Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Xyga]

The ones above it show a CRT projection TV - both were most certainly running in 1080i. This was too early for Plasma.

Dunno but when you look at it on video it doesn't give the same feeling as a rear projection set: http://youtu.be/2KVoPogwVts
There's a first set looking like an HDIR-550, okay, then a second one with apparently thinner bezels -> this is the one I'm finding suspicious.
If it's another hi-vision/MUSE compatible rear projection crt, which brand/model is it ?

[Fudoh]

You mean the one shown at 00:24, right ?

That's the same one as shown here: http://randomhoohaas.flyingomelette.com ... iten13.JPG and that's definitely a rear projection display. I don't know the model, but then again it's very hard to find any infos on 90's rear projection TVs at all....

[CPC6128]

Now I've played around with it some more. It seems to have some issues with 576p and 1080/50i. The later doesn't seem to work at all and with 576p the picture is shifted down. Have tried to find a solution but nothing really gets rid of the problem so far. Convergence is rather simple to adjust on this monitor, but what works in 1080/60i doesn't look good at all in 480p and vice versa. In other words I wouldn't recommend having multiple resolutions on this monitor.

But when you've got a 1080/60i source, how does it look? Like I said earlier, absolutely fantastic. It has a certain modern feeling, it's what we've all been wanting to get on our current displays. With Blu-Rays, results are near flawless. I've never seen anything like it. If you're in Stockholm sometime and want to see what it looks like, you're very welcome to drop by. For those of you who cannot, here are some captures that may interest you.

I possess Sony KW-3200HD HDVS since 8 years.
It is a similar model in your but 32".
In bluray 1080i the image is fantastic.
It's a Japanese model thus it does not make 50hz.
Behind my TV, I have entries RGBHV allowed to connect my PC in VGA 640x480@60Hz to play emulators for ex.


Hébergé par Imagesia, le meilleur hébergeur d'images du net !

Hébergé par Imagesia, le meilleur hébergeur d'images du net !

Hébergé par Imagesia.com

But unfortunately since some time there is a problem that I did not manage to resolve
Hébergé par Imagesia, le meilleur hébergeur d'images du net !

Hébergé par Imagesia, le meilleur hébergeur d'images du net !

Hébergé par Imagesia, le meilleur hébergeur d'images du net !

[Xyga]

You mean the one shown at 00:24, right ?

That's the same one as shown here: http://randomhoohaas.flyingomelette.com ... iten13.JPG and that's definitely a rear projection display. I don't know the model, but then again it's very hard to find any infos on 90's rear projection TVs at all....

Yes that's the one, it looks even more impressive than the Sony. I would have totally eyegasmed if I had owned smething like that in the early 90's. ^^

[Fudoh]

I possess Sony KW-3200HD HDVS since 8 years.

a beautiful consumer TV set.

Hardly anybody knows that there was a European version (HD3215) as well. No Muse decoder of course, but the legendary, but short-lived 1080i-capable "Golden Scart" input. Those were the days....

[BazookaBen]

@ Ben: Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, and perhaps my example wasn't well thought out. Trying again, I think this should make sense:

Code: Select all

T1 T2 T3 T4 T5
B1 B2 B3 B4 B5

For 1080i60 output, T1, B1, T2, and B2 display two frames, and within most of a 1/30 second window we'd just see one rendered frame. However, between B0 and T1, and between B2 and T3, there will be a period where half of the fields will show the "old" frame, and half will be showing the "new" frame. I don't expect this would be unique to the display on discussion.

Come to think of it, running at 30fps isn't essential to this example either - 60fps should show any possible effect even more strongly.

Yeah, I mean, taking a snapshot at any time can give you a mixed picture, but I guess I'm speaking more the actual experience of watching it. Just speaking from recent experience. Playing Pikmin 2 in 480i didn't look less sharp than 480p, and the combing wasn't anymore distracting than the double image you get on a 60hz progressive display.

My take home message is that a lot of PS4 games would probably look better on this HDM monitor than on more modern LCD's, since a majority of them are 30fps, and the HDM probably has really deep color and better motion clarity. Of course, for 60fps games that's kinda thrown out the window since you lose half the resolution.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ugh, was hoping not to hear that Bomberman voice again. Good match for the annoying Assembler Games intro though. The footage here is standard def (even when selecting the 1080p option) so there's not a lot to look at. My vote's for that being a projection display too. The flat front gives it away.

@ Ben: Sorry, but you're answering a bunch of questions I didn't ask

[nio]

Just got the Sony BKM-14L. It's really boring on the BVM-D20F1E. Guess the use is better on 24 or 32" or with multiple monitors. I am happy to have it, though. Setup feels more complete now.

[sixbynine]

I possess Sony KW-3200HD HDVS since 8 years.

a beautiful consumer TV set.

Hardly anybody knows that there was a European version (HD3215) as well. No Muse decoder of course, but the legendary, but short-lived 1080i-capable "Golden Scart" input. Those were the days....

There’s one on eBay right now: http://www.ebay.de/itm/SONY-KW-HD3215-H ... 2ee2d13e55

Seller claims 80 manufactured. That’d be an amazingly low number.

Just got the Sony BKM-14L.

Where’d you find that thing?

[nissling]

77 kilograms. That's too light for me.
Although it looks like a very fine set.

[ryu]

I wonder if that one works with 60hz sources as well and has an option to disable the frame doubling

[Xan]

Is the Golden SCART input even usable today? It seems such an obscure format that I'm afraid this might be just another 15 kHz set in practice.

[Fudoh]

s the Golden SCART input even usable today?

Honestly no idea as the tech never evolved and I don't think the norm was ever actually used here in Europe to broadcast anything.

80 units built doesn't seem too far catched. Other ultra-high 32" TVs of that age were less than half the price and this particular set didn't have too much going for it.

[CPC6128]

I possess Sony KW-3200HD HDVS since 8 years.

a beautiful consumer TV set.

Hardly anybody knows that there was a European version (HD3215) as well. No Muse decoder of course, but the legendary, but short-lived 1080i-capable "Golden Scart" input. Those were the days....

Winner, Good Design Award, Audio Visual Products, 1992 :
http://www.sony.net/Fun/design/history/ ... 200hd.html

I know the KW-HD3215, because at a time, I looked for the schematic manual to repair my TV, but impossible to find it in Japan...
I managed to put the hand on a service manual of 3215, but unfortunately too much difference of my TV.

Yes I remember in 1992 having seen an Olympic games of Albertville on a television set Thomson HD-MAC on 1250 ( 1152i / 25 ) in a store Thomson, never seen a so natural image!
The analog 1152i it was something else than the compressed 1080p of today!
The French television of period had put in games two exemplary!

[CPC6128]

Barcelona 92 in HD-MAC :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyxEcoIVz-8

Scart Gold :
http://imagesia.com/peritel-d-or-eureka-95-tvhd_z2ef

[DeQMaster]

Hi

Just got a JVC DT-v1710CG, and while it goes really superb when using component signal from the PS2, im having some issues whit other consoles which outputs RGB signal.

For the moment, im using a selfmade scart-to-bnc adapter, which goes plain, r to r, g to g, b to b, and im using composite signal for sync (grounds are common). The thing is that, while the image is razor sharp when using composite, it lacks definition when using RGB (kind of composite blurriness, but not so heavy)

It maybe because of the composite signal? Maybe i have to strip the signal to pure sync using for example an lm1881?

I have no clue, and i would like to keep the monitor, as i bought it virtually new.

Do anyone have this monitor and can give me a hand? Any hints are welcome!

Thank you in advance

[FinalBaton]

Fudoh : do you know if the Pioneer PDP-424MV plasma is as good with 240p souces as the PDP-402 you reviewed?

It's a 480p widescreen one, but seems to be from the same era. hopefully the processing is as good as the 402...


Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer.

[Fudoh]

No, sorry, I don't know. Most of the widescreen plasma sets got "proper" deinterlacing engines, which affect all 15khz signals.

Generally I have time arguing in favor of old 16:9 plasma sets when brand new ones (like the Samsung 43 and 51") sets have pretty good 240p handling.

[FinalBaton]

No, sorry, I don't know. Most of the widescreen plasma sets got "proper" deinterlacing engines, which affect all 15khz signals.

Generally I have time arguing in favor of old 16:9 plasma sets when brand new ones (like the Samsung 43 and 51") sets have pretty good 240p handling.

Yes the Samsung's 240p processing is nice indeed.
I just wish it could display emulated scanlines

[tacoguy64]

Hi

Just got a JVC DT-v1710CG, and while it goes really superb when using component signal from the PS2, im having some issues whit other consoles which outputs RGB signal.

For the moment, im using a selfmade scart-to-bnc adapter, which goes plain, r to r, g to g, b to b, and im using composite signal for sync (grounds are common). The thing is that, while the image is razor sharp when using composite, it lacks definition when using RGB (kind of composite blurriness, but not so heavy)

It maybe because of the composite signal? Maybe i have to strip the signal to pure sync using for example an lm1881?

I have no clue, and i would like to keep the monitor, as i bought it virtually new.

Do anyone have this monitor and can give me a hand? Any hints are welcome!

Thank you in advance

What input card are you using with that monitor? AFAIK there where only two rgb input cards that worked with that monitor. Im thinking that the composite signal dont mix with the rgb cables but i could be wrong. If you go back to page 79 or 80 of this thread you can find more about those cards. A bit of warning that they are very expensive. Even more so than the monitor. I've been looking for an rgb input card for a while now.

[Ed Oscuro]

When I looked into the JVC's input boards, I recall finding that one was for SDI and the other was analog component - don't recall any limitation on RGBs or YPbPr. Not carrying YPbPr wouldn't make any sense.

[system11]

So my test bench monitor died today, not a very good one so it's no huge loss.

I'm looking at PVM/BVM - I see some are tagged as U and NTSC, some are tagged E for PAL......

Is there actually any difference and what are peoples experiences if the prime use is straight RGB from PCBs?

[nissling]

Only major differences between European, Japanese and American PVMs/BVMs are the power supplies from my experience. The actual monitors should be the same if only the region differs. Some non European models may lack language options.

[Fudoh]

The phosphors used on the BVMs differ between the regions (SMTPE for NTSC, EBU for PAL). That's actually the main difference. At least on the BVM the power supplies are univeral and you certainly don't have to care about the phosphors in use.

The BVM don't have PAL/NTSC decoders installed by default, so color encoding doesn't matter and you if you need composite (or s-video) you can add a NTSC decoder to an E model just as easy as a PAL decoder to an U model.

[nissling]

At least on the BVM the power supplies are univeral

My BVM-20F1J at least says on the back that it only takes 100-120V. Haven't tried 230V for this reason. Not sure however if the PSU can actually take 230V though.

[system11]

Do they have picture adjustment for position + size?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-BVM-14G5 ... 1922552892

I'm looking at something a bit like this, it's for my test bench so anything over 14" is going to be way too big.

[Fudoh]

of course. Full digital controls. The G models have less convergence controls than the F models though.

[Ed Oscuro]

There is a difference between color rendering between the SMPTE and EBU phosphors (I saw a side-by-side comparison somewhere, but this will do in describing the difference[/url]), but if I was used to EBU phosphors and could only get PAL equipment at a good price, I'd stick with those.

At least on the BVM the power supplies are univeral

My BVM-20F1J at least says on the back that it only takes 100-120V. Haven't tried 230V for this reason. Not sure however if the PSU can actually take 230V though.

You can trust those ratings. Don't use that set on 230V. FWIW, at least some later PVMs (i.e., PVM-20L5 and PVM-20L2) have an input voltage range of 100-240V.

[system11]

I just noticed in the manual for that 14G, it lists the maximum frequency as 50hz o.O

[Fudoh]

to my knowledge there are no PAL-only BVMs, so this might refer to something else or it just assumes that you feed a PAL signal.