almost fullscreen.

The Waka has no settings I can adjust, but I can adjust the Mitsubishi. It has these settings in the menu: Clock Frequency, Clock Phase 1, Clock Phase 2, H Position, V Height, V Position, Line Filter, Power Save, Signal Display, Address, Recall and White Balance.

Clock Frequence goes from 0 to 156. That's what adjusts the horiozontal width. With it set to 37 I can a nice crisp windowed signal with a slight horizontal warping during scrolling that you can only see in certain types of scenes. With it set to 47 I can an almost full screen picture that is even sharper*, but it is wobbly as hell. Adjusting the Phase settings doesn't really help at all. It will still stay wobbly, but it'll just have a different "strenght" of wobble.

Any ideas? With the Waka I'm using the official PSU with a stepdown and it is running pretty damn hot. So, could it be a power issue? Or could it be the PAL PS2? I doubt it, as the NTSC-J PS1 was also wobbly.

*checked with the grid of Tekken in Arcade History mode on a Tekken 5 disc which runs in 240p

[bobrocks95]

Well, to quote Fudoh's review on the Waka:

The Waka requires a NTSC 60Hz input signal and does not work with PAL signals

Doesn't explain why it was wobbly on an NTSC-J system though. Are you using the Waka because you're running 240p games converted to 480i?

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

The review states that it requires a true NTSC machine for PS1 games. I get a perfectly fine, thought somewhat windowed, picture on my modded PAL PS2 with NTSC-J PS2 games.

And no, I'm not running anything in 480i...

[Fudoh]

yes, NTSC PS2 titles run on a PAL PS2 should be fine.

PS2 has pretty big underscan borders in general, so the window boxed image you get is normal.

I think the problem with your plasma's phase/clock controls is that a linedoubler is actually supposed to output a 720x480p image from a PS2. The Waka does output 640x480p instead which causes "blurry columns" due to the sub-optimal sampling process. The phase/clock function of your plasma has likely problems to perfectly adjust to those blurry areas, hence the "wobbliness".

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

Alright, thanks. Looks like I'll stick with the nice-n-stable since I can't stand purdy-but-wobbly.

[FinalBaton]

Now I've played around with it some more. It seems to have some issues with 576p and 1080/50i. The later doesn't seem to work at all and with 576p the picture is shifted down. Have tried to find a solution but nothing really gets rid of the problem so far. Convergence is rather simple to adjust on this monitor, but what works in 1080/60i doesn't look good at all in 480p and vice versa. In other words I wouldn't recommend having multiple resolutions on this monitor.

But when you've got a 1080/60i source, how does it look? Like I said earlier, absolutely fantastic. It has a certain modern feeling, it's what we've all been wanting to get on our current displays. With Blu-Rays, results are near flawless. I've never seen anything like it. If you're in Stockholm sometime and want to see what it looks like, you're very welcome to drop by. For those of you who cannot, here are some captures that may interest you.

Had missed this but holy shit, this is so damn sexy!
Sorry I HAD to comment

wow, I'm jealous!
count me in for a crt on wich I can game AND watch movies with a great picture.

actually, on the plasma front, I'm wondering if there are some Pioneer Kuro models that have decent input lag. Those have a freaking amazing PQ

[nissling]

I actually prefer my Sony HDM over any plasma for watching movies. So far I'd say the HDM is the only display I've seen so far where I can watch a movie and not feel distracted by the picture quality. Sure the framerate isn't pure (as it has a 2:3 cadance), some caps needs replacements as geometry in the top of the tube is off and white balance is impossible to get right. But even so, it's a pure joy to just look at its performance and it puts the 9G Pioneer Kuro into shame. I really love it how the colors get some kind of glow, just like the regular PVMs and BVMs.

However initial price was $70,000 too so it's not fair to compare them right away. I think that if you talk about reference CRTs and compare them to LCDs or plasmas it's not a good idea to even bring consumer products to the subject imo. Although no manufacturer have made any reference plasma monitors in many, many years.

If you're in Stockholm, you may want to drop by. Also recently got in touch with its original owner and we've had an interesting discussion about this monitor. Supposedly SVT (Swedish Television, public service) had one, but mine is from Teracom (owner of TV network in Sweden).

[FinalBaton]

I actually prefer my Sony HDM over any plasma for watching movies. So far I'd say the HDM is the only display I've seen so far where I can watch a movie and not feel distracted by the picture quality. Sure the framerate isn't pure (as it has a 2:3 cadance), some caps needs replacements as geometry in the top of the tube is off and white balance is impossible to get right. But even so, it's a pure joy to just look at its performance and it puts the 9G Pioneer Kuro into shame. I really love it how the colors get some kind of glow, just like the regular PVMs and BVMs.

However initial price was $70,000 too so it's not fair to compare them right away. I think that if you talk about reference CRTs and compare them to LCDs or plasmas it's not a good idea to even bring consumer products to the subject imo. Although no manufacturer have made any reference plasma monitors in many, many years.

If you're in Stockholm, you may want to drop by. Also recently got in touch with its original owner and we've had an interesting discussion about this monitor. Supposedly SVT (Swedish Television, public service) had one, but mine is from Teracom (owner of TV network in Sweden).

Yes the glow of CRTs is so wonderful. On your last screen shot, the orange from the car and helmet seems like it's glowing. But without being oversaturated!
On the second Myazaki pic the contrast is so excellent and well balanced, the image really pops.

[nissling]

I also find the contrast being excellent on the HDM. Most notable are shadow details which are far superior to any PVM or BVM I've ever seen, but whites are also very strong without being blown out. Image is overall very film-like, or dream-like if you may call it so.

Btw, speaking of Pioneer Kuro, I actually think the late Panasonic plasmas are better. The VT30 (as we call it in Europe) is IMO preferable over i.e. KRP-500A in every aspect except black levels. Of course the Pioneer sets are great, but it's not some kind of magic. I know that plasma fanboys will freak out on me. I like CRTs, LCDs and plasmas in different ways.

I'll send you a PM.

[FinalBaton]

I also find the contrast being excellent on the HDM. Most notable are shadow details which are far superior to any PVM or BVM I've ever seen, but whites are also very strong without being blown out. Image is overall very film-like, or dream-like if you may call it so.

Btw, speaking of Pioneer Kuro, I actually think the late Panasonic plasmas are better. The VT30 (as we call it in Europe) is IMO preferable over i.e. KRP-500A in every aspect except black levels. Of course the Pioneer sets are great, but it's not some kind of magic. I know that plasma fanboys will freak out on me. I like CRTs, LCDs and plasmas in different ways.

I'll send you a PM.

Oh don't get me wrong; I like CRTs the best.
But after that, my next favorite is plasma I really like these screens and when I buy a flat panel, I always look for them first.

Yeah I read about some of the later Panasonics : ST30, ST60, S60, S30, VT30 etc. Some of these models have input lag close to 16ms too, so they're very interesting.
Would be fun to make a list regrouping all of the good Panasonic Plasmas and their lag, for future reference

EDIT : I'm thinking about starting a "Plasma display" thread, to regroup plasma-centric talk. But actually plasma is pretty much dead now so I guess it fits here! lol

[nissling]

Not sure what I think is the best, like I said I like them all but if we're talking consumer products then I'm not a big fan of CRTs. Most people in this thread seem to refer to what the very best reference monitors were capable of, those that were only used by professionals and had a price at $15000 or higher. A 28" CRT from Magnavox from the 90s don't have much in common with those if you know what I mean.

Regarding plasmas, they can sure be nice. I've even got a last-gen LG plasma in my main setup. But whenever people are referring to the best Pioneer and Panasonic models, they don't seem to think about the bad plasmas that were the vast majority of all plasmas. I'm talking about the greyish panels with poor brightness, XGA resolution and awful PWM. My previous plasma, Panasonic 42PX7E, was pretty much that. An awful set imo. My current plasma is quite nice though considering its low price. Blacks and contrast are not as good as you may wish at but the color accuracy and motion management can at moments bring thoughts to the 9G Pioneer Kuros. Input lag is a joke though, nearly 70ms.

[FinalBaton]

yes professional/broadcast crt monitors are better , goes without saying
but I never said better, I said "favorite"
I personally own a plasma flatscreen, a consumer Sony SD CRT(one of the best) and a small but good Sony PVM

And a sony bvm is obviously better than my consumer plasma. But if I have to shop for my living room consumer flat panel (and professional/broadcast ones aren't necessery better for gaming), I always try to find a plasma with a good image and decent lag first. This is my personnal preference only, again, not saying it's better.

[Xyga]

I'm the only one around to like the rough and plump consumer tube's spots. (well, not all)

[FinalBaton]

I'm the only one around to like the rough and plump consumer tube's spots. (well, not all)

I like my Sony KV-36FV300. You're not alone!
In fact I like many different display types. I guess I'm kind of a whore haha

[sixbynine]

Got my BVM-A32 yesterday. We carried it (2 Persons) to the third floor and it went surprisingly smooth.
After some configuration it now runs almost (cant auto adj. picture, fails every time with the message: R: 100IRE LEVE: NG) as it’s supposed to – props to fudoh and philexile.

/Edit. Manual states that ›An external color bar signal is necessary‹. So I Probably just need an SMTPE test image on screen while auto adjusting.
/Edit2. Jup, that did the trick. The more you know.

[Xan]

Hmm, the auto adjust thing never worked for me on any of my PVMs...

[sixbynine]

Hmm, the auto adjust thing never worked for me on any of my PVMs...

Try it with the 240p suite and an SMTPE test chart on display, worked for me.

[nissling]

That's an awesome CRT. Maybe you can bring it up to Sweden and we'll do a side by side comparison to my HDM.

[sixbynine]

That's an awesome CRT. Maybe you can bring it up to Sweden and we'll do a side by side comparison to my HDM.

Haaa, I don’t know … Why don’t you come over here? I haven’t yet put HD material in it, but I’m really eager to see 720p on that thing.

[Xan]

Hmm, the auto adjust thing never worked for me on any of my PVMs...

Try it with the 240p suite and an SMTPE test chart on display, worked for me.

Yeah that's exactly what I did, with various systems even, but for some reason it doesn't seem to detect the test pattern, or maybe this feature is just more reliable on BVMs.

[arcade-stg]

Great catch!, sixbynine

With your model you have a bigger 4:3 viewable area than with the BVM-A20.

BVM-A32: 491.3 x 368.5 mm, (614.1 mm)
BVM-A24: 361.6 x 271.2 mm, (452 mm)
BVM-A20: 386 x 291 mm, (482 mm)

[BazookaBen]

Somebody should play Far Cry 4 or something at 1440i on their BVM and take a picture. I bet that looks pretty awesome.

[Einzelherz]

Hmm, the auto adjust thing never worked for me on any of my PVMs...

Try it with the 240p suite and an SMTPE test chart on display, worked for me.

Yeah that's exactly what I did, with various systems even, but for some reason it doesn't seem to detect the test pattern, or maybe this feature is just more reliable on BVMs.

It works for me, but only on my Wii over component in 480p (iirc). It didn't like 240p from what I remember.

[nissling]

Somebody should play Far Cry 4 or something at 1440i on their BVM and take a picture. I bet that looks pretty awesome.

I can try Grand Theft Auto V on the Ps4 in 1080i if you're interested.

[BazookaBen]

Somebody should play Far Cry 4 or something at 1440i on their BVM and take a picture. I bet that looks pretty awesome.

I can try Grand Theft Auto V on the Ps4 in 1080i if you're interested.

Nah, I'm curious how 1440i would look on a BVM. It would would run at the same frequencies as 720p, so it should be possible. You would need a decent PC (for stuff like GTAV and Far Cry 4) and create a custom resolution with CRU. I know the aperture grille on the BVM isn't sharp enough to render the 2,560 horizontal pixels, but I think it would still look pretty cool.

[sixbynine]

Does anyone know the difference between ›Operation‹- and ›CRT-On‹-time?

[kamiboy]

I believe CRT on includes time spent in standby while operation is only when the display was actually being used.

[kamiboy]

After years of desiring it I finally went and boight one. Presenting the piece de resistance of my B&O collection, the Bang & Olufsen Beovision 1.



Gaming just got sexy...

[xga]

How does it compare to the MX range?