component looks worse than s-video??

[mikehaggar]

Hi everybody,

Here is the situation. I have an nesrgb hooked up to my CRT via S-video, however, I just decided to go component (since my crt supports it as well). After buying the necessary gear and cables, I just hooked it up now, and....something seems wrong. The picture doesn't look right on component. It basically looks way more yellow, or washed out, or something. Can you guys help?

Here are comparisons:

1. NESrgb -> s-video -> CRT



2. NESrgb-> rgb (via din8) -> scart connector -> csy2100 clone -> component cables -> CRT

[darcagn]

csy2100 clone

This is probably the problem. These are known to have color issues. Good news is that the colors are adjustable. Open it up and you will notice several potentiometers on the board. Try using a screwdriver to turn them, adjusting them until the colors look correct.

[RGB32E]

As an alternative to adjusting the CSY2100 clone, you could install and use a NESRGB Component add-on kit instead. The component output signals it generates will give you a better picture than the CSY2100 clone, and there are no adjustments to make.

[mikehaggar]

is it actually a better picture?

I thought that it would basically be equivalent to an rgb-> component transcoder

[RGB32E]

Yes, based off of my capture comparison, the N-C gives better component output than even a Kramer Electronics FC-14 (commercial grade RGB to component converter). I had one of the original CSY2100 units and there's no comparison between it and the FC-14. However, the FC-14 is a bit more expensive than the CSY2100 or clones. IIRC, I paid about $200 for the Kramer brand new!

[Josh128]

Do you have a SCART audio breakout box between the NESRGB SCART and the CSY Clone? I have had the same issue with off colors-- not due to the converter but due to iffy SCART connections using the breakout box. Those can be very wonky-- try wiggling the connectors up and down and you can watch the colors change on the fly-- many times to a yellowish green.

I suppose it could also happen without the breakout box, but Ive not had that issue. Try moving the scart connector into the converter to make sure its fully seated, watch the screen as you do it to make sure the colors dont change.

As for the quality of the CSY clones, Ive had absolutely no issues with them, they are incredible for the money. Not saying one might not come with a misadjusted pot, but mine were spot on out of the box. Heres a few images produced by mine--

[Einzelherz]

If you've only just plugged the CSY into the chain, then most likely it's that the potentiometers need adjustment. It's very easy to do, especially with s-video available. Just open it up and twist the little knobs until the screen matches the s-video as closely as possible.

[Pasky]

The CSY clones have too much yellow/green to them. Open it up and adjust the pot to get it close as possible to natural. It'll never look exact unfortunately.

[antron]

The pot inside is very sensitive. The difference between good and bad results is the tiniest of a turn.

[BazookaBen]

It should be pretty easy to calibrate by just putting up a color bar test pattern, right? Maybe have a decent computer monitor with same pattern to compare.

[Einzelherz]

It should be pretty easy to calibrate by just putting up a color bar test pattern, right? Maybe have a decent computer monitor with same pattern to compare.

That's one way to do it, but if your TV isn't properly calibrated itself, you might not get it perfect. I calibrated mine with a wii over component, then used a DC through the CSY and got it as close as possible.

Having both s-video and RGB out can make it easy enough though.

[BazookaBen]

That's one way to do it, but if your TV isn't properly calibrated itself, you might not get it perfect. I calibrated mine with a wii over component, then used a DC through the CSY and got it as close as possible.

Having both s-video and RGB out can make it easy enough though.

Yeah, that's a better plan. Take any other native component source and try to get it to match on the same TV.

[darcagn]

Yeah, for mine that I was using before I had a Framemeister, I loaded up Super Mario World on the Wii VC via component input 1, then Super Mario World on the SNES via RGB->Component converter on component input 2, and adjusted as necessary. The Super Mario World logo on the title screen provided a good reference.

[mikehaggar]

This is frustrating. I tweaked the pots on a few NES games, and thought it was right, but then I put another game in and the colors looked WAY off. Is there a reliable way to do the tweaking? Is there some optimal setting? I don't really understand why I have to do this....I mean, do all transcoders have this? I was hoping it would just be a plug/play type thing....

Does anybody know exactly what each pot does? There are 6 of them btw...

It all seems so subjective. Would I have better results if I just put tim's nesrgb component add on in my nes, and modded all my other systems for component? I did it this way because I thought it would save money, but don't want the quality to go down because of it...

[Josh128]

Case of bad luck, no doubt. I also have an Audio Authority 9A60 VGA to Component transcoder, which is generally regarded as a higher quality unit than the CSY-2100 clones, but the 240p comparisons Ive done with Street Fighter 3:DI on my DC yielded identical results between the two boxes, in both color and clarity. Saving money or not, you shouldnt be sacrificing anything by using a clone.

You might simply have a defective box.

[darcagn]

It might be difficult to calibrate that thing while using an NES as a reference due to the NES's odd color palette situation. I would suggest using something else as a reference to calibrate it if you can.

And I definitely do think you made the right decision in doing everything in RGB and then converting to component, vs. doing everything in component first.

Yes, there are 6 pots, but I think only 2 (?) affected the color. I'm not entirely sure of that since it's been years since I've used mine. I couldn't figure out what the other ones did so I left them alone.

[mickcris]

do you have a Turbo Everdrive yet? could use the color bars on the 240p test suite to calibrate it possibly.

[Einzelherz]

This is frustrating. I tweaked the pots on a few NES games, and thought it was right, but then I put another game in and the colors looked WAY off. Is there a reliable way to do the tweaking? Is there some optimal setting? I don't really understand why I have to do this....I mean, do all transcoders have this? I was hoping it would just be a plug/play type thing....

Does anybody know exactly what each pot does? There are 6 of them btw...

It all seems so subjective. Would I have better results if I just put tim's nesrgb component add on in my nes, and modded all my other systems for component? I did it this way because I thought it would save money, but don't want the quality to go down because of it...

Using an RGB-Component converter is the most cost effective method as opposed to trying to convert each system to component (and dealing with this type of issue on every system, possibly). When I first got mine I watched this video and read the link attached to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYN906grLsM

The NES isn't the best system to calibrate it against, because as it was said, it has a severely limited palette. I only suggested it because you have a reference video feed on the same system (S-Video).

There are 6 pots inside. At least two of them do nothing from my memory. A third only does anything when fully turned, and in case, it just scrambles the screen a bit. Two adjust color hue balance and the last messes with the brightness. From that video I linked, there's a still frame that has each one labeled (couldn't find the original pic) and if you pause it there you'll be able to figure out which is which. Write that down and then using a few colorful NES games you can try again, but only messing with the color pots. Super mario 2 has red blue and green all on the same screen at the same time fairly often. Maybe try that one?

Also, which palette do you have the NESRGB set to?

[mikehaggar]

I own an everdrive for my genesis, and it is S-video modded, so I guess I'll try that one (along with the 240p test suite) since I have a frame of reference. Thanks for the suggestions...I didn't even know the 240p test suite existed.

I'm using the regular pallete for the nesrgb. I was using the s-video as a reference, but I still couldn't get things perfect. The limited color pallete for each NES game made it extra hard. I'm convinced that all the pots do something....I was seeing small changes with a lot of them, but big changes only with 2 or 3 of them. I'll try following that video and see what it says.

Also, will I honestly go through this same thing if I put component directly inside each console? Isn't Tim Worthington's component add on for the NES (and also for the SNES) a good solution for component that doesn't involve tweeking?

[BazookaBen]

Also, will I honestly go through this same thing if I put component directly inside each console? Isn't Tim Worthington's component add on for the NES (and also for the SNES) a good solution for component that doesn't involve tweeking?

That's $20 per console plus whatever you spend making a component cable for each plus the time you invest doing all that stuff. You also have the option of getting a real CSY 2100 or Audio Authority 9A60. Those have been vetted thoroughly on this forum.

But I'm guessing that your CSY clone is fine, and you just haven't found a good test screen to calibrate it. Definitely use the 240p test suite.

[RGB32E]

Also, will I honestly go through this same thing if I put component directly inside each console?

No, not anything quite the same as tweaking a number of pots.

Isn't Tim Worthington's component add on for the NES (and also for the SNES) a good solution for component that doesn't involve tweeking?

Correct. The N-C was specifically designed for the NESRGB, is a pretty easy install, and will give you the best component signal with no pot tweaking or second guessing.

Installing the N-C in the SNES is a little more complex, as the installation of the N-C differs between 1CHIP and non-1CHIP HW revisions. The 1CHIP systems are relatively easy (similar to NESRGB). The non-1CHIP systems require buffering the RGB signals with a CXA1645 or equivalent before feeding the N-C. The THS7314 is unsuitable without additional components according to Tim.

That's $20 per console plus whatever you spend making a component cable for each plus the time you invest doing all that stuff.

Building cables for each installation isn't required. The kit contains a 4 pole/TRSS 3.5mm jack you mount to the case when installing. Connect standard RCA cables to the included adapter and you're good to go! Even if you had a single CSY-2100 fed from a SCART switch, you'd still need to pay $20+ for each SCART cable, or build them yourself. Hence, the overall cost is similar between the two.

[mikehaggar]

Wow, ok, this is really bizarre.

So I loaded up 240p test suite on my genesis. Pulled up the color bars and tweaked till it looked as close as possible. So far so good. I loaded up lots of games and they all looked nice. Then I loaded up "goonies 2" on the NES, and I can't explain it....the colors were COMPLETELY off. Like, everything was horrible red and purple. Like, it was unplayably bad......does this make sense? It looked fine in s-video (which is being pulled from the nesrgb simultaneously).

How can this be?? Has anybody seen something like this before?

[Einzelherz]

Wow, ok, this is really bizarre.

So I loaded up 240p test suite on my genesis. Pulled up the color bars and tweaked till it looked as close as possible. So far so good. I loaded up lots of games and they all looked nice. Then I loaded up "goonies 2" on the NES, and I can't explain it....the colors were COMPLETELY off. Like, everything was horrible red and purple. Like, it was unplayably bad......does this make sense? It looked fine in s-video (which is being pulled from the nesrgb simultaneously).

How can this be?? Has anybody seen something like this before?

Is it *just* goonies 2? If not and the NES over RGB is consistently different from S-video you should probably go over your connections again.

[mikehaggar]

So far it's just goonies 2. The others I've tried seem to look at least pretty similar to their s-video counterparts...

[Einzelherz]

Anyone else have a Goonies 2 game?

[darcagn]

I have Goonies II. I've played it before on both my 51" plasma via XRGB-mini and directly on my BVM monitor with NESRGB v1.7 firmware. Never played it on the CSY clone though.

[FinalBaton]

Yes, based off of my capture comparison, the N-C gives better component output than even a Kramer Electronics FC-14 (commercial grade RGB to component converter). I had one of the original CSY2100 units and there's no comparison between it and the FC-14. However, the FC-14 is a bit more expensive than the CSY2100 or clones. IIRC, I paid about $200 for the Kramer brand new!

How do you input the console's signal into the FC-14? SCART to VGA adapter? And if so, wich model?