Fighting Game Hype Thread

[Zaarock]

Nice article quash. the world needs a modern VOOT-like game :x seems like the japanese community for it is getting very small by now.

GGAC+R port by M2, hell yes

[KAI]

Not that M2.

the world needs a modern VOOT-like game

You mean like Gundam VS?

[quash]

I wouldn't say Gundam is that much like Virtual On, truthfully. The obvious differences such as the control scheme and element of teamwork aside, Virtual On is more about staying away from the opponent and creating your opening to approach them, whereas Gundam is more about finding the optimal range(s) to play footsies and staying there. For the melee suits, you're just trying to get in by any means necessary.

[Zaarock]

Oops, my bad..

Gundam VS is the closest thing but it's not designed for 1v1. I'm not experienced with it but Id imagine that single characters have less depth to them since there's a bunch of them? (the movesets in VOOT are massive and a large portion comes to play at high levels. also tons of character specific movement techniques). That's the case with Virtual-On Force which is 2v2. A lot of people dislike VO4 compared to OT but I never got the point of comparing a 1v1 fighter to a 2v2 game with teamwork, of course it plays very different.

[quash]

The older Gundam games (pre-NEXT) were pretty simple, yeah. NEXT added the ability to cancel boost dashes which really opened up a lot, and from there the series has basically improved with each iteration, with things like bursts and dash-cancelable melee added in EXVS.

On an individual basis, no one suit in Gundam is as complex as a Virtuoid. Another thing to consider though is that a lot of suits are designed to be hard counters to other types of suits in Gundam, so the fact that it's 2v2 plays a serious role in balancing the game. Melee suits have historically struggled against suits with auto-guard, but having a teammate with a beam rifle who can deplete auto-guard changes that dynamic entirely.

[KAI]

NEXT added the ability to cancel boost dashes which really opened up a lot

And this is the main reason why I still prefer the old GVSs (those directed by Tomita).
Cancelling every move with dashes feels like playing GG with unlimited RCs. I always loved the high risk in this kind of games. Making everything safe ruined the series for me.

[quash]

I'll still take that over losing because I took initiative and ended up having to eat a move with superarmor because of it. Besides, there is still quite a bit that can be punished in the later games, especially since there's not as much boost to go around.

[Squire Grooktook]

I'd actually be interested in playing a fighter-esque thing where everything can be cancelled into an escape and victory comes down to having the reflexes to pull it off + strategic positioning/planning.

[Zaarock]

Some matchups in VOOT end up like that, both players do safe attacks at neutral unless the opponent leaves himself open for counters (all about movement. vaguely like a versus shooter). Similar to what KAI said of newer gundam games some people prefer the first Virtual-On since it's easier to punish things and there's less cancels etc.

[KAI]

Street Fighter 5 - M. Bison Reveal Trailer
Launchers, launchers everywhere.

Pre-order for beta access

So this is gonna be a console fighter? get ready for the brokenness.

[Frenetic]

I just hope they bring Dan back.

[iconoclast]

It's good that they're doing a beta, at least, so they can iron out most of the major flaws before the game launches. Then they can probably do an arcade release once it's completely solid.

Capcom really doesn't need this to be another Street Fighter x Tekken. By the time they made that game good, nobody was playing it any more.

[Zerp]

Well DLCs and gems kinda pissed a lot of people off too...

[Blinge]

if GGAC+R hits steam I'm adding y'all who get it.

prepare for a whuppin'

(..I've never owned GG)

[KAI]

FUCK YEAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!

[mamboFoxtrot]

So, would there be any advantage to having +R on Steam rather than PS3?

[KAI]

Better netcode.


Fingers crossed for Hokuto no Ken.

[z0mbie90]

So, would there be any advantage to having +R on Steam rather than PS3?

I dont have a PS3

[Squire Grooktook]

So, would there be any advantage to having +R on Steam rather than PS3?

Can't speak for the Steam version yet, but netplay on PS3 is hooorriiiibllleeeeee.

[iconoclast]

Shin Daigo putting on a clinic: http://sendvid.com/6bqi2kpm

I wonder if the huge amount of money that's up for grabs in the Capcom Pro Tour motivated him to give it everything he's got, because he's been playing better than ever lately.

Also, pretty much every match he had against Momochi at Stunfest was awesome. That's SF4 at its best.

[quash]

So far the only negative reception towards my article has come from VFDC, which is a little sad, if not expected.

I do feel bad for a lot of those guys, though. A lot of them are just hilariously stuck in the past and haven't touched a non-VF fighting game since 2000, which is causing them to cling on to horribly dated notions about the genre as a whole. Then there's some who just don't see the issue with VF being the way it is (an incomplete game) and think everything's fine and dandy, when anyone who's been keeping up with the genre knows that there is so much more than can be done with it.

VF is still a great game and all, but it has some serious shortcomings compared to its contemporaries, which is why it's being phased out.

[Volteccer_Jack]

give the defending player a way out of almost every bad situation

You begin from the unstated assumption that this is a good thing. It isn't.

Parry was a perfect defensive tool years before Guilty Gear, and it was extremely elegant, unlike Guilty Gear's hap-hazard pile of a dozen sloppy mechanics. And it was widely hated BECAUSE it was "a way out of almost every bad situation"

It was also the first 2D fighter to make movement a truly viable defensive option, even in situations when you're cornered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0
That you would spend so many words in both your post and that essay being condescending and presumptuous and generally acting like you have more experience with fighting games than everyone else in the FGC right after making this joke of a declaration is a little sad, if not expected.

Not even gonna get into the rest of that text wall. There's a very good reason people don't bother arguing with Guilty Gear fans.

[quash]

You begin from the unstated assumption that this is a good thing. It isn't.

So you enjoy getting Ochio thrown to death? Or losing because you got caught in an inescapable guard crush?

Parry was a perfect defensive tool years before Guilty Gear

lol

and it was extremely elegant

LOL

And it was widely hated BECAUSE it was "a way out of almost every bad situation"

I don't care much for 3S myself but even I know that is wrong.

And then you just join the meme regurgitating hivemind without any sort of argument whatsoever. You are a perfect example of why the US fighting game scene is so horrible, and why it will never improve.

[BulletMagnet]

Watch the tone here.

In any case, if you want to get hot and bothered about something, this probably ought to do it for most of you.

[quash]

DFC sucks, but at least it fills the niche of being the simplest airdash game on the market. People will play it, realize it's not that great, then move on to something bigger and better like UNIEL or Xrd.

[Squire Grooktook]

then move on to something bigger and better like UNIEL or Skullgirls.

Ah, much better.

Anyway: I think the thing that a lot of people tend to miss in this super serious theory fighting is that it's subjective and depends on personal taste. Some people like parry, some people don't. Some people like games where momentum is heavy and a round can be ended in seconds off of one really bad decision. Others don't. The variety of personal tastes is why we have so many varied games. It's like comparing Gradius to R-Type to Darius.

The closest I can think of to an almost universally reviled mechanic is X-Factor in MVC3. Most people seem to agree that, even if it can be worked around, it wasn't a very good idea to give a few seconds of unreactable mix ups, unbeatable frame data, and instant kill combos to characters. At best there are people who think it doesn't hurt the game or can be ignored, but I've encountered very few who actually like it.

[BulletMagnet]

The closest I can think of to an almost universally reviled mechanic is X-Factor in MVC3.

Maybe the gems in Street Fighter X Tekken?

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^It's been a while since I participated in discussion of that game, but weren't the gems semi optional? IE you could turn them off (although iirc some tournaments chose to play with gems?). X-Factor is completely mandatory and can't be disabled in any options menu.

And oh yeah, tripping in Brawl lol.

[BulletMagnet]

I recall that up until SFxT's release Capcom resisted requests to make gems optional by saying they were too integral to the game or some such thing...maybe they relented later on, I'm not sure.

[Volteccer_Jack]

So you enjoy getting Ochio thrown to death? Or losing because you got caught in an inescapable guard crush?

Cherry-picking extreme examples without context isn't an argument. But even in those examples, the losing player has already made multiple severe errors in order to wind up in such a dire situation. Contrast with "make a single minor error and lose 40%+ health," which is a very common situation in airdash fighters like Guilty Gear.

Universal defensive ability reduces depth and turns the round into just a long series of guessing games; to paraphrase Viscant's rant of legend, what should be an involved war for invisible resources is dumbed-down to the point of "I thought you were going to do this, but you did that instead, and I was surprised."

I don't care much for 3S myself but even I know that is wrong.

It's pretty clear you didn't read the old SRK threads on the subject. Parry's problem is that it imposes a hard limit on how bad a situation can be (not very bad). Characters who have bad situations as a design focus, like Claw or Guile, are neutered to the point of near-uselessness by parry. The common fireball complaint is merely the most obvious example, a microcosm of the problem (it's also greatly exaggerated; fireballs aren't useless in 3S, and though they are weak, crappy numbers are as much to blame as parry is).

The closest I can think of to an almost universally reviled mechanic is X-Factor in MVC3.

Level 1 and 2 are (mostly) fine. Level 3 is just idiotically over the top and it's absurd that Capcom didn't nerf the hell out of it when they made Ultimate.