shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:48 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Should Metal Slug be classified as a shmup?
Yes. It meets all of the requirments. 17%  17%  [ 12 ]
No. It's just too different. 83%  83%  [ 57 ]
Total votes : 69
Author Message
 Post subject: Metal Slug a shmup? Wikipedia thinks so.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:23 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 189
Location: Ft Smith, AR USA
I just noticed that Wikipedia has Metal Slug classified as a shoot 'em up (link). They make no mention of it being part of the run 'n gun contra clones like most reviewers make it out to be.

And I agree. Metal Slug has a total different look & feel than Contra. And it shouldn't be excluded because part of the game is played by a character on foot - shmup vehicals are there, you just have to find them. And I think that if Metal Slug came out before Contra, it would have been added to our shmup lists right next to classics like Gradius & R-type.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:33 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 151
I vote no, but I'm leaning towards some sort of hybrid. It's primarily a Contra-style run-n-gun, but far more frantic, and there's vehicles. But, from what I've played, it's missing ship-to-ship combat typically found in shmups.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:42 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 927
Location: Youngstown OH, USA
Gravity and forced scrolling make all the difference. I love my run n' guns, and I love my shmups, but they're drastically different.
_________________
Image
now tighter than your sister


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:50 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 238
Location: NYC
Hair-splitting genre-wrangling, GO!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:54 pm 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 2952
tetratepectilotrichotomia, jiji, tetrapectilotrichotomia!
_________________
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:19 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 379
Location: RLC Jr.
Honestly, the term "shmup" is a little vague (although it is catchy). A lot of people would call Metal Slug a "run n gun". As far as shooters go, I usually say vert / horizontal scroller. ;)
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:34 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 1070
Location: Harman's Room
From what I read in wiki, they called it a shoot 'em up, and not a shmup. I'm cool if someone calls it that and not a shmup.
I'm really picking hairs with that one, but that's just what I think. I'd rather call it a run 'n gunner, though.

In other wiki business, I created an Alien Soldier article a few weeks ago in early December with two sentences, now it's a big ole article. Some asshat added its rarity is on par with Gunstar Heroes, though, bah. Pretty neat to think it grew so quickly, though. Even pics are in there.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:33 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 1425
Location: Chi-town, IL
I don't think the term "run 'n' gun" exists anywhere outside this forum. To most people Contra and Gradius belong in the same genre.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:20 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 499
Location: England
you shoot, you collect power ups, its in 2d (ok not a real requirement).

what more of a definition of a shoot em up do you want?

i agree with Andi
_________________
001


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:26 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1377
Location: Sweden
Andi wrote:
I don't think the term "run 'n' gun" exists anywhere outside this forum.
Ofcourse it does, it's a wide-spread term. And since it gives me a way to tell two different subgenres apart, I'll stick with it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:38 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 760
Location: Bay Area
Nope. I consider the Metal Slug series to be an action platformer, just like the Mega Man series. You're not supposed to be able jump in a shmup. If you can do more than just shoot, bomb and dodge bullets, then it is not a shmup. Shmups and action platformers are two different kinds of genres.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:44 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 189
Location: Ft Smith, AR USA
extrarice wrote:
I vote no, but I'm leaning towards some sort of hybrid. It's primarily a Contra-style run-n-gun, but far more frantic, and there's vehicles. But, from what I've played, it's missing ship-to-ship combat typically found in shmups.

There's lots of instances of ship to ship combat in Metal Slug. Here's a nice picture gallery of Metal Slug 3 from start to finish.

http://spoonman.roarvgm.com/neogeo/ms3gallery/hi.htm

At one point, it even becomes a vertical shooter. :D


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:25 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 4413
To me, Metal Slug = sidescroller

Somebody should find the Brit who came up with the term "shmup" or whoever first coined the phrase "shoot 'em up" and have him say what he meant by the term.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:49 am 



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 16
Yea, Metal Slug is no shmup. Its not about vehicular combat, as theres plenty of shmups where you just play as people. I think to be a real shmup you need forced scrolling and no limit on movement(I.E. no gravity). And even if it were about vehicular combat, vehicles may be featured, but the amount of onfoot action outweighs vehicular combat, and we don't assign genres based upon the minority of gameplay time(why don't we call Mario Party a racing game since it has a few racing minigames?). Sure there are segments of Metal Slug that strongly resemble hori. and vert. shmups, but they are not the norm throughout the game, the onfoot action platformer gameplay is. Therefore, as others have said, Metal Slug is an action platformer, or what some call a "run n' gun" game just as contra is. Metal Slug isn't even really more "manic" or "far more frantic" than Contra as one person said, as anybody who has played an actual arcade Contra knows they are diffinently on the more hardcore end the genre spectrum. As a friend of mine once said, "Everybody says they love contra... until they play it."


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:59 am 


User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 553
Location: Merry Land
I say "Metal Slug" and "shooter" together. But that's just me.

I fully agree that it's not a pure shmup or shoot 'em up in the strictest sense though. But what do I care? It's one of my all-time favorite series in video gaming.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:18 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 12355
Location: Wherever.
Randorama wrote:
tetratepectilotrichotomia, jiji, tetrapectilotrichotomia!

Gesundheit. :mrgreen: *hands Rando a tissue*
_________________
"Fight me IRL if you want to man up so badly."
Glossary / Discussion / The Bizaar / Vasara HS


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:02 am 


User avatar

Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 28
Its a... jump'n'shoot. "Run'n'gun" is silly, because there isn't a run button (usually) :P


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:38 am 


User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 553
Location: Merry Land
oNyx wrote:
Its a... jump'n'shoot. "Run'n'gun" is silly, because there isn't a run button (usually) :P


Yeah, but gun rhymes with run.

It has to roll off the tongue. Think man!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:25 am 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 4387
Location: Berlin, Germany
As far as I'm concerned, if you shoot stuff, it can be called a "Shooter".

oNyx wrote:
Its a... jump'n'shoot. "Run'n'gun" is silly, because there isn't a run button (usually) :P


Yes there is. Hold right to run.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:52 am 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 2952
BulletMagnet wrote:
Randorama wrote:
tetratepectilotrichotomia, jiji, tetrapectilotrichotomia!

Gesundheit. :mrgreen: *hands Rando a tissue*


;_;! *cuts an hair in our parts!*
_________________
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:13 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 929
Location: Burbank, CA
There, I fixed it. Now we can stop all the arguing.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:08 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 3725
Location: Almere, Netherlands
Metal Slug is a platform game.
Run and gun is used so it is not looked upon as a mario or sonic game

I voted "it meets all requirements to be a shmup", couln't resist.
_________________
Pixel_Outlaw wrote:
Good, hopefully it will return us to the dark ages of gaming where multiple people could play on one television and you actually had to have real friends.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:39 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 189
Location: Ft Smith, AR USA
Ganelon wrote:
To me, Metal Slug = sidescroller

Somebody should find the Brit who came up with the term "shmup" or whoever first coined the phrase "shoot 'em up" and have him say what he meant by the term.

I believe that it was coined by the press in the early 80's as a way to describe the space shooters that were popular in the acades at the time. Here's some early 80's shoot 'em ups.

Space Invaders
Galaxians
Galaga
Gorf
Phoenix
Xevious
Defender
Stargate
Moon Patrol
Scramble
Vanguard
Berzerk
Robotron
Asteroids
Zaxxon

And rumor has it that the acnonym "shmup" was first used by the editors of Zzap!64 (a C64 mag) which was first published in 1985.

Well.... by the old definition, Metal Slug (and even Contra for that matter) would be classified as a shoot 'em up. Metal Slug is just a combination of Defender & Robotron, with a bit of Moon Patrol tossed in.

Oh... guess what? Contra Hard Corps is included in our own xenocide files. Link. I guess that it was so good on the Genesis that it got annexed. :P


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:55 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 4413
Yeah, that was in the old days when people didn't care as much about the definition of the term...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:11 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 28
subcons wrote:
oNyx wrote:
Its a... jump'n'shoot. "Run'n'gun" is silly, because there isn't a run button (usually) :P


Yeah, but gun rhymes with run.

It has to roll off the tongue. Think man!


Oh yea... "shmup" doesnt seem to roll of the tongue at all :P

Seven Force wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, if you shoot stuff, it can be called a "Shooter".


So... super mario bros and castlevania are shooters, because you can shoot stuff? Oh and ocarina of time and beyond good and evil then, too. Oh and wipeout and mariokart :>

Seven Force wrote:
oNyx wrote:
Its a... jump'n'shoot. "Run'n'gun" is silly, because there isn't a run button (usually) :P


Yes there is. Hold right to run.


There is a run-modifier button in mario bros. Well, you are running all the time, but in game terms its walking. Just look at doom... running there means flying with about 80 km/h.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:31 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 5082
Location: OHIO
Metal Slug and Contra are 2D shooters, but I think it is against ordinary usage to call them shmups.

To my mind there are two ordinary uses of the term "shmup."

1. A not-so-inclusive use.
2. An inclusive use.

Shmups are usually defined by reference to paradigm/exemplary cases. We say: "Shmups are games like Gradius, R-Type, and DoDonPachi." With the not-so-inclusive use, we are very strict about how similar the games must be to the paradigm cases. On this usage we do not allow even Robotron, Galaga, Space Invaders or Defender.

With the inclusive use of the term "shmup" we are less strict about how similar the games have to be to Gradius and R-Type. Indeed, on this more flexible use, we might even include Galaga and Space Invaders among the paradigm cases. This is the use that we employ when we have our Top 25 lists each year.

It seems to me that one could use the term "shmup" in an EVEN WIDER sense, and include Contra and Metal Slug. But this is NOT the ordinary usage. Why? Because "shmup" does not mean just 2D shooter. The term "shmup" is defined by reference to paradigm cases. Contra and Metal Slug just are very different from Gradius and R-Type.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:46 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 151
J-Manic wrote:
Nope. I consider the Metal Slug series to be an action platformer, just like the Mega Man series. You're not supposed to be able jump in a shmup. If you can do more than just shoot, bomb and dodge bullets, then it is not a shmup. Shmups and action platformers are two different kinds of genres.

Then what about The Guardian Legend? It's half vertical-scroller shmup, half Alien Syndrome overhead-puzzle-shooter-space-action.
http://www.classicgaming.com/shmups/guardianlegend/

(off-topic, I know)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:56 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Denver
I consider Metal Slug a Run-n-Gun the same way i think Shock Troopers and Ninja Commando are Run-n-Guns. I still think Shmup's are pretty much coined on whether you have a flying ship of some sort and not characters running and shooting on the ground...but thats just my opinion.
_________________
"ooh, ahh, thats how all this starts, but then theres running and screaming" -LW:Jurrassic Park-


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:57 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 1425
Location: Chi-town, IL
Alpolio wrote:
Oh... guess what? Contra Hard Corps is included in our own xenocide files. Link. I guess that it was so good on the Genesis that it got annexed. :P


A bunch of games that aren't recognized as shmups are - I think Smash TV is in there too.

I think shmup is a stupid phrase anyway. I feel embarassed saying it. I just say shooter and lump everything in there. I don't want to seem like some genre purist.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:03 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 412
Location: Southern California
Sundance wrote:
I consider Metal Slug a Run-n-Gun the same way i think Shock Troopers and Ninja Commando are Run-n-Guns. I still think Shmup's are pretty much coined on whether you have a flying ship of some sort and not characters running and shooting on the ground...but thats just my opinion.


What about Guwange? They are running and shooting on the ground in that.
_________________
My Collection
Currently playing: Research (sigh)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group