GamerGate - and it's continuing aftermath.

[Mischief Maker]

the depravity-normalising carnage we all crave.

Worth noting in the second robbery the victim had a gun and not only didn't it help her, they stole the rest of her guns.

[BIL]

Makes sense. Lots of DOOM enemies have guns and it never stopped me and my space marine bros from gang-raping them in front of their families.

[Strider77]

[BIL]

^ more like:

Spoiler

(according to o̶u̶t̶r̶a̶g̶e̶-̶p̶e̶d̶d̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶n̶d̶u̶s̶t̶r̶y̶ ̶l̶e̶e̶c̶h̶e̶s̶ more culturally enlightened quarters)

Professional muckrakers looking for new sermon material can't vanish quickly enough. Encouraging that this particular gust of self-serving flatulence seems to have dispersed in such short order.

[Strider77]

Any more drama?

[Acid King]

I suppose this isn't directly gamergate related, but some indie studio I never heard of, Tale of Tales, decided to shutter their doors after the commercial failure of their latest game. Despite accolades from places like Edge and Kotaku, it turns out not many people are interested in first person housekeeping simulators. The devs twitter tantrum is likely more entertaining than the game they made.

[Squire Grooktook]

Without playing any of their games, I knew these guys were shit from this wikipedia page.

"Whereas humans possess a biological need that is only satisfied by play, argues Samyn, and as play has manifested itself in the form of games, games represent nothing more than a physiological necessity. Art, on the other hand, is not created out of a physical need but rather it represents a search for higher purposes."

Unless of course you don't believe in higher purposes, and just appreciate something aesthetic for what it is. Pleasure is pleasure.

Also biological need for video games

[evil_ash_xero]

I was happy that UbiSoft didn't invite Kotaku to their whatever, at E3. Also, NeoGAF wasn't invited at all.

It's the little things that make me happy.

I was also VERY pleased that Sarkeesian actually got criticism this time, for her lambasting of violent games. I knew that when that really started to come out, that was going to really put her against gamers (and SJW journalists against gamers). Although it's so dumb....gamers are so gung ho about how "games do not cause violence", and will lash out quite a bit, when people try to do something about it. But how in the world did somebody, that we had never heard of, convince so many people that games cause sexism?
Well, whatever, she crossed "the line". It may be rocky for her now. But it's the whole SJW Journalist establishment that needs to reconsider their viewpoints. Or at least quit trying to shove it down everyone's throats.

Also, I have no problem with art games, but most actual gamers don't care. The journalists are going for some kind of "high minded" stuff...and really, most gamers play for fun.
I definitely like more artistic games (one of the reason I'm into Japanese games), but "art house" games.... Not so much. Either they don't really have any value, as a game (Gone Home), or they don't have any replay value.

The journalists they are pushing the medium towards art, and la la la....but we don't really want it. The sales speak for themselves. For better or worse.

[BIL]

The devs twitter tantrum is likely more entertaining than the game they made.

Undoubtedly. Quality bit of mask slippage. ^__^ And apparently Leigh Alexander does/did their PR.

DESTROYED AT A TIME

Auriea & Michaël ‏@taleoftales · 50m50 minutes ago
@jeroendstout

Perfect. Goodbye, gamers! May you die in the same agony that you caused to thousands of defenceless virtual creatures.

Such high-minded artistic sensibility! Die in agony, insolent plebs!

Dunno what scrubfests they play but the virtual chaps I joust with are anything but defenseless, they're usually pretty fucking dangerous. That's kinda the point. And sorry to offend noble sensitivities, but BULLER MAN AIN'T NO GOD DAMN SON OF A BITCH (・｀W´・)

WARNING: NWS footage of "BULLER MAN Densetsu: MAAZOBASE Senki"

Spoiler

NOOO LOUIE-KUN （´;ω;｀) I'LL GET THOSE BASTARDS FOR YOU (・｀W´・)



NOT LOOKING SO HOT NOW, YOU IMP FUCK (・｀W´・)

These con artists always seem to be about as "gamer" as they are "compassionate human beings worthy of respect." :[

[Mischief Maker]

I made the mistake of buying Tale of Tales' "The Path" long ago.

Basically you control 1 of 4 women of different ages on a trip to grandmother's house, wander into the woods, then get raped by a wolf.

It was so mind-blowingly consciousness expanding that I had to slaughter over a thousand innocent virtual demons to return to my normal troglodyte gamer self.

[mamboFoxtrot]

Sounds... interesting?

Hopefully, one of these days, the general gaming populace will realize that not every interactive program or computer simulation has to be a video GAME. "Interactive fiction" and other kinds of programs (not "other game genres") are totally cool and do not need to be constantly compared to or misguidedly mixed with games. Likewise, games that are "just games" are totally cool and do not need to be shat on to make room for these things. Then these guys and David Cage and such can stop being emotionally tortured by "evil game mechanics" and just make whatever it is they ACTUALLY want to make, and I can stop being intellectually tortured by seeing people make ridiculous statements along the lines of "by removing the traditional gameplay from the game, the game has been elevated to a state higher art form state above being merely a game" or seriously asking if "games really need gameplay".


Also, just saying: anyone relying on making a non-trivial amount of money selling $10-or-less "games", mass-appeal design or not, in this absurdly crowded market is certifiably insane and/or too dumb to live.

[evil_ash_xero]

Well, we've had interactive shit like Myst and whatnot, for a long time. It's just not in style, at this particular moment.

Also, the developer of that game sounds like a fucking asshole. No wonder they got such high marks.

[BIL]

He might make shitty games and be an impotently tweeting failure with delusions of genocide, but at least he's honest! Give him your money and he'll go away.



To avoid complications in this principled artist getting his outstretched grasping hands on your tainted gamer cash, please complete transferral of monies before dying in screaming agony and proceeding to rot in hell.

He's right of course, with a bit of luck ignoring his ilk gets similar results for free.

[Squire Grooktook]

I also want to point out that none of the virtual creatures I've slaughtered were "defenseless".

[Ed Oscuro]

I slaughtered that lighthouse generator in Myst pretty good. *rumble rumblrumblrumble*

BTW, I don't think calling "non-games" not games is a good business tactic. Games like Myst never bothered me so I don't worry about it. It's pretty easy to spot the egregious "mind altering" titles and ignore them, again.

[mamboFoxtrot]

I killed the Wacka-mole in Paper Mario numerous times... poor little guy.

Well, we've had interactive shit like Myst and whatnot, for a long time. It's just not in style, at this particular moment.

Sort of. I mean, I see visual novels everywhere these days, so they gotta be doing at least slightly well for themselves. I haven't played a VN before, but I'm assuming they're not too different from the "choose your own adventure" books that pre-date video games entirely.

BTW, I don't think calling "non-games" not games is a good business tactic. Games like Myst never bothered me so I don't worry about it. It's pretty easy to spot the egregious "mind altering" titles and ignore them, again.

I haven't played Myst either, but it was a graphic adventure game with puzzles and such, yeah? Sounds like that's at least still easily within the realm of "game". I'm talking more stuff like "Zen Sand Raking Simulator 2015" or w/e. It's that kind of stuff that I don't think benefits from trying to sell itself as a "game", since that'd just be false advertising. I can't really comment on these 3D movie things, like what apparently this Tale of Tales company makes. Actually, MischiefMaker, I'd be interested in hearing a bit more about what that thing you played was like.

[Mischief Maker]

Actually, MischiefMaker, I'd be interested in hearing a bit more about what that thing you played was like.

Okey-doke!

Spoiler

Basically it's centered around little red riding hood. There are 4 or 5 women in an apartment all dressed in red who may in fact be the same person at different times of her life. You're going to visit grandma and need to follow a straight path through the woods to get there. If you obey the command to stay on the path and get to grandma's island cabin, you're treated to a boring cutscene of you visiting a comatose old woman.

If you stray from the path into the woods, you bump into various toys and other items and get some vague message by Red about her life and how this thing is involved. If you stand around the woods for too long, a little black girl in a white dress appears and leads you by the hand back to the path.

If you really explore, eventually you find a clearing with some kind of setpiece where you encounter the wolf. A cutscene plays out of the buildup to the rape, then the scene fades to black. After that, Red is back on the path in the pouring rain looking worse for wear and you limp to grandma's house. In the house you go through a nightmare funhouse scenario based around the rape. Then the screen returns to the apartment with the Red you played with missing, and you send out another Red to get raped.

The youngest gets raped by an actual wolf she mistakes for a dog

The second youngest gets raped by the little black girl in a red dress

The teenager gets raped by a lumberjack she hits on (her nightmare scenario is actually pretty unintentionally hilarious)

The oldest gets raped by a piano-playing elf

Once all the Reds are raped, you're in control of the black girl with blood spattered all over her dress in the rain. She sprints to grandma's house and you have a cutscene of her crouching next to grandma's bed looking like she's about to attack (and rape?) her.

THE END

(f)Art!

[Ed Oscuro]

wtf.

and wtf again:
http://kotaku.com/apple-yanks-games-wit ... 1713885047

I'll take my chances playing outside the "walled garden."

[Squire Grooktook]

I remember reading an interview with an indie movie maker, who said that he actually thinks a Hollywood summer action flick has more intellectual depth then your average psychedelic indie arthouse film. Because "at least it's about something."

I think the same holds true for games really. Contra probably has a better plot then Tales of Tales games. One man (or two) stands up to the alien invasion and preserves peace, justice, and liberty against all odds! That's more emotionally stirring and relevant to the human condition then whatever the fuck this is supposed to be about.

That's another reason why I have to laugh at developers who want to see the medium in general "move away from action and violence" to deliver "beautiful experiences". The ironic thing is that violent conflict is probably a better medium (within this genre, at least) for delivering stories with actual thematic depth.

The closest I can think of to non-violence/action based games that have the same kind of gameplay depth as action based games are puzzlers like Tetris/Puyo Puyo/Tetris Attack, etc. But those are not nearly as proficient at delivering story or characters. The closest I can think of to non-violence/action based games that have the same kind of storytelling ability are visual novels/text adventures and oldscool adventure games (Myst), and both are quite bare in the gameplay department. Otherwise, all my favorite stories in games were within an action/adventure context.

I'm also not really against "interactive experiences" when they're done well, like Journey. But I think it's hard to argue that that game has the same kind of gameplay depth as a good action game, or story depth as a good book. That's fine, but it's one reason why action based games should be the norm. They're simply the best at combining story and gameplay within the medium.

[Obscura]

The "Tycoon" series had some really fun high points, and is probably the best "not adventure/puzzle/violence" videogame example I can come up with.

But yeah, in general, more violent games will be better than less violent ones simply due to the goal-driven nature of the medium.

[Mischief Maker]

and wtf again:
http://kotaku.com/apple-yanks-games-wit ... 1713885047

I'm actually curious if the right would be willing the sacrifice the confederate flag to keep attention away from gun control.

[The Coop]

and wtf again:
http://kotaku.com/apple-yanks-games-wit ... 1713885047

I'm actually curious if the right would be willing the sacrifice the confederate flag to keep attention away from gun control.

Depends on how much the NRA and its partners/lobbyists are willing to pony up.

[Ed Oscuro]

and wtf again:
http://kotaku.com/apple-yanks-games-wit ... 1713885047

I'm actually curious if the right would be willing the sacrifice the confederate flag to keep attention away from gun control.

That wouldn't work. On the other hand, they could bitch and moan about effete west coat liberal censorship and try to keep their teeth in this one for all it's worth, to change the discussion entirely.

[mamboFoxtrot]

Actually, MischiefMaker, I'd be interested in hearing a bit more about what that thing you played was like.

Okey-doke!

Spoiler

Basically it's centered around little red riding hood. There are 4 or 5 women in an apartment all dressed in red who may in fact be the same person at different times of her life. You're going to visit grandma and need to follow a straight path through the woods to get there. If you obey the command to stay on the path and get to grandma's island cabin, you're treated to a boring cutscene of you visiting a comatose old woman.

If you stray from the path into the woods, you bump into various toys and other items and get some vague message by Red about her life and how this thing is involved. If you stand around the woods for too long, a little black girl in a white dress appears and leads you by the hand back to the path.

If you really explore, eventually you find a clearing with some kind of setpiece where you encounter the wolf. A cutscene plays out of the buildup to the rape, then the scene fades to black. After that, Red is back on the path in the pouring rain looking worse for wear and you limp to grandma's house. In the house you go through a nightmare funhouse scenario based around the rape. Then the screen returns to the apartment with the Red you played with missing, and you send out another Red to get raped.

The youngest gets raped by an actual wolf she mistakes for a dog

The second youngest gets raped by the little black girl in a red dress

The teenager gets raped by a lumberjack she hits on (her nightmare scenario is actually pretty unintentionally hilarious)

The oldest gets raped by a piano-playing elf

Once all the Reds are raped, you're in control of the black girl with blood spattered all over her dress in the rain. She sprints to grandma's house and you have a cutscene of her crouching next to grandma's bed looking like she's about to attack (and rape?) her.

THE END

(f)Art!

That... is a rather excessive amount of rape. "Try-hard" much?

I wonder what the ol' "outrage machine" thinks of a game where, essentially, the goal is to get raped repeatedly. Or, what they think of the general trend of female characters in horror and other dark/gritty settings consistently being rape-fodder. I do personally find the use of it to come off as pretty cheap and gratuitous most of the time.

[Ed Oscuro]

I wonder what the ol' "outrage machine" thinks of a game where, essentially, the goal is to get raped repeatedly.

From what I have seen, judgment of such products literally hinges on whether they're meant to be enjoyable or not (if not, +teachable rep), who makes them, and maybe on whether it's "free speech art" etc. flavored buzzwords. I think that if somebody lied about who made a game and what their artist statement was, that could rally people for or against a game, regardless of what it is.

Overall, the game sounds like a description of basically every other game on DLSite.

[Lobinden]

I hate to bump a thread like this, but I just find Gamergate to be an interesting topic to talk about, because of how polarising it is in its nature.

As I was, admittedly, massively into the whole "4chan" clique up until the end of 2014, I was around /v/ when Gamergate started and was known as the Quinnspiracy, and I was an early supporter of it. I thought it was good that people were finally becoming aware of how those who write for the entertainment industry are not usually honest, and due to the amounts of dishonesty in entertainment journalism, should be assumed to be dishonest until proven otherwise. Yeah there was a ton of shitposting and actual abuse towards female game developers (and militant progressives abusing supporters), but it was changing things for the better.

Since then, Gamergate in my opinion has become just as much of a circlejerk echo chamber as the militant progressivism they fight against, and the movement has just gone full circle. An example of this would be Gamergate's almost unanimous support of the game Hatred. Obviously Hatred is covered by freedom of expression and should not be banned, but "gamergaters" were supporting this game which was being made popular through manufactured controversy instead of good gameplay (because let's face it, Hatred was a shockingly mediocre twin stick shooter), to the extent that it became the top seller on Steam. I consider this to be a much bigger case of corruption than the cronyism that bred Depression Quest (the game which single-handedly started Gamergate), because the developers of Hatred were obviously getting rich off the manufactured controversy and the even more manufactured backlash against the manufactured controversy.

Additionally, I feel as though Gaming journalism has been shit for a very, very long time. I find that the Gamergate movement carries the implication that gaming journalism was good before the militant progressives tried to "take it over", which is just flat out wrong.

[Bananamatic]

I hate to bump a thread like this, but I just find Gamergate to be an interesting topic to talk about, because of how polarising it is in its nature.

As I was, admittedly, massively into the whole "4chan" clique up until the end of 2014, I was around /v/ when Gamergate started and was known as the Quinnspiracy, and I was an early supporter of it. I thought it was good that people were finally becoming aware of how those who write for the entertainment industry are not usually honest, and due to the amounts of dishonesty in entertainment journalism, should be assumed to be dishonest until proven otherwise. Yeah there was a ton of shitposting and actual abuse towards female game developers (and militant progressives abusing supporters), but it was changing things for the better.

Since then, Gamergate in my opinion has become just as much of a circlejerk echo chamber as the militant progressivism they fight against, and the movement has just gone full circle. An example of this would be Gamergate's almost unanimous support of the game Hatred. Obviously Hatred is covered by freedom of expression and should not be banned, but "gamergaters" were supporting this game which was being made popular through manufactured controversy instead of good gameplay (because let's face it, Hatred was a shockingly mediocre twin stick shooter), to the extent that it became the top seller on Steam. I consider this to be a much bigger case of corruption than the cronyism that bred Depression Quest (the game which single-handedly started Gamergate), because the developers of Hatred were obviously getting rich off the manufactured controversy and the even more manufactured backlash against the manufactured controversy.

Additionally, I feel as though Gaming journalism has been shit for a very, very long time. I find that the Gamergate movement carries the implication that gaming journalism was good before the militant progressives tried to "take it over", which is just flat out wrong.

to be honest the "4chan" clique abandoned gamergate a few months in after the main drama was over, try to bring it up or any of the recent drama these days and any board will tell you to fuck off
it's a purely reddit thing now, including the circlejerk echo chamber stuff that's basically on every sub

[MathU]

Gamergate's almost unanimous support of the game Hatred

Well just keep in mind Gamergate is not a person. I don't know where you saw this happen but the only reason I cared about Hatred was because I saw a clear case of censorship happening. That doesn't mean I bought the game though and it did indeed turn out to be not so good.

to be honest the "4chan" clique abandoned gamergate a few months in after the main drama was over, try to bring it up or any of the recent drama these days and any board will tell you to fuck off
it's a purely reddit thing now, including the circlejerk echo chamber stuff that's basically on every sub

/v/ is still one of the most active boards on the competitive chan with by far the most traffic compared to 4chan and you will get eaten alive if you badmouth GG there. The "4chan clique" didn't abandon anything; they just moved over to a different website that wasn't so oppressive.

[Lobinden]

to be honest the "4chan" clique abandoned gamergate a few months in after the main drama was over, try to bring it up or any of the recent drama these days and any board will tell you to fuck off
it's a purely reddit thing now, including the circlejerk echo chamber stuff that's basically on every sub

I am aware of that. Gamergate is extremely unpopular on 4chan /v/ nowadays, but the reason why I left the 4chan/8chan subculture myself does not have much to do with gamergate.
Gamergate is pretty prominent on twitter too.

Well just keep in mind Gamergate is not a person. I don't know where you saw this happen but the only reason I cared about Hatred was because I saw a clear case of censorship happening. That doesn't mean I bought the game though and it did indeed turn out to be not so good.

That is why I said "almost unanimous". I know many gamergate supports didn't like hatred either, but this does not negate the fact that a lot of them were supporting it, and even telling people to buy copies for their friends to "stick it to the sjws" or whatever, which is just as stupid as progressives boycotting games and trying to censor them because of "sexualised characters" or whatever excuse is most suitable for them at the time.

The "4chan clique" didn't abandon anything; they just moved over to a different website that wasn't so oppressive

Most of those people who left 4chan /v/ for 8chan /v/ when Gamergate threads started to be removed from /v/ weren't really part of the clique. Most of them were "refugees" from reddit who wouldn't have been on 4chan prior to gamergate. Most of the people who were around on 4chan as an anime imageboard didn't move an inch.

[Ed Oscuro]

to be honest the "4chan" clique abandoned gamergate a few months in after the main drama was over, try to bring it up or any of the recent drama these days and any board will tell you to fuck off
it's a purely reddit thing now, including the circlejerk echo chamber stuff that's basically on every sub

Haha. I was reading the mess over Ellen Page...Pao...(bob page?) thing recently, and uhh...

"muh furst amendment"

No you fools, you're trying to keep advertisers on the hook for subsidizing your horrible discussions.

Don't have any sympathies for Pao's handling of things, but there are a lot of people on reddit who probably should be setting up their own sites.

That said, fatpeoplehate sounds like a cool place to be!

Edit: ED forever! Much better article than many I had seen of late. Kind of funny how popularity just means that sensible people kind of drift and flow in and out of popular sites in response to craziness. There was a time when I'd not have expected ED to have anything sensible on a subject like this, and when I would have expected reddit to be worth looking at (to be fair, there's still parts of reddit that are very good).