Irem PCBs and leaking capacitors - M92/M107

[system11]

And the price differential between Japanese brand name caps like Panasonic and the cheap Chinese ones is really small anyway when you're talking about a total of about 18 capacitors. I always get Panasonic myself just because they're easy to obtain in the UK.

[mastercello]

Three down, three more to go...one had really nasty stuff underneath one capacitor.
The three ones done where leaking already, the other three ones have no visual leaking still - but I will change them anyway within the next couple of days.

What I experienced was that almost all of the C209 & C236 where leaking.
But also some other ones (C202 & C213).

Thanks James for the thread here and on your blog!

[Green beret]

ok thanks but where could the wavy lines come from. gotta has something to do with the graphic chip. where is it located on the board?

I have 4 M92 games and 3 of them have this wavy lines. I had once a Korean M92 and I noticed this wavy effect first time there. After selling it and building slowly only Japanese M92s, only my Undercover Cops isn't wavy. I do have the issue on: In the Hunt, R-type Leo, Hook. The korean M92 was a Ninja Baseball batman and I thought it is wavy because there are many caps missing from the front of the pcb and maybe they were filters those missing caps.
Anybody know where wavy lines come from?

[rtw]

ok thanks but where could the wavy lines come from. gotta has something to do with the graphic chip. where is it located on the board?

I have 4 M92 games and 3 of them have this wavy lines. I had once a Korean M92 and I noticed this wavy effect first time there. After selling it and building slowly only Japanese M92s, only my Undercover Cops isn't wavy. I do have the issue on: In the Hunt, R-type Leo, Hook. The korean M92 was a Ninja Baseball batman and I thought it is wavy because there are many caps missing from the front of the pcb and maybe they were filters those missing caps.
Anybody know where wavy lines come from?

Show us a picture of the wavy lines, and tell is what kind of cabinet and PSU you are using.

[Green beret]

ok thanks but where could the wavy lines come from. gotta has something to do with the graphic chip. where is it located on the board?

I have 4 M92 games and 3 of them have this wavy lines. I had once a Korean M92 and I noticed this wavy effect first time there. After selling it and building slowly only Japanese M92s, only my Undercover Cops isn't wavy. I do have the issue on: In the Hunt, R-type Leo, Hook. The korean M92 was a Ninja Baseball batman and I thought it is wavy because there are many caps missing from the front of the pcb and maybe they were filters those missing caps.
Anybody know where wavy lines come from?

Show us a picture of the wavy lines, and tell is what kind of cabinet and PSU you are using.

On the picture they can't show. I am using a Sigma Raijin control box and the PSU works in 220 volts. Please mind my Undercover Cops doesn't have the wavy image or it is filtered better somehow and can't be seen. If you have a M92 and go in test menu in solid colors screen, they are visible in pink, yellow, white and pale green. In game they can be spotted in pale brown parts of a game.

[rtw]

On the picture they can't show. I am using a Sigma Raijin control box and the PSU works in 220 volts. Please mind my Undercover Cops doesn't have the wavy image or it is filtered better somehow and can't be seen. If you have a M92 and go in test menu in solid colors screen, they are visible in pink, yellow, white and pale green. In game they can be spotted in pale brown parts of a game.

To avoid derailing this thread, please create a new thread in the hardware section, then post the link here.

Snap hi-res pictures of the PCB which has no wavy-lines and then the one which has.

[Green beret]

I have 5 M92 boards and only one has green caps. Tried yesterday to replace some brown caps but it was too difficult. The negative leg of the c236 100uf 25v couldn't desolder....So I left it there and solder the new one on it. Then tried another cap to see if this difficulty is going on further and yes, the negative leg of the one 47uf also refused to desolder.
How can I desolder those without damaging the board. In both caps the positive leg desoldered as normal.
One of my boards had been damaged from someone else while he probably tried to desolder the c236 cap too. He destroyed the hole and then bypassed it and soldered straight on the trace itself. Seems he had the same problem as me.
Any tip from the experts?

[system11]

Yeah this happens in 2 cases:

1) bad soldering iron
2) corrosion has affected the solder

You can make it easier by actually heating and adding solder, this will greatly help a reflow all the way through and thus removal.

The easiest way to remove them is cut the capacitor off since it stops the cap itself becoming a source of heatsinking. If you can't do it, get someone who can to do it. You can cause quite a bit of damage roughly pulling the legs through from the top.

[Green beret]

Yeah this happens in 2 cases:

1) bad soldering iron
2) corrosion has affected the solder

You can make it easier by actually heating and adding solder, this will greatly help a reflow all the way through and thus removal.

The easiest way to remove them is cut the capacitor off since it stops the cap itself becoming a source of heatsinking. If you can't do it, get someone who can to do it. You can cause quite a bit of damage roughly pulling the legs through from the top.

On the c236 maybe some corrosion had affected the solder but the second cap had nice and shiny solder. I tried a reflow with no luck. I have to visit an expert because no way I want to cause any damage in the holes.
Have you ever recapped a M92?

[system11]

Yeah this happens in 2 cases:

1) bad soldering iron
2) corrosion has affected the solder

You can make it easier by actually heating and adding solder, this will greatly help a reflow all the way through and thus removal.

The easiest way to remove them is cut the capacitor off since it stops the cap itself becoming a source of heatsinking. If you can't do it, get someone who can to do it. You can cause quite a bit of damage roughly pulling the legs through from the top.

On the c236 maybe some corrosion had affected the solder but the second cap had nice and shiny solder. I tried a reflow with no luck. I have to visit an expert because no way I want to cause any damage in the holes.
Have you ever recapped a M92?

Loads of them, with and without corrosion. No I don't do it for money The reason the negative leg is harder is because it's soldered to the ground plane inside the PCB layers, which acts like a heatsink meaning you need an iron capable or delivering quite a lot of heat in a small area quickly. I tend to run my iron around 395 degrees for these and use a pointed tip. Trying to remove the cap intact or hit it with a de-soldering iron is nearly hopeless on these ones.

[Green beret]

Yeah this happens in 2 cases:

1) bad soldering iron
2) corrosion has affected the solder

You can make it easier by actually heating and adding solder, this will greatly help a reflow all the way through and thus removal.

The easiest way to remove them is cut the capacitor off since it stops the cap itself becoming a source of heatsinking. If you can't do it, get someone who can to do it. You can cause quite a bit of damage roughly pulling the legs through from the top.

On the c236 maybe some corrosion had affected the solder but the second cap had nice and shiny solder. I tried a reflow with no luck. I have to visit an expert because no way I want to cause any damage in the holes.
Have you ever recapped a M92?

Loads of them, with and without corrosion. No I don't do it for money The reason the negative leg is harder is because it's soldered to the ground plane inside the PCB layers, which acts like a heatsink meaning you need an iron capable or delivering quite a lot of heat in a small area quickly. I tend to run my iron around 395 degrees for these and use a pointed tip. Trying to remove the cap intact or hit it with a de-soldering iron is nearly hopeless on these ones.

Great! Thank you for the info! My soldering station looks like wsd80 weller but it is a clone worth 65€. I tried with temperature on maximum 450c but no luck. The expert in my town has an original wsd80 weller though. From what you are saying it is possible to ask him to remove the legs I left on the c236 in 2 of my boards. Right?

[system11]

Yeah, anyone with good soldering skills can do a clean job without damaging it.

Note that *all* the brown capacitors are potentially deadly though, I recap the entire sound section using the parts list in my original post.

[Green beret]

Yeah, anyone with good soldering skills can do a clean job without damaging it.

Note that *all* the brown capacitors are potentially deadly though, I recap the entire sound section using the parts list in my original post.

So all these are for the sound department?
I change these:
M92
470uf / 25v - C202
220uf / 10v - C203
100uf / 25v - C209, C236
47uf / 16v - C213
22uf / 25v - C204
1uf / 50v - C201, C210, C215, C216, C217, C218, C219

[system11]

If they are brown ELNA - yes.

If you are not great at soldering, get someone else to do it who is. I can get a close to factory look on boards which haven't leaked yet. With corrosion it is harder to achieve that look (sometimes impossible).

Here's an In The Hunt I did before I sold it:

[Green beret]

If they are brown ELNA - yes.

If you are not great at soldering, get someone else to do it who is. I can get a close to factory look on boards which haven't leaked yet. With corrosion it is harder to achieve that look (sometimes impossible).

Here's an In The Hunt I did before I sold it:

You are great!! Looks like factory. What soldering equipment do you use?
What was the picture of it. Was it wavy? My only non wavy is Undercover Cops and the only difference is it has green caps. All with brown caps ELNA have a wavy picture if you look very carefully. If off topic sorry but somehow I connect waves with brown caps.

[rtw]

My only non wavy is Undercover Cops and the only difference is it has green caps. All with brown caps ELNA have a wavy picture if you look very carefully. If off topic sorry but somehow I connect waves with brown caps.

What happens with the wavy picture when you change the volume ?

[Green beret]

My only non wavy is Undercover Cops and the only difference is it has green caps. All with brown caps ELNA have a wavy picture if you look very carefully. If off topic sorry but somehow I connect waves with brown caps.

What happens with the wavy picture when you change the volume ?

I found out how the image becomes wavy!!!
If I touch the volume control or the cap next to it or the metal body of my Signa Raijin control box....It doesn't matter the volume level. It only happens if I touch. II also happens if I touch the pcb near the volume control. In undercover Cops it isn't visible when I touch the Metal body of the Sigma (or it is barely visible) but it becomes visible there too if I touch the cap next to the volume control.
It doesn't happen when I touch the joystick and buttons.
What's the problem with M92 and the ground?

[rtw]

My only non wavy is Undercover Cops and the only difference is it has green caps. All with brown caps ELNA have a wavy picture if you look very carefully. If off topic sorry but somehow I connect waves with brown caps.

What happens with the wavy picture when you change the volume ?

I found out how the image becomes wavy!!!
If I touch the volume control or the cap next to it or the metal body of my Signa Raijin control box....It doesn't matter the volume level. It only happens if I touch. II also happens if I touch the pcb near the volume control. In undercover Cops it isn't visible when I touch the Metal body of the Sigma (or it is barely visible) but it becomes visible there too if I touch the cap next to the volume control.
It doesn't happen when I touch the joystick and buttons.
What's the problem with M92 and the ground?

From the pictures at Otaku the Signa Raijin does not have GROUND / FG so the system is floating. Are you using a 240V to 110V converter for the Signa Raijin ?

What kind of monitor setup do you have ?

[Green beret]

I have adjusted the sigma to work on 240v. The power cable has only 2 pins, not 3 for ground. I have a step down converter to 110v if needed. I have to open Sigma to adjust to 110v and try. Other boards don't have this issue. I tried a CPS but it's perfect.
My monitor is a Sony BVM 1416p.
What can I do to have a proper ground?

[rtw]

I have adjusted the sigma to work on 240v. The power cable has only 2 pins, not 3 for ground. I have a step down converter to 110v if needed. I have to open Sigma to adjust to 110v and try. Other boards don't have this issue. I tried a CPS but it's perfect.
My monitor is a Sony BVM 1416p.
What can I do to have a proper ground?

What do you mean you have adjusted it to 240V ? Did you put in a new power supply unit ?

[Green beret]

I have adjusted the sigma to work on 240v. The power cable has only 2 pins, not 3 for ground. I have a step down converter to 110v if needed. I have to open Sigma to adjust to 110v and try. Other boards don't have this issue. I tried a CPS but it's perfect.
My monitor is a Sony BVM 1416p.
What can I do to have a proper ground?

What do you mean you have adjusted it to 240V ? Did you put in a new power supply unit ?

On the Signa's PSU there is a switch 110v or 240v...

[rtw]

I have adjusted the sigma to work on 240v. The power cable has only 2 pins, not 3 for ground. I have a step down converter to 110v if needed. I have to open Sigma to adjust to 110v and try. Other boards don't have this issue. I tried a CPS but it's perfect.
My monitor is a Sony BVM 1416p.
What can I do to have a proper ground?

What do you mean you have adjusted it to 240V ? Did you put in a new power supply unit ?

On the Signa's PSU there is a switch 110v or 240v...

OK, please take a photo of the front of the PSU so we can see the wiring.

[Green beret]

I am not at home to take a pic right now but I found a pic from my file that looks maybe the ground is not connected?
https://imageshack.com/i/eyqGmNg7j
This is the pinout
https://imageshack.com/i/id3XiZ6yj
If it doesn't tell anything when I go home in 5-6 hours I will take a pic of the PSU.
I remember some time when I was touching the metal case there was a current bothering my hand. I don't remember if it was when I used to have the Raijin switched to 110v. That current was when connected to power socket but switched off. I will test and update when home.
I can confirm the foot is mine

[rtw]

If it doesn't tell anything when I go home in 5-6 hours I will take a pic of the PSU.
I remember some time when I was touching the metal case there was a current bothering my hand. I don't remember if it was when I used to have the Raijin switched to 110v. That current was when connected to power socket but switched off. I will test and update when home.
I can confirm the foot is mine

Can't really see anything from this picture, when you get home please take a picture of:

. The PSU
. The PSU connections
. The actual JAMMA connector

[Green beret]

If it doesn't tell anything when I go home in 5-6 hours I will take a pic of the PSU.
I remember some time when I was touching the metal case there was a current bothering my hand. I don't remember if it was when I used to have the Raijin switched to 110v. That current was when connected to power socket but switched off. I will test and update when home.
I can confirm the foot is mine

Can't really see anything from this picture, when you get home please take a picture of:

. The PSU
. The PSU connections
. The actual JAMMA connector

Ok I will do. Thank you very much

[Green beret]

Opened a new thread for this matter called Sigma Raijin and Irem M92 ground leak

[Green beret]

Yeah this happens in 2 cases:

1) bad soldering iron
2) corrosion has affected the solder

You can make it easier by actually heating and adding solder, this will greatly help a reflow all the way through and thus removal.

The easiest way to remove them is cut the capacitor off since it stops the cap itself becoming a source of heatsinking. If you can't do it, get someone who can to do it. You can cause quite a bit of damage roughly pulling the legs through from the top.

On the c236 maybe some corrosion had affected the solder but the second cap had nice and shiny solder. I tried a reflow with no luck. I have to visit an expert because no way I want to cause any damage in the holes.
Have you ever recapped a M92?

Loads of them, with and without corrosion. No I don't do it for money The reason the negative leg is harder is because it's soldered to the ground plane inside the PCB layers, which acts like a heatsink meaning you need an iron capable or delivering quite a lot of heat in a small area quickly. I tend to run my iron around 395 degrees for these and use a pointed tip. Trying to remove the cap intact or hit it with a de-soldering iron is nearly hopeless on these ones.

Now that the ground issue is resolved I have to proceed and replace ELNA brown death caps in my 4 boards. The expert here in my town wants to avoid to change them for me and he is telling me excuses. He pissed me off. I have to take the fate of these boards in my hands. I can solder good enough if I have a right tool.
Please can you recommend me a soldering tool for this case?
Thank you in advance

[system11]

You'll need a temperature controlled soldering iron with changeable tips (you want a pointed tip for this), some fine cutting pliers and a vacuum desoldering iron - preferably a proper driven type instead of those useless manual solder sucker ones.

It's expensive.

I use a Xytronics solder/desolder station.

[Green beret]

You'll need a temperature controlled soldering iron with changeable tips (you want a pointed tip for this), some fine cutting pliers and a vacuum desoldering iron - preferably a proper driven type instead of those useless manual solder sucker ones.

It's expensive.

I use a Xytronics solder/desolder station.

Thank you for answering! Sounds you are greatly organized! Even if I would buy a Weller WDS 81i SE at 350€, I would need a vacuum desoldering iron which is very expensive too!
I will let you know what I have decided.

[rtw]

Thank you for answering! Sounds you are greatly organized! Even if I would buy a Weller WDS 81i SE at 350€, I would need a vacuum desoldering iron which is very expensive too!
I will let you know what I have decided.

There is a simpler solution, I will outline another technique Monday. However you still need a temperature controlled solder iron, solder, tips, copper ball and a desoldering wick.