Weird component transcoder problem for the tech gurus

[mikehaggar]

Hi everybody,

I'm having a strange problem, any help would be appreciated.

I will post all available information here (sorry if the post is long!)

For a bit of history, I own the CSY-2100 clone component transcoder. I also own the following consoles

av fami - nesrgb installed, rgb wired to multiout, uses CSYNC
cable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201284360714?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

pc engine - rgb modded, uses composite video as sync
cable: homemade din -> scart

NES - nesrgb installed, uses CSYNC
cable: viletim's din -> scart

genesis model 1, unmodded -
cable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161575853221?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

fat SNES - unmodded
cable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201284360714?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

All work fine with the CSY clone, (so the cables work!!) however, I decided to look for a better transcoder.

I then purchased this broadcast quality one from ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151440446374?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

The good news is that both the SNES and the Genesis work perfectly. The colors are super nice, I'm extremely happy with this transcoder!

The bad news is that the NES, AV fami, and PC Engine all don't work. I get a black and white wavy, rolling image. It feels like sync is off or something.

It's also worth noting that all of my unmodified systems work on the transcoder and the modified ones don't.

I'm trying to figure out the problem with those consoles in particular. First off, the problem isn't the cable. For the AV fami, i can even use the same exact cable for that and the SNES. One works and the other doesn't. It's a CSYNC wired cable btw, which brings me to the most likely culprit, the sync.

Any ideas? Is there a way I can do some tests to try to diagnose what the difference is between the ones that work and the ones that don't? Perhaps the sync voltage is too weak coming out of the other consoles? Can this be tested somehow? I own a multimeter but don't know how to use it....yes Im a newb!

Interesting note: my transcoder has jumper settings in the manual for accepting different voltages of sync.
the different settings are:

-4V
-2V
-1V
-0.286V

It says the factory default jumper setting is -4V. I haven't opened the transcoder up yet to see which setting it is on....

Interesting note 2: There is the following note in the manual as well:

All input signals must be as follows:

1. Stable and free of time base error
2. Contain a SYNC signal conforming to standards
3. No signals or noise can be present during the blanking period

[Josh128]

C-sync with the NESRGB has some funky stuff going on with it, my Keene Scart commander has a minor issue with it and the same issue with the Genesis model 2. Not sure if the level is too low or too high, but somethings a little off.



Try to use PPUV for sync on the NESRGB and see if that helps. You could also try changing the switch to a lower sync voltage first and see if that helps.

[mikehaggar]

changing the jumpers in the transcoder actually worked! I had to go down to the 2 volt sync setting in order for the NES and av fami to be recognized.

Had to go all the way to the one volt setting in order for the pc engine to be recognized!

All of the consoles get a super good picture now! Really happy with this.

For anybody having problems with their Csync out of nesrgb, just be aware that the nesrgb puts out a low voltage (maybe between 2 and 3.5 volts?), whereas the pc engine sync as composite puts out somewhere between 1 and 1.5 volts...if you have a finicky console that doesn't seem to work in your device, the reason may be varying sync voltage.

[Josh128]

Cool, it must be the lower level that causes the issue with my Keene. Guess PPUV outputs a higher level signal than pure C-sync on the NESRGB.

Any chance you could post some comparison shots between the CSY clone and your new transcoder?

[mikehaggar]

Ok, I went in to get pictures....and I found out something interesting.

I've realized that this is way too subjective for me to give a good opinion about this.

I'm using a CRT, so all the calibration has to be done with my eyes.

First, you calibrate the transcoder as well as you can (adjust reds, greens, blues), then you adjust your tv. My tv responds differently to both transcoders.

After adjusting my TV to each and taking pictures, I honestly can't tell them apart on the pictures. They look identical. I can only go by the pictures as it takes a good 5 minutes for me to do all the hookups between the two and by then you've forgotten exactly what the other looks like.

This means either they are identical outputs, or the camera can't capture the subtleties (possible, as I'm using a crappy iphone camera). The only way to get a true comparison would be to maybe capture a component feed from both and then just post screenshots, which I have no way of doing for a while.

I feel dumb now though, because when I first got the clone, I was spending all my time on the adjustments on the pots on the device itself, and didn't touch my own tv calibrations. That makes a huge difference. I didn't realize that with each device, you should adjust based on how it reacts with your own television.

I'll probably still end up using my new transcoder instead of the csy clone (since it can also go from component to rgb, never know when that will come in handy in the future!), but as far as converting rgb to component, it's too hard for me to tell them apart and I don't have the dozens of extra hours I'll have to put into it. The one thing I hate about the clone is that it's really hard to initially calibrate. The pots are unlabeled and they're inside the actual device. I spent hours getting it right. Six pots that adjust god knows what. On my new transcoder, the pots are outside of the device and they're clearly labeled (R, G, and B) instead of six mystery pots. Other than that, the csy clone is a fine product, especially for its size and price point. Forgive me for ever talking trash about it!

[Josh128]

Of course, no problem. I appreciate your honesty about what you are seeing in comparing the two. I was just curious about your case because I truly, sincerely have had little to no issues with the two CSY clones I own. I understand from yours and other cases that they sometimes come in needing to be tweaked, but mine were (by my own eye) basically spot on out of the box.

For ~$55 I find they put out a very high quality picture, matching AA's VGA to component transcoder when I pitted them against each other on my plasma with my Dreamcast.

Glad you got everything going, if nothing else at least you got to play with some different tech.