Modding an original Xbox

[evil_ash_xero]

Is there any downside to soft modding the original Xbox (the big black one)?

My modder tells me there isn't, other than not being able to get online.

What do you think?

[Glossectomy]

Online for them has been shut down for a good 5 years now.

There's no downside at all.

[evil_ash_xero]

That's what he says. Thanks.

[Monstermug]

The only downside to softmodding is a few original games can update the dash so you have to softmod it again. Games like time splitter 2 does it. So if u want to play original games it would be best to buy another xbox. They are cheap as chips anyway.

[evil_ash_xero]

I want to play original games...only, really.

How many games do this?
Is there a list?

[Ed Oscuro]

Do you mean original game discs or your backups? The sticking point in an Xbox is usually the DVD-ROM drive.

If I was getting a softmod done, I'd take the opportunity to look into replacing the hard drive with an IDE to CompactFlash adapter + a CF card - much better airflow potential, on top of everything else.

[SGGG2]

I'd recommend doing a TSOP mod. This allows you to flash the firmware without a modchip. I agree with Ed, Xbox's run kinda hot, upgrade the fan with a larger one and replace the HDD with an SSD or some other flash media. You'll probably need to reapply thermal paste on the processors and remove the clock capacitor before it explodes. The linked SATA adapter's the best one, you're taking a chance it may not work with another make.

http://www.biline.ca/xbox_mod.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cdR8Ryn4wE
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Inch ... ata+to+ide

[Ed Oscuro]

Speaking of things, I got a bunch of old graphics card specialty coolers that are supposed to work well on some Xboxes. Depends on the model of course - later Xboxes with just the CPU and case fans won't benefit IIRC.

[SGGG2]

Yeah, the Iceberq4 VGA cooling fan. I picked up a couple of these a year ago, haven't installed them yet.

[BazookaBen]

Good info guys. I'd definitely like to replace my Xbox's hard drive at some point, since I know it won't last forever.

So is it possible to softmod the Xbox, ghost the HDD on to a higher capacity HDD, then revert to an unmodded Xbox?

[SGGG2]

The problem is that it's near impossible to do an exact copy using the SATA adapter and I can't imagine using an old IDE drive or paying through the nose for a IDE SSD.

I ended up FTPing into the Xbox and copying everything to my Mac. Installed, formatted the SATA drive in the Xbox and FTP'd everything back. All of my DLC worked and almost all of the save data, with the exception of a save file or two.

Oh, you said unmodding. Not sure why you'd want to do that. You can always boot into the standard dash on a modded system, or remove the softmod entirely.

[BazookaBen]

The problem is that it's near impossible to do an exact copy using the SATA adapter and I can't imagine using an old IDE drive or paying through the nose for a IDE SSD.

I ended up FTPing into the Xbox and copying everything to my Mac. Installed, formatted the SATA drive in the Xbox and FTP'd everything back. All of my DLC worked and almost all of the save data, with the exception of a save file or two.

Well, used IDE drives are still pretty easy to find. I have 5 or 6 laying around the house. Have an 80GB in my PS2 that works great

The FTP method does sound pretty good though. Once you finish it, any new saves should work, right?

Oh, you said unmodding. Not sure why you'd want to do that. You can always boot into the standard dash on a modded system, or remove the softmod entirely.

Does booting into the standard dash prevent games like Timesplitters 2 overwriting the soft mod? Because that's all I'm worried about.

[SGGG2]

New saves work just fine. I'd recommend going with flash memory storage as heat is a major issue with the Original Xbox.

I've never heard of a game overwriting the softmod before, sorry. However, I used Splinter Cell to mod my system (install linux via save data) and ended up losing the saves for that title somehow.

[evil_ash_xero]

The guy that's helping with mine, recommended getting a new hard drive. So, I guess everyone is on the same page, with that.

[Monstermug]

I want to play original games...only, really.

How many games do this?
Is there a list?

I was told there was a list online but I couldn't find it. Not many games do this though but just to be safe I bought another xbox just for originals. I got 4 xbox for system link. Playing Halo 4 players each with their own screen is great fun.

[Konsolkongen]

If I understand correctly, the problem is that some games have an updated version (enables Xbox Live support) of the Xbox Dashboard, that will install when you enter the Xbox Live section of that game. I cannot remember if the games ask for permission before installing or not.

I know that UnleashX had a feature to back up the original dashboard, so you could restore it again, if you accidentally updated it. I think you would have to set UnleashX as the default boot up dashboard. Because you might not be able to load it easily if the original has been updated.

It's been many years since I've had these problems myself, and I can't remember all the details. But hopefully I've been of some help. I should say though, that I've never owned a soft-modded Xbox. I've only used ones with modchips myself, so there might be some differences here.

[SGGG2]

For all intents and purposes the TSOP mod is the same as having a modchip. It's straightforward enough to do provided you have the proper soldering equipment.

Softmod > TSOP mod > delete softmod.

[Endymion]

There really is no con to a softmod in the year 2015. The last dashboard update that Microsoft made for the original XBox was way back in November 2004. If you have ever played the game Halo 2 on this XBox, then you have this dashboard already. Literally every softmod has been updated to require this dashboard. If you don't have this dashboard, the softmod will not work, and there is literally no newer dashboard from Microsoft, so there is zero concern about automatically updating it at a later time and screwing anything up. If you aren't sure which dash you have, just go to your dashboard, select Settings, then System Info. Allow the legalese info to scroll to the bottom. Once there, if you see D: 1.00.5960.01 then you know you have the dashboard you need to softmod.

TSOP modding is a nifty thing to do, and can give you certain modchip functionality without having a modchip. Having said that, however, easily 90% or more of any body still using an original XBox does not need to TSOP mod in order to do what they would want to do, i.e. the additional functionality of either a modchip or a TSOP mod is really not necessary. I mean, if you have to ask "why would I want this," then you don't need it. It is easier to do than a modchip install, but in novice hands it can also brick an XBox. I really wouldn't recommend it to anybody nowadays. If you run into the roadblocks where a softmod's functionality ends then by all means, but until that happens, just softmod it. Chances are great that you will never miss not having a TSOP mod or a modchip.

Definitely get a new hard disk, and get a newer ATA cable for it also. Just using a new cable alone will speed up load times, and games load faster from the hard disk, whether you use the original or a newer one. Do not bother with an SSD. They aren't cost effective at all, and while internal drive seek times will of course be much faster, your games will not load significantly faster with an SSD versus a new platter drive + new cable & SATA adapter, if at all. Several people have already tested this at the XBox forums. The only real reason you would need or even want an SSD is if you were planning to remove the XBox from its original case and make a customized, smaller enclosure of your own, because an SSD will run cooler than a platter drive, and is smaller than the standard 3.5" drive also. But given how expensive an SSD is, you will get lots less space, and since you are doing this to play original XBox games, you'll wish you had more room when you run out of space more quickly. It is very easy to make a copy of your original drive, once you softmod it. All you need to do is run an XBox homebrew app called Chimp, with both drives connected it will just move stuff right over and you'll be in business. Chimp will lock the new drive with your EEPROM also.

[antron]

Can a softmod always be unbricked if it won't boot? For example with a corrupted dash?

[Endymion]

I guess a lot depends on how your install screws up. If you can boot to a game with a game DVD in the optical drive, you could be in business if you just follow the steps again with the same game that you used to start the autoinstaller from exploit.

I'm not sure how some problems would come about like this, but if you back up your EEPROM file, you can always manage to recreate your dashboard, whether using the same hard disk or a replacement. It's good practice to softmod then create a recovery disc that you can use to do this, in the very least, ftp that EEPROM file to your PC, even if you don't replace the hard disk.

[Ed Oscuro]

An SSD would indeed be overkill, but there are still good choices:

Compact Flash to IDE: PC Engines sells their 3.5" model for $2.80 USD. The most expensive CF to IDE adapter I see is $15 on Amazon, but most are much less. You can add a 32GB CF drive from SanDisk for less than $40.

SD to IDE: Even cheaper, as prices for these parts range from $5-$10 and possibly less, and SD cards are even cheaper.

I'm not sure if these adapters are small enough to allow mounting right at the IDE port, but with the right length cable or an adapter for 90 degree mounting you should be able to get very close.

[CkRtech]

I chipped my Xbox back way back in 2005 (Xecuter 2) and recently dusted it off to play some Burnout. Figuring I would hit up the net to see if there were any updates to the Evox/XBMC dashboard since 2007 <ahem>, I was surprised to see all of this talk of TSOP, softmod, etc. The hard drive in mine is still circa the 2005 era of ATA drives. I was considering a drive upgrade/fan upgrade/etc - more of an ultimate Xbox for 2015, but I didn't spend much time doing the research for it. It looks like you can even upgrade the processor if you want.

This thread has me close to wanting to bust it open and consider some upgrades (especially in the silencing department).

[antron]

I guess a lot depends on how your install screws up. If you can boot to a game with a game DVD in the optical drive, you could be in business if you just follow the steps again with the same game that you used to start the autoinstaller from exploit.

I'm not sure how some problems would come about like this, but if you back up your EEPROM file, you can always manage to recreate your dashboard, whether using the same hard disk or a replacement. It's good practice to softmod then create a recovery disc that you can use to do this, in the very least, ftp that EEPROM file to your PC, even if you don't replace the hard disk.

Then this an advantage of the TSOP. Once you achieve it no software screwup can ever brick you. It will always boot a disc to reinstall. No keys to keep, and your HD can be left unlocked.

[creamygarlicdip]

i don't know if people still play but one of my favourite things about the original xbox was LAN tunneling.

Networking it with a pc you could play games online via the xbox lan mode, it was the only way to play halo 1 online. lots of people used to play halo 1 and 2 online this way.

[Endymion]

Then this an advantage of the TSOP. Once you achieve it no software screwup can ever brick you. It will always boot a disc to reinstall. No keys to keep, and your HD can be left unlocked.

But you can still normally boot to a retail disc, just use the same one you use to do the exploit the first time and you are back in business again--even if you have to re-dump your EEPROM key. Hard drive unlocking is, indeed, one of those plusses that a mod chip or TSOP has, but it is so pitifully easy to lock a hard disk, particularly when you're almost certainly going to clone your drive anyway, that I'd never recommend TSOP before softmodding.

[antron]

I see, I was under the impression that if the retail bios couldn't find a signed default.xbe on a locked c drive (or a trick to get around it) it wouldn't boot a disc either.

[SGGG2]

Definitely get a new hard disk, and get a newer ATA cable for it also. Just using a new cable alone will speed up load times, and games load faster from the hard disk, whether you use the original or a newer one.

Thanks for bringing this up, I don't know how I forgot about it! Installing a 24" 100/133 IDE Cable speeds things up tremendously, every single Xbox owner needs to do this mod. Regarding SSD's, the advantage here's in reducing heat. I think a 128GB or 256GB SSD isn't all that unreasonable. Should be large enough for most users favorite titles and a bunch of ROMS if needed. That said, completists and ROM hoarders are going to want a large capacity drive.

It is very easy to make a copy of your original drive, once you softmod it. All you need to do is run an XBox homebrew app called Chimp, with both drives connected it will just move stuff right over and you'll be in business. Chimp will lock the new drive with your EEPROM also.

Unfortunately, IIRC the drive swap trick almost never works when an IDE/SATA adapters involved. Great if you're using an IDE drive, but I advocate using SATA.

[BazookaBen]

Thanks for all the info guys, will be indispensable when I go to mod my Xbox.

Endymion, do you have an online resource that has all this info collected in one spot? My primary goal is just to ghost to another IDE drive to have a backup, and then maybe getting a higher capacity SATA to actually load games to.

[Ed Oscuro]

Is there any particular reason for choosing an SSD over SD or CF? One thing I haven't found out is what the process for loading new files onto a drive is like, if people aren't just using a LAN like they used to.

Beyond that, an SSD seems to be considerably more expensive for the same size (including 128GB) than SD or Compact Flash, restrict airflow more, and possibly use more power, without any obvious benefit to installing new files or whatever. Of course some people do have 2TB drives or whatever in their original Xboxes, but safe to say most will be running spinning drives due to the cost of SSDs.

The original Xbox's specifications are humble enough that most speed improvements are wasted. The 80 pin IDE cables don't allow it to start running 133MB/s; it's running ATA66 or slower all the time. The only improvement with the new 80 wire cables seems to be improvements in crosstalk. Of course, pretty much any storage devices today have a high enough specification to more than saturate the Xbox drive - there's no need to spend a lot of money for performance. Just make sure you've bought more space than you'll use for over-provisioning and you're more than set.

[SGGG2]

I don't know enough about memory cards to say for certain. CF cards are used as boot drives in PCs, so I imagine they're fine.

Previous discussion here: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37271