Select your machine

[Captain]

Just a bit of inquiry about playstyle choices, with slightly deeper analysis as a reason.

As for me, I've always preferred the speedier ships, powerful precise weapons, and I tend to stay away from automatic weaponry.

Playing as a fast ship that takes care of enemies "personally" always makes me feel more skilled for some reason.

[Bananamatic]

the anime girl with huge tits

[Squire Grooktook]

The anime girl with the delicious flat chest.

Blue hair is also preferable.

Fast ships are most fun for me, but only if the speed is just fast enough to feel "thrilling" but just slow enough to feel comfortable during patterns.

[Pretas]

Voted 1-1, 2-1, 3-2, and 4-2.

[Captain]

the anime girl with huge tits

So thats everything ever these days.

[Despatche]

not voting

i believe that the most major examples of pointblanking are either 1. score-based and so have their own rules or 2. handled poorly, such as in raiden where the laser is rarely used and most of those uses are for what i guess is a glitch

ok actually i'm kinda mad that "survival-based scoring system" is already losing, because i know damn well that there is only one person who can honestly vote against it

[emphatic]

Slow ship, wide shot.

[Squire Grooktook]

I feel like the scoring system question needs a more neutral-ish alternative.

I think a purely survival based scoring system is fine for certain types of games, oldschool shooters that are better without a lot of mechanical clutter and whatnot. On the other hand, it's probably not as good for something like a Cave shooter.

[Captain]

Why not?

I wouldn't have anything against disregarding the existing scoring and focusing on a no-miss.

[LordHypnos]

I pretty much always go for fast powerful low range ships, e.g. Mosquito 2 in Mars Matrix or Crueltear in Exelica. I don't know that it's actually a good idea for me, because a lot of times I end up struggling with tighter patterns that way, but I do enjoy it more.

I also prefer scoring systems that are not based on Survival, just because that's a little more interesting to me though it's not like I've played a ton of games for score. I just get annoyed by things like the multiplier getting reduced in Exelica when you die. Makes execution much more frustrating. While there are a few areas in Mars Matrix (for example) that require that level of execution (stage 3 chain), in general dying is something you can afford to do at a lot of points in the game when trying to score.

As for questions 2 or 3, I feel a lot more neutral. I tend to like melee weapons in shmups, but not necessarily getting right up next to enemies with a normal shot (unless touching them doesn't kill you). I'd say it varies from game to game, but I lean toward not liking to have to point blank enemies. That being said a lot of times I play overly aggressive in games where that's not a safe strategy. As for weapons that have ridiculous coverage (I'm thinking stuff like Reimu A in MoF) it really varies. Some weapons are a lot more fun to use than that (Marisa A for example), and I'd probably opt for those when present. Still though, I tend to not like having to aim too much, so I don't much like weapons that are kind of weak and focused (example: Under Defeat normal shot. Yes, I get that UD is like that because it wants you to use the subweapons a lot). I'd probably choose something in between full on homing that's exclusively about dodging and weak shots that require a lot of aiming. Mosquito 2, for example, in Mars Matrix doesn't have much coverage, but if you're moving across the screen a lot it actually kind of does (because it kind of spreads it out), and it's powerful enough that you usually kill enemies quickly with it. Marisa A in Mountain of faith has a lot of coverage in spite of not being quite as automatic as Reimu A.

[iconoclast]

ok actually i'm kinda mad that "survival-based scoring system" is already losing, because i know damn well that there is only one person who can honestly vote against it

Not really.

"If a game's scoring is solely based on not dying, then you consider it a bad system."

That's basically Mushihimesama's Original mode, which is the most shallow and uninteresting game Cave ever made. Scoring systems exist to give a game value beyond a simple 1cc. If survival is just one of the factors in scoring (like most of IKD's games), then it's good.

[o.pwuaioc]

Yeah, I voted based on some assumptions that are desperately needed to be made explicit in the questions.

My votes: 1.1, 2.1, 3.2, 4.2.

For question 3, I'm emphasizing the "only", while in question 4, I'm replacing "solely" with "mostly". Otherwise my answers would be reversed.

[BIL]

After much thought, I've chosen my machine.

Spoiler

PROS: destroy evidence.
CONS: no bomb.

[Ed Oscuro]

LEG UNITS

The answer is LEG UNITS

[Captain]

Updated and clarifed some stuff.

Added a new question.

Let the revotening begin.

[Shepardus]

Whatever Cho Ren Sha's ship counts as.

[CloudyMusic]

ok actually i'm kinda mad that "survival-based scoring system" is already losing, because i know damn well that there is only one person who can honestly vote against it

Not really.

"If a game's scoring is solely based on not dying, then you consider it a bad system."

That's basically Mushihimesama's Original mode, which is the most shallow and uninteresting game Cave ever made. Scoring systems exist to give a game value beyond a simple 1cc. If survival is just one of the factors in scoring (like most of IKD's games), then it's good.

Pretty much my thoughts on that one. If 90%+ of your score comes from end-of-game life stock bonus, that's an instant interest-killer for me. There needs to be something else there.

[Stompp]

1-4: 1, 5: 2. I seem to agree with most others on the first four questions but when it comes to ship speed/control I'd opt for less speed and more fluent. Guess it has to do with my suckiness dodging tight patterns

[Squire Grooktook]

Cho Ren Sha 68k is probably the closest thing I can think of to a purely survival based scoring system that has depth.

On hard, rng bullets are everywhere, and no miss-no bombing everything takes pretty iron nerves. Fair amount of depth and replayability there.

Although it's not based solely on survival. You also have the power up ring center trick to contend which, which are quite unique. There's a very small amount of milking on some bosses, a few secret bosses and extra enemy waves, and killing everything without bombing can be quite tricky sometimes.

[1up]

So basically A-L or C-S and Garegga or Dodonpachi...

[S_Fang]

Something balanced: fast enough to macro-dodge and fluent movements; wide enough to clean he screen easier and powerful enough when I point blank the enemies.
If its also looks cool, then go for it.

[Lobinden]

Whatever Cho Ren Sha's ship counts as.

I have to agree with this.

[Cuilan]

It's difficult for me to answer this question, since it really depends on how a shooter combines these elements with the other gameplay systems and enemy types/placement. Though I will say that I have yet to encounter a point-blanking system that I've actually enjoyed.

the anime girl with huge tits

the anime girl who is actually a boy

[Despatche]

That's basically Mushihimesama's Original mode, which is the most shallow and uninteresting game Cave ever made. Scoring systems exist to give a game value beyond a simple 1cc. If survival is just one of the factors in scoring (like most of IKD's games), then it's good.

Pretty much my thoughts on that one. If 90%+ of your score comes from end-of-game life stock bonus, that's an instant interest-killer for me. There needs to be something else there.

"something else" that you're not even going to get involved with that much! there is one person, and it is not either of you; also, it is only one person because that individual has openly shown their stance.

i actually know this is false. i have never played mushi in my life and i know for a fact that mushi and futari original are probably the hardest modes to play correctly (maybe after futari ultra, but you have to be a gus to stand ultra). you can go on about "uninteresting" all you want, but that's opinionated and dishonest.

i really don't understand how people can give survival so much respect, but then turn around and tell others that they're not allowed to have a predominantly survival-based game, because it's "boring". that's seriously messed up! it's a pure opinion that's trying to dominate choice, and it's easy ammo for the people who go on about the 1cc just being a "playstyle" instead of the whole point.

this is the kind of stuff that keeps this genre so niche, above all else.

[Lord Satori]

I thought question 4 was about a suicide strat. I realized I was wrong when it was too late.

[CloudyMusic]

"something else" that you're not even going to get involved with that much! there is one person, and it is not either of you; also, it is only one person because that individual has openly shown their stance.

i actually know this is false. i have never played mushi in my life and i know for a fact that mushi and futari original are probably the hardest modes to play correctly (maybe after futari ultra, but you have to be a gus to stand ultra). you can go on about "uninteresting" all you want, but that's opinionated and dishonest.

My opinion is my opinion; I personally don't find games where survival is the be-all-end-all for scoring to be interesting or very good at capturing my attention. I'm sorry if you disagree. Attempting to "disprove" my opinion as though this is some kind of system of logical equations at the end of which I'll go "ah ha! You're right! I've changed my mind, because I can't possibly feel that way" is naive at best, and just looking to stir up shit at worst.

Have fun with whatever it is you're attempting to do.