Why am I having trouble finding PS1/PS2 Shmups?

[Blade]

The only titles I've seen are Sylpheed, R-Type Final, a few Gradius games, mostly Horizontal Smups....

I have a thing for Vertical Shmups, and I've had my eye on Psyvariar 2 and Dondonpachi for some time now, but the thing is, it's an import. This really bothers me, as I'm slowly being tempted into buying a Saturn or Dreamcast just to get anything decent.

Now, I won't disagree that Gradius V is a good shmup, it is, but where are the other titles in the Review list? Einhander you just don't see on the shelf at Gamestop anymore.

I have a PS2 so PS1 games are an option for me, but I really hope I don't have to resort to importing or scrounging in used record stores.

Most shmups I've played are on PC, but even I get sick of using a Keyboard sometimes.

Someone help!

[BulletMagnet]

Einhander you just don't see on the shelf at Gamestop anymore.

There are usually several copies available on eBay, if you want to look there.

As with any other system, though, most the best stuff you need to import.

[BrianC]

Einhander you just don't see on the shelf at Gamestop anymore.

There are usually several copies available on eBay, if you want to look there.

As with any other system, though, most the best stuff you need to import.

but there is plenty of stuff on PSX that isn't import only like Xevious 3D +G, R-Types, R-Type Delta, Raiden Project, Strikes 1945 II, Gunbird, Raycrisis, Raystorm, Gekioh, and a couple others. However, Raiden Project, Gunbird, and Strikers 1945 II have superior Japanese versions, though only slightly so IMO, though Gunbird has the worst localization of the three. I actually recommend getting Mobile Light Force since it's extremely cheap, but if you want the definative version of the original Gunbird, the Saturn and import PS2 versions are the better choices. Oddly enough, the Japanese Raiden Project actually sells for cheaper than the US one.

[Ganelon]

Einhander is now just a $20 on Ebay (heh, down from its $40 heights). There's always R-Types and Delta, Sanvein and Space Shot, Raiden Project and G.Darius. If you don't have a way to play imports and you want verts, there's absolutely nothing for you except:

Raiden Project (which has weird horizontal controls in TATE mode unlike the JP version)
Mobile Light Force (which is in every way inferior to the JP Gunbird)
Strikers 1945 (II) (which has no TATE unlike the JP version)
Gekioh
Mobile Light Force 2 (which is in every way inferior to the JP Shikigami no Shiro)
Castle Shikigami 2
Raystorm
Raycrisis
Silpheed: TLP
Xevious 3D/G+
Philosoma

I'm not sure why you wouldn't spring for a DC though since they cost less than $20.

[Neon]

I really hope I don't have to resort to importing

Why not? It's $30 for swap magics and you get access to the best shooters on the ps2.

[professor ganson]

[quote="BrianC"]
but there is plenty of stuff on PSX that isn't import only like Xevious 3D +G, R-Types, R-Type Delta, Raiden Project, Strikes 1945 II, Gunbird, Raycrisis, Raystorm, Gekioh, and a couple others.

So Xevious 3D +G is a 2D shooter? Is it any good?

[professor ganson]

but there is plenty of stuff on PSX that isn't import only like Xevious 3D +G

Sorry: I'm still getting a grip on how to quote. (Pretty lame, I realize.)

Let me try again: So Xevious 3D is a 2D shooter? Is it any good?

[BrianC]

Xevious 3D + G is a 2D shooter and it comes with Xevious, Super Xevious, and Xevious Arrangement, all 2D shooters. I love Xevious 3D + G, but it wasn't well received by critics. However, if you love the original Xevious, I highly recommend it. Xevious 3D + G plays like Xevious with polygonal graphics, multiple stages, and some cool power ups.

[Ganelon]

Just don't expect cool bosses, manic shmupping, great graphics, or anything.

[Thunder Force]

Let me try again: So Xevious 3D is a 2D shooter? Is it any good?

The Xevious 3D+G collection is a great buy, conditionally. Obviously you have to be a Xevious fan first.

The high-resolution Xevious Arrangement with subtle gameplay improvements is particularly kickass The 3D polygon Xevious is a pretty radical change but really isn't half bad either. I also appreciated the alternate BGM remix options.

[stoneroses]

Hey man, I am a HUGE PSone / PS2 domestic-only shooter fan and there are some highly playable titles as mentioned.

As far as Gamestop, I never really cared for them until I started getting back into the PSone again. The 10 or so shops here in Pittsburgh always seem to have a few shooters around from time to time. But it can be hard when you really want a certain game and nobody has it. The website they have has a kick-ass search by zip code function (much better than ebgames.com IMO) but just make sure you call them first before starting a 45 minute drive for a $1.99 copy of In the Hunt or something.

I feel that this is the best time to find these games as the new consoles will begin to arrive soon. One Gamestop by me already did away with PSone games.

[system11]

It's pretty simple - if you don't import (and ebay counts here), you'll miss out. To take a recent example with a game I've been having fun with lately, Steel Dragon Evolution - part of the Steel Dragon double pack. This is a rename of the Shienryu double pack, and was released in the states and Europe by Midas. All good, JP game getting a world release, however...

1) PAL version suffers slower gameplay and borders
2) They changed the weapons (!)
3) They drastically reduced the difficulty level (it was not overly hard to begin with). Entire bullet patterns are missing. I suspect they changed normal -> hard and easy -> normal, but it may be more severe than that.

We all import here....

[CMoon]

You're not going to find the best shmups on the PSX/PS2 without ebay or special orders. Six or seven years ago I cuold still find some of these domestic shmups, but not now.

Strikers & Raiden Project have only 'slightly' better Japanese versions? You must not care about tate!

Do not be afraid to import. Importing is the best thing that can happen to a PSX or PS2.

I've never quite understood these two things that people seem afraid of: importing and putting their TV on its side. These are two of the most important things for shmupping!

[system11]

I've never quite understood these two things that people seem afraid of: importing and putting their TV on its side. These are two of the most important things for shmupping!

I don't think people are afraid of importing as such - more put off by the cost. It's not cheap! For Europeans this can be especially bad when we get hit with taxes + fees. My $120 play-asia order arrived this week, I had to pay $50 in tax and fees.

As for TVs on their side - fools errand, it's not safe for all TVs - if you really don't like yoko scaled modes (I'm fine with them), get a second hand TV or an old RGB monitor for that express purpose. I can't remember who had it, but I saw pictures of someones setup where they had a very box shaped TV, looked almost like an airport information screen - ideal.

[Ghegs]

I've never quite understood these two things that people seem afraid of: importing and putting their TV on its side. These are two of the most important things for shmupping!

Well, we're all used to that stuff now, but I do remember I was pretty nervous when I first flipped my TV to its side. I was still living with my parents so it was technically their TV and I did NOT want to explain what the hell I was doing putting the TV like that in case it broke...

And importing is scary because it's unknown. Information and education is required here. And yes, the price is a big factor too.

[Ganelon]

Yeah, I don't think price is that big a part of it. Price may SEEM to be the biggest factor but when you consider that getting a DC-X to play DC imports only costs $20, a Goldfinger to play PS imports only costs $20, a 4-in-1 to play Saturn imports only $30, and Swap Magic + fliptop to play PS2 imports only $36, you have to realize it's not THAT much money. Becoming import-ready costs less than a retail priced game. You could get a Goldfinger and JP Raiden Project for less than the price of a US Raiden Project.

Yeah, newly released import titles cost a bundle but we're not exactly talking about the latest games here. Of course, I'm talking about somebody who can buy games/receives many games, not for a little kid who might only get 2-3 presents a year, in which case yes, it'll take a lot of dedication to get into shmps.

Rotating TVs just requires some basic understanding that 99% of TVs out there won't be harmed, to turn it around w/o damaging it, and making sure the TV is left off for a bit between rotations so that there aren't jittery colors. I really think education would help people out although it really might not be worth the hassle for some people.

[sffan]

Most shmups I've played are on PC, but even I get sick of using a Keyboard sometimes.

Why not get a gamepad or joystick for your PC?

[Blade]

3 Things:

Can someone explain to me exactly what my Import Setup options are and what's most reliable/expensive? For example, how reliable is swap magic, and is it incredibly annoying (as in, being able to Make game saves on a Memory card for any progress or not) and can someone share their experience with modchips as an option, whether or not it's difficult to set up. I have no soldering (sp?) experience.

Secondly, what do you people mean by "inferior" or "superior" shmups from the Japanese to American conversion? What's the difference? No story? Gameplay got crapified?

You mention that the Dreamcast is $20, is the Japanese Dreamcast roughly the same value, would I be better off just getting that? Or is importing even an issue in the Dreamcast (I've heard you can put arcade and several other emulators on the DC).

[BrianC]

For the most part with the US versions of games, the gameplay is still intact, but the Tate mode (vertical orientation) has been removed. In the case of Raiden Project, the tate mode is still there, but the option to reverse the controls has been removed. How much you want to import games these that have US versions really depends on how much you care about tate. However, the JapanesePSX Gunbird has no tate and just wobble mode like the US PSX version of Gunbird (Mobile Light Force). The gameplay is intact in the Mobile Light Force and it's super cheap, so I recommend picking the game up anyway, despite the removal of text, character name changes, and the awful title screen.

The DC is much easier to import for than the PS2. I heard great things about the DC-X, though the only import I have is Shenmue II. It works great with the DC-X, though. Just pop in the disc, switch the disc with the game, and you're good to go. However, the problem with the DC is that newer US models can't play imports. Most of the DCs are earlier models, so they should be too hard to find, though.

[system11]

Rotating TVs just requires some basic understanding that 99% of TVs out there won't be harmed, to turn it around w/o damaging it, and making sure the TV is left off for a bit between rotations so that there aren't jittery colors. I really think education would help people out although it really might not be worth the hassle for some people.

Have you picked 100 random televisions and flipped them? Did 99 work fine?

It's things like this that make me really angry. Plucked out of the air statistics. Some TVs can't physically be placed on their side just for starters. I've even seen a damn arcade monitor that permanently discoloured after a rotation (I've owned more of the damn things than anyone else on the board). The odds are good, but it's chance. Otherwise, why would they see the need for this? :-

For the most part with the US versions of games, the gameplay is still intact, but the Tate mode (vertical orientation) has been removed.

Now why do you think they would do something like that? Because rotating nice big family TVs is _potentially_ dangerous and _potentially_ damaging and they don't want to get sued.

[BrianC]

For me, I rather rotate the controller for tate than rotate the TV. As long as the game has a good Yoko mode, I prefer not to use tate, though. However, for games like Donpachi I definatly plan to use tate mode, but not rotate the TV. And why do people keep treating Raiden Project US like it has no tate at all? Isn't the lack of being able to rotate the controls a non issue if you tate your TV or a monitor?

[system11]

I finally snapped and posted an explanation of tate TV risks on the Hardware forum.

[FRO]

You mention that the Dreamcast is $20, is the Japanese Dreamcast roughly the same value, would I be better off just getting that? Or is importing even an issue in the Dreamcast (I've heard you can put arcade and several other emulators on the DC).

Most console emulators for DC are still in the formative stages - even GameBoy emulators aren't running at full speed w/ sound yet. I've tried making bootable MAME discs for my DC by using Self-Boot Inducing images and have had some success, though most arcade games (unless they are really old) won't load or run at all (lack of system memory, probably), while others run really slow (Thunder Cross comes to mind). I'd stick to domestics & imports until an emulator truly optimized for the DC comes along.

[Zach Keene]

And why do people keep treating Raiden Project US like it has no tate at all? Isn't the lack of being able to rotate the controls a non issue if you tate your TV or a monitor?

The problem with the US version of RP is that the tate controls are stuck as if you wanted to play the game as a sidescroller:



So when you tate your TV, there's no way to rotate the controls to compensate (short of either physically holding the controller sideways or rewiring it...)



(OK, I just noticed I've got L and R reversed on that last pic, but I'm too lazy to fix it and I think it still illustrates the point.)

[Ganelon]

Have you picked 100 random televisions and flipped them? Did 99 work fine?

It's things like this that make me really angry. Plucked out of the air statistics.

No, I haven't. That's why I referred to the generic 99% rather than 97.53% or an exact 99.0% or whatever, because I don't know the figures. I bet it makes you angry when people use the word "couple" to refer to more than 2 items, huh? And that you hate it when people say they have "all the time in the world" since that's not true, huh? 99% can be used as an expression now for a predominant majority rather than an exact percentage and only the most pedantic individuals would still cling to its literal meaning and get upset over it.

I respect your caution but how many TVs (not oversized and not fragile) have gone bad on you from rotating them around? Regardless,

Blade:

Swap Magic with a fliptop (I suggest not using slide cards since they've been ongoing debates over them messing up the emergency eject switch) are pretty simple. You simply take the cover off your PS2 and replace it with the fliptop. When you want to play an import, you stick in Swap Magic CD, wait for it to load, and replace it with your game disc via the top. I've never had trouble with mine (given I don't play backups) but some people have complained about them not working too well; I'm not sure whether that's due to their badly burned copies or Swap Magic itself. BTW, import games save on US memory cards no problem. However, Swap Magic only works with PS2 and not PS games; supposedly, a PS1 boot disc will work but I've stuck to playing PS1 games with my PS and Goldfinger.

Soldering isn't hard at all but if you have no experience, you could easily accidentally over-solder 2 components together or miss soldering something together, which could really mess up your system so don't go along that path. Modchips and installation will be a lot more expensive (but also less hassle later) than the $36 for Swap Magic + fliptop.

You mention that the Dreamcast is $20, is the Japanese Dreamcast roughly the same value, would I be better off just getting that? Or is importing even an issue in the Dreamcast (I've heard you can put arcade and several other emulators on the DC).

Utopia is free if you burn it so it's not really an issue except for the hassle of swapping. I use DC-X and I've had no problems at all. Yes, there's plenty of emulators around for the DC. You could get a JP DC if you want; just keep in mind that you won't be able to play US games w/o a boot disk.

[And why do people keep treating Raiden Project US like it has no tate at all? Isn't the lack of being able to rotate the controls a non issue if you tate your TV or a monitor?]

Eh, I'm not understanding you. To play US Raiden Project correctly in TATE mode, you have to rotate your controller 90 degrees as well (which is pretty awkward).

[BrianC]

And why do people keep treating Raiden Project US like it has no tate at all? Isn't the lack of being able to rotate the controls a non issue if you tate your TV or a monitor?

The problem with the US version of RP is that the tate controls are stuck as if you wanted to play the game as a sidescroller:



So when you tate your TV, there's no way to rotate the controls to compensate (short of either physically holding the controller sideways or rewiring it...)



(OK, I just noticed I've got L and R reversed on that last pic, but I'm too lazy to fix it and I think it still illustrates the point.)

Ahh, I understand. So the US Raiden Project does rotate the controls, but leaves out the option to use the original controls in tate mode. From the posts I read before, I got the mistaken impression that it only had non rotated controls in the vertical mode. Honestly, that doesn't sound too bad for me since I was probably going to play that way anyway, but there is that fact that the Japanese version is cheaper and since I have a disc to play Japanese games anyway, there is no reason for me not to go for the Japanese version.

I tried a DC MSX emulator and I wasn't happy with the results. Some games that run on most PC emulations like Salamander and Gofer no Yabou Episode II wouldn't run properly on it and the speed is pretty erratic. Some games play fine in 60 Hz mode, but most of them run better on PC emulators.

[system11]

No, I haven't. That's why I referred to the generic 99% rather than 97.53% or an exact 99.0% or whatever, because I don't know the figures. I bet it makes you angry when people use the word "couple" to refer to more than 2 items, huh? And that you hate it when people say they have "all the time in the world" since that's not true, huh? 99% can be used as an expression now for a predominant majority rather than an exact percentage and only the most pedantic individuals would still cling to its literal meaning and get upset over it.

And what if your made up number is in reality 75%? What if it's 99% with a 50% increased chance of premature failure? It was the presumption that in the majority of cases there will be no ill effects. See my hardware forum post for the reasons.

Does that 'huh?' come with a creepy little George Bush halfsmile?

[BrianC]

Actually, from what I heard, the import for Strikers 1945 II is definatly the better bet than the US version. There is no full screen yoko mode, but tate is full screen. I'm still not crazy about turning my monitor over, but turning the controller over is a different story. Then again, I'm used to the wobble Yoko mode in Gunbird PSX, though it does affect pacing in some parts (mainly speed up parts, but it doesn't make the game unplayable by any means and those parts are still a blast IMO), despite still being playable and fun in that mode IMO.

[Ganelon]

Probably but my argument had an anti-"you forgot Poland" theme.

But if it was 75%, about 1/4 of the numerous people here who TATE would've complained which hasn't been the case. Yeah, there might be dormant issues but how many people have experienced that? I'm just going by personal experience and info gathered from the experience of others here. If lots of people had their TVs fry after TATEing for awhile, I'd adovate more caution as well. How many of your own TVs have gone out of whack anyway and do you know the reasons they didn't work?

[system11]

Probably but my argument had an anti-"you forgot Poland" theme.

But if it was 75%, about 1/4 of the numerous people here who TATE would've complained which hasn't been the case. Yeah, there might be dormant issues but how many people have experienced that? I'm just going by personal experience and info gathered from the experience of others here. If lots of people had their TVs fry after TATEing for awhile, I'd adovate more caution as well. How many of your own TVs have gone out of whack anyway and do you know the reasons they didn't work?

Did you even read my posting there? I've had arcade monitors fail early due to component weight on solder points. I had a JAMMA cab that permanently discolour one day after a rotation, despite months of use that caused no issue. I'm not trying with my TV. Firstly, a quick check pushing the sides indicated it would certainly crack/crunch (it's far too heavy), and secondly I can't afford to replace it. One thing I didn't mention, is some screens are susceptible to the earths magnetic fields - they don't stabilise at all on their side, I even had an Outrun once that was near no obvious magnetic fields, but discoloured if it wasn't facing North (or South, I'm not sure which way my garage points).