Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

[bobrocks95]

where does the w900a stand in relation to some of the newer models? not looking to buy, just curious. is it still the lowest input lag for a 55"?

At least in America, there's a 55" W700B that's around 10ms IIRC; I believe that's the lowest lag 55" there is.

[Xyga]

Yup, still got it. Would've replied sooner but i haven't been checking shmups as often recently.

PNL: T500HVF04-0

Thanks, I actually ended up getting the 50W800B and can confirm that it has the exact same panel that you got on your 790B.

Thinking about it probably was the W850 that had an S-PVA, not the 790, cannot find that review to confirm anymore...

@blackoak the W900A was top-of-the-line in 2013, with S-IPS panel, Triluminos (a thing like 'quantum dot') and FALD (full array local dimming), plus a lot of MotionFlow options and low lag of course (about just 1 frame IIRC).

Thought it had been discontinued now...(?)
EDIT: yes.

[Fudoh]

Pretty sure that 2013's W9 was VA. W8 was IPS. In 2014 they moved it up, so the 2014 W9 was IPS instead.

[Xyga]

You would tell me twenty times I'd still be confused about all those changes.
The 2014 indeed.

[Konsolkongen]

Pretty sure that 2013's W9 was VA. W8 was IPS. In 2014 they moved it up, so the 2014 W9 was IPS instead.

2013's W9 is VA for sure

[wyatt8740]

For me personally, until I can play Duck Hunt on a LCD, I'm sticking with the free PVM-20L5 I just got from my local TV station.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I just bought Sony KDL-32R410B as in stores I went to it looked most compelling to me in its price range. Is it considered good for gaming? I see no "game mode" in the menus; is there something I should disable to improve response times?
Since my PS3 has to arrive yet and I have no other HDMI-outputting games machine, I can't tell how it lags in games (I could feed RGB via SCART from my SDTV consoles, but I don't want to see it). Will the picture always be 100 Hz, regardless of the source signal? That would be ridiculous.
I've only watched some SDTV on it fed via HDMI and it looked fine, but it was 50 Hz PAL signal.

P.S. Okay, so I found the "Game" setting in Scene Select.

[RGB32E]

I briefly checked out the new 2015 KDL-65W850C and am curious to get an input lag reading from it! The W850C is Sony's highest end 1080p series for 2015 and unfortunately doesn't have any sort of "Triluminos" tech advertised. I noticed that the panel is BGR pixel alignment an has an interesting pixel domain structure - dark pixels shrink and expand from one corner of the pixel. IIRC the HX9 series was sort of like this and gives a CRT like of sorts - brighter the pixel, the larger the pixel area. I'm guessing it doesn't have an IPS panel, but could be a MVA, or even an ASV panel!

[Shining]

I'm really looking forward to in-depth reviews of the W85C series! The 50" version might be the one to replace my current display if the input lag is as low as the 705/805 sets.

[BONKERS]

I briefly checked out the new 2015 KDL-65W850C and am curious to get an input lag reading from it! The W850C is Sony's highest end 1080p series for 2015 and unfortunately doesn't have any sort of "Triluminos" tech advertised. I noticed that the panel is BGR pixel alignment an has an interesting pixel domain structure - dark pixels shrink and expand from one corner of the pixel. IIRC the HX9 series was sort of like this and gives a CRT like of sorts - brighter the pixel, the larger the pixel area. I'm guessing it doesn't have an IPS panel, but could be a MVA, or even an ASV panel!

I wish they'd release this set in a smaller size.

But, the pixel structure is the same as one of my TVs, a 720p 32" (2013 UN324000F IIRC) Samsung that has a similar effect to the pixel (BGR, shrinking). I really really dislike the effect for 3D rendering TBH.

I've been contemplating getting the 800B for a while now, but at 50" it will have a slightly lower PPI than the above mentioned 768p 32" set.

There is also the matter of space.

Sucks that the only way to get a smaller one is to get a slightly inferior model.

40-45" would be better.

[RGB32E]

I'm really looking forward to in-depth reviews of the W85C series! The 50" version might be the one to replace my current display if the input lag is as low as the 705/805 sets.

I'd imagine there will be reviews up within the next month? Hopefully CNet will get a sample to review.

I wish they'd release this set in a smaller size.

Yeah, I really wish the W900A hadn't been limited to a 55" size in NA or else I would have picked one up. Japan (and rest of asia it appears) had them in 40" and 46" sizes as well:
http://www.sony.jp/bravia/products/KDL-40W900A/

I've been contemplating getting the 800B for a while now, but at 50" it will have a slightly lower PPI than the above mentioned 768p 32" set.

I've used the KDL-55W800B with current consoles and was pleased with it's overall performance including input lag and black level. The KDL-50W800B is getting a 2015 W800C replacement and I'm curious to see what has changed (hopefully same or better).

[BONKERS]

I am kind of doubting CNET will do it, they really haven't reviewed ANY TVs this year.


RTINGS on the other hand is on top of it and showing everybody else up

[Shining]

I'm really looking forward to in-depth reviews of the W85C series! The 50" version might be the one to replace my current display if the input lag is as low as the 705/805 sets.

I'd imagine there will be reviews up within the next month? Hopefully CNet will get a sample to review.

Hopefully! I'm getting more and more interested in the 65" version though as i think 50" will be too small. As of today i have an 55" and i sit about 10 feet away (about 3m) and i feel this is perfect for me. 65" might be too big. If i go for one, it will be solely used for gaming (modern and retro using a Framemeister).

[blackoak]

I too would be interested in the 65" or 75" one day, even, but don't the increased sizes inevitably mean worse input lag?

[RGB32E]

I too would be interested in the 65" or 75" one day, even, but don't the increased sizes inevitably mean worse input lag?

I had hoped Sony would release a 1080p 65" FALD set in 2013 but never did, nor will they ever at this point given that UHD/4k is the "thing" now. The highest end 65" 1080p models from Sony since 2013 have had 17/18ms display lag, so no, larger sizes (>55") do not mean worse input lag. The W850A had most of the same feature set as the W900A except for it being a 120Hz panel instead of 240Hz, and the MotionFlow being "XR480" instead of "XR980".

http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

2014 65" Sony KDL-65W950B 1080p 120hz 3D LED HDTV AVG 17ms Excellent
2013 65" Sony KDL-65W850A 1080p 120hz 3D LED HDTV AVG 18ms Excellent

2015 65" Sony KDL-65W850C 1080p 120hz 3D LED HDTV AVG ??ms ???

While the UHD Sony's are nice overall for TV and non-HDR movies, the input lag is still too high (in the 40s), and the internal upscaler chroma sub-samples 60Hz sources, even in game or graphics modes. Based off of a 1080p HDMI RGB feed to a X950B, it "looks" like RGB 4:4:4 is sub-sampled to 4:2:0! Even the 2015 UHD models from Sony only allow 4:2:0 2160p60 via HDMI, so that's why I believe all 60Hz sources might be upsampled and chroma sub-sampled to 4:2:0.

[Xyga]

I think I've read somewhere there's a high-end Samsung 4K this year with quite the low lag...

[jepjepjep]

Hey guys, would something like this NEC V323 display be any good for videogames? It has a lot of input options and 1080p resolution. There aren't any specs on input lag, but it seems to be an IPS panel.

http://www.necdisplay.com/p/large--scre ... ays/v323-2

[Xyga]

It's specified S-IPS in the specs, with 1300:1 contrast ratio (kind of optimistic), and edge-lit (not the best backlighting solution).

It seems interesting, but about twice the price of a consumer set with similar performance like the LG's which are typically IPS... too bad there's never any reviews of those ('commercial grade' displays I mean) we don't know the response and lag figures.

[jepjepjep]

OK, thanks for the info Xyga. Seems like it's not ideal. I wonder what kind of panels they use for the latest Vewlix cabs. Anyone having an idea? I imagine they'd have to be low latency for the Japanese arcade scene.

[Shining]

Review of the 50w800c is up: http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/sony/w800c

[Xyga]

Review of the 50w800c is up: http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/sony/w800c

Input Lag: 37.4 ms

(reminder: rtings show only the middle bar figure)
Oops Sony... should we blame the Android layer ?
Anyway people; rush on the 2014 models before they're all out of stock !

[BONKERS]

*Sigh* Gurd Durmnit Sony!
I was hoping this would be as good so I could wait on putting another 700+$ on a credit line.
http://www.sony.jp/bravia/products/KJ-W870C/ Sony Japan even has it in a 43" model :O


Also : "Game and Graphic mode supports chroma 4:4:4, but have an issue on certain alternating pixel patterns"

The X850C is pretty decent, but it's a flippin 4kTV (Also no 4:4:4 60hz). Which is just pointless unless you want to deal with SLI problems, spend tons of money on multiple GPUs, or you want to play emulators in 4k with CRT shaders.


The ability to adjust the "Clearness" or backlight flickering is a great feature though. Ugh

[Shining]

I'm still hopefull for the 65w850c, tho. Or should i get the 2014 55w805b for €730.. decisions, decisions.

[RGB32E]

The X850C is pretty decent, but it's a flippin 4kTV (Also no 4:4:4 60hz).

I was able to check out the 55" X850C and measured it's input lag in game mode with default settings to be 35.3ms. Not in the 20s yet, but it is an improvement over Sony's 2014 UHD models. The set was stuck in store mode, and future FW updates could possibly reduce lag even further.



I was pleasantly surprised to discover that Sony finally added 10 point color temp adjustments and adjustable Motion Flow settings, even in game mode! When raising the Clearness setting to max in game mode the Leo Bodnar tester read 44ms on the middle bar. Lowering the setting resulted in a lower input lag reading.



Very curious to see the FALD 75" X940C. Too bad there's no replacement for the 65" X950B, as the new menu settings with game mode appear to be an improvement. However, it still remains to be seen how the 2015 Sony UHDs handle scaling in game mode. I'm planning to measure input lag on the W850C as well in the near future.

[Shining]

The X850C is pretty decent, but it's a flippin 4kTV (Also no 4:4:4 60hz).

I'm planning to measure input lag on the W850C as well in the near future.

Nice, looking forward to it

[RGB32E]

I checked out the KDL-75W850C today. Nice looking set overall. It appears to use a S-IPS panel based off of the pixel structure. It appeared to produce deeper black level than other IPS panel based TVs in past generations under show room floor conditions.

EDIT: According to the specs for the 75" model it has passive 3D. Historically IPS panels only support passive 3D. Perhaps something has changed?



I took input lag measurements and was somewhat disappointed with it's 35ms reading - not horrible, but not great. I noticed several times when measuring the middle bar that it started at 30ms, then climbed up to 35ms. Most of the time it registered 35ms right off the bat. There's a decent chance that the 65" W850C has different input lag, as the panel pixel structure looks completely different. I'll have to take readings of the 65" W850C in the near future.



If you're interested in a 55" or 50" 1080p TV with low input lag I would suggest getting a W800B while supplies last! Sony doesn't appear to be making any compelling reasons to buy a 1080p over a 2160p if lag is a primary factor.

[BONKERS]

The disappointment continues

[Fudoh]

According to the specs for the 75" model it has passive 3D. Historically IPS panels only support passive 3D. Perhaps something has changed?

yes, in late 2013 the first VA panels with passive 3D were introduced. On some Sony sets as well.

I'm considering the 75X940C. I would have gotten last year's X950B if Sony had made it available in Europe, but they didn't. I need something big and bad.

[RGB32E]

According to the specs for the 75" model it has passive 3D. Historically IPS panels only support passive 3D. Perhaps something has changed?

yes, in late 2013 the first VA panels with passive 3D were introduced. On some Sony sets as well.

So could the converse be true - S-IPS panel with active 3D? The 75" panel pixel structure sure looked like IPS and not the VA I'm familiar with or could find examples of.

I'm considering the 75X940C. I would have gotten last year's X950B if Sony had made it available in Europe, but they didn't. I need something big and bad.

The X940C looks interesting, but pricy at $8k! Thankfully my AV stand is wide enough for a modern 75", but not with the side speakers on the X940C... ugg! My XBR8 has side speakers, and I'd really like to not have them on a replacement set. I think a jump from 55" to 65" would be sufficient for me, so I hope Sony does release a successor to the XBR-65X950B! I really didn't like the 1080p to 2160p scaling on the X950B, and that impulse mode in game mode is disabled. The 2015 Sony TV menus are way better than last years as well and allow variable impulse levels that is now Custom -> Clearness. The biggest thing that impressed me with the X950B was it's ability to produce a bright picture with impulse mode (high clearness), even if it isn't available in game mode.

[BONKERS]

i'm sure Sony could patch Impulse levels into last year's TV with a firmware update if they really wanted. That so far is really the only improvement i'm seeing.