Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

[bobrocks95]

Posting in here again to say I'm getting a 50W700B (because Americans like it big I guess, so I can't get the 42" version) on Friday. If anyone still knows, what does the 700 have over the current W600B again? There's a significant price difference, but as I recall lag is no longer under a frame in the 600, there's an IPS panel as opposed to the VA in the 700, and a couple other things (maybe motionflow) that I can't recall from what I've read in this thread. Any other arguments for the 700 over the 600? Is my memory anywhere near correct?

[Edward_Tz]

Depends who's measuring. Fudoh's tests show under a frame.
The W6 TV we got in America is not the same W6 TV Fudoh reviewed. The W6 we got isn't very good nor near as fast.

I got a 50W700B a few months back. Haven't had a problem.

[bobrocks95]

Depends who's measuring. Fudoh's tests show under a frame.
The W6 TV we got in America is not the same W6 TV Fudoh reviewed. The W6 we got isn't very good nor near as fast.

I got a 50W700B a few months back. Haven't had a problem.

Yeah, fully aware 2014's W6 wasn't the same as the 2013 W6, it was superseded by the W7. Wanted more specifics on 2014's W6 and what made it so much worse (other than the lag, which I know about).

[Edward_Tz]

I don't think America ever got that W6.
rtings has their review on the 2014 W6. Can check that out.

[bobrocks95]

I don't think America ever got that W6.
rtings has their review on the 2014 W6. Can check that out.

Which W6, the 2013? I know for a fact we got the 2014 W6, it's available in stores right now. Best Buy also late last year added the W7, presumably imported from their Canadian stores or manufactured from a deal with Sony.

Rting's lag ratings seem skewed compared to other sites I've looked at, including this review (different models, but I know the difference isn't that high EDIT: Guess it was), and they don't reveal how they are using the Leo Bodnar lag tester or how they interpret the results (which bar are they measuring, are they averaging the result in any way, what settings did they even use on the TV, etc.). As for the other picture quality measurements, without a comparison to the W7, they're not very helpful either.

EDIT: Decided to just dig through the thread again and found Xyga's original post on the 2014 W6- significantly more lag (a full frame more by hdtvtest's measurements), an SPVA panel with worse viewing angles as the main difference and debatably worse color reproduction, though the review of the W6 wasn't as thorough. The lag difference is a killer, though I'd still be curious to hear peoples' thoughts on the SPVA vs. the AUO AMVA panels.

[Edward_Tz]

It's good to get an idea though.

I don't think America got a 2013 W6.

[austin532]

I bought the 40" W600B and have no major complaints about it so far. It's not perfect but the picture is pretty damn fine. It's a nice upgrade from my 2009 Samsung LN40B530 which was crapping out on me. I briefly tested both the W800B and W600B before buying it and can say they are both pretty close but the W800B is slightly better. The problem is it comes in 50" which is too big for my gaming setup. Anyways I guess my pro's and con's about the W600B would be...


Pros:
-Input lag is around 29.3ms in Game Mode using Leo Bodner on the middle bar with everything off so in reality it's probably closer to like 27ms. Right? Not bad for a TV if I do say so. Anything under 30ms is considered unnoticeable even by most hardcore gamers.

-There is no need to sacrifice picture to reduce lag in Game mode. Even with all of the available features turned on it just barely and I do mean barley increases the lag by a whopping 0.03ms. So it went from 29.3ms to 29.6ms. I still prefer to keep them off though.

-The upscaling is amazing. Component 480i/p look great with hardly any aliasing issues/jaggies when playing GC, PS2, XBOX. Even Composite looks pretty decent. The colors are still mostly intact, the picture is still sharp, and there is hardly any dot crawl.

-The blacks can get pretty dark although nowhere near Plasma or CRT quality.

-Motion Blur is pretty good although there is just enough there for it to be noticeable and very slightly annoying on very fine objects like 2D backgrounds with lots of vertical lines. LED Motion Mode helps this alot as it reduces blur to near CRT level. The flickering is also not as bad as people make it out to be. (at least here in the US running at 60Hz it's not). It looks similar to an old CRT computer monitor than a TV. I was under the impression that it flickered like playing a 480i game on a CRT. This is not the case.

-TV supports Full Range RGB, Limited, and Auto for each HDMI input. Auto seems to be giving me problems with the Frameister though. You can even set each input to 601 or 709.

-The TV looks very good out of the box and can calibrate easily to 65k. Picture looks clean to. No major artifacts when sitting close to it.

-Sleek design with very thin borders.


Cons:
-While the TV is sometimes advertised as being Direct-Lit and has a thick backing to it as most Direct-Lit TV's due, I am not 100% convinced that it is. There is some faint flashlighting effects from the bottom corners and even with the lights off the black screen still looks a little grayish. Maybe it's just me.

-The TV takes about 20 seconds to fully power on. If you try to press any buttons it will say "Powering On, Please Wait" however for me by the time I turn on the TV, turn on the Receiver, turn on the Frameister, turn on the system, and then sit down it's usually done. I suppose your experience will vary.

-As far as the internal speakers go they are crap. They only output at 8W and it shows. The Treble sounds muffled and Bass sounds weak so don't expect to much out of these. You can tweak the sound using the EQ but even still you are better off buying a nice surround system or at least a soundbar for much better results.

-Build quality of the TV feels cheap. It's cheap plastic and shows some light though minor openings. The stand feels much better and is metallic however I had to raise the TV up a few inches as it's a little on the short side.

-LED Motion Mode while it tends to help reduce blur, it greatly reduces the pictures lighting and can appear pretty dark during the daytime even with Backlight and Gamma maxed out. Also it tends to give a slight double image look which is more noticeable while playing 30 FPS games compared to 60 FPS games.

-While the colors look great it tends to be a little on the soft side. While displaying a sharpness test pattern the halo effects/atrifacts didn't become noticeable until around 65 compared to my old Samsung which looked sharp at around 12

-It does not seem to support true 240p and instead converts it to 480i.


Overall though for the $440 I paid for this, it's a nice upgrade for me and probably will be for you to if using an older TV from 6+ years ago. I would recommended it if you are limited on space or short on cash.

[bobrocks95]

Thanks for the detailed post! Especially interesting to hear that you don't mind the LED Motion Mode's flickering, and it's nice to hear a comparison to a CRT in 480i (which I can personally bear). I think I'll stick with the W7 since the whole point of the purchase is getting the lowest lag television possible. I like to play Rock Band a lot, so low lag really helps whether you exactly notice it or not, and any processors I may buy in the future will only tick the number upwards.

[bobrocks95]

Well I went with the W7 after Best Buy knocked the price down another $100. I got it Sunday and I've been calibrating it today and it's looking great, the dirty screen effect isn't bad at all, blacks are super dark, the lag is indeed as awesome as they say, and the viewing angles are actually much better than I expected.

Looking at calibration guides and Fudoh's original post has been really helpful, but I've got one question- with a modern display showing full range RGB, you DON'T calibrate pluge bars (e.g. this pattern: http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/cms/wp-c ... _Main1.png) to hide everything below 17, right? That's just black crush? So when do you do that; for limited range content that uses 16 as reference black, for CRTs, for old consoles; when?

[Xyga]

Good ! I bet you mean the 50W700B ?
No idea about that part on calibration sorry.

By the way as you were wondering; Rtings only use the middle bar from the Leo Bornar lag tester (which by the high figures was more or less obvious).
Aside from game mode and various inputs and labels, they don't touch anything else (like brightness) before measurements.
IIRC they redo the tests with motion interpolation options activated when available, but they will not show figures, just mention if it increases the lag significantly.

[Fudoh]

That's just black crush?

yes, but mind that the above pattern is for use on RGB-capable players only, e.g. for PC to TV. It must not be run through any YCbCr conversion.

Setting black level on the Sonys is usually extremely easy I would be surprised if you wouldn't end up with the standard "50" setting. If you up far from that, you got a range mismatch between your source(s) and the TV's sttings.

[bobrocks95]

That's just black crush?

yes, but mind that the above pattern is for use on RGB-capable players only, e.g. for PC to TV. It must not be run through any YCbCr conversion.

Setting black level on the Sonys is usually extremely easy I would be surprised if you wouldn't end up with the standard "50" setting. If you up far from that, you got a range mismatch between your source(s) and the TV's sttings.

I was displaying it with a laptop outputting full range RGB. Setting the HDMI inputs' RGB range to auto worked nicely, and testing it by switching output modes between limited and full range showed it switching properly. I guess I'm just confused about old standards saying to calibrate to limited, which makes me wonder why that was even done in the first place. Like, should I go back and up the brightness on my Trinitron to show the full range too? Did you calibrate to limited just for TV broadcasts, or were old games made the same way? It's probably not a big issue either way, but it's a confusing topic.

Good ! I bet you mean the 50W700B ?
No idea about that part on calibration sorry.

By the way as you were wondering; Rtings only use the middle bar from the Leo Bornar lag tester (which by the high figures was more or less obvious).
Aside from game mode and various inputs and labels, they don't touch anything else (like brightness) before measurements.
IIRC they redo the tests with motion interpolation options activated when available, but they will not show figures, just mention if it increases the lag significantly.

Yup, the 50W700B from Best Buy for $700. The lag is definitely sub 1 frame, so numbers aren't too big of a deal since I don't own any upscalers, but that's good to know about Rtings! It's a nice general-purpose comparison website, but it's no surprise things aren't the most scientific when they have so many models up (and it's crowd-sourced maybe?).

Very nice TV though, even better than I was expecting. Glad Fudoh made this original review!

[Fudoh]

Did you calibrate to limited just for TV broadcasts, or were old games made the same way? It's probably not a big issue either way, but it's a confusing topic.

If you change both your source and the TV to limited, your calibration results won't change - so it doesn't really matter.

[Xyga]

On that topic I have recently experienced my W6 changing to limited on every input without me asking it.
I don't see what source could have provoked that, it could be either a DVDO, XRGB or AA, but when I checked everything on that side was full-range.
Maybe some FW weakness ?
Anyway I just put everything back on 'Auto' to see how it would behave, and it didn't happen again since then.

[FamiDriveDuo]

What's the most recent model (and preferably smallest) of this TV available in the US? And how low is the lag?

[Xyga]

50W800B or 50W700B.
About 10ms delay.

Smaller models are 32W700B and 42W700B but only officially available in Canada.
Some shops like NCIXUS or Best Buy may carry those imported models, though at horribly inflated price @ NCIX.

W600B is slightly lower-grade just with more lag (about 30ms read austin's post above) which makes it good but faced with Samsung and Vizio competition (check reviews on rtings.com)

[Sparda]

Thanks to all of you i bought a brand new 50w805b, it was cheap, i only paid 600€

[Xyga]

Thanks to all of you i bought a brand new 50w805b, it was cheap, i only paid 600€

Wut ? You lucky dog that's a great deal ! It's at least 799€ everywhere in France at the moment...

[Strife67]

Got in the 50W790B last night and holy shit, it's amazing . Blows my old 40V3000 out of the water. Lag feels even better than my last set.

Do you still have the 790B? I was wondering if you could access the service menu and see if the panel code is reported there, according to this post from the AVS Forums, you need to follow this sequence: (power off) DISPLAY, 5, VOLUME UP, POWER(on) (the panel code can be found in the last row). To exit, I guess you just cycle off and on the TV (do not change any values!).

Thanks.

[bobrocks95]

From a strict picture quality standpoint, will the W6/W7 series scale 720p games better than the 360 itself will? I have a feeling it might, but I can't remember if the 360 has a dedicated chip for scaling or if it takes up resources and would be worth switching even if the TV doesn't scale as well.

On that topic I have recently experienced my W6 changing to limited on every input without me asking it.
I don't see what source could have provoked that, it could be either a DVDO, XRGB or AA, but when I checked everything on that side was full-range.
Maybe some FW weakness ?
Anyway I just put everything back on 'Auto' to see how it would behave, and it didn't happen again since then.

It may or may not be related, but I just threw in Dragon's Dogma on my 360 and noticed that when set to auto, the TV was putting it at limited range (noticed thanks to the opening brightness slider). Double-checked the system settings to make sure it was indeed set to "Extended" range and it was. So these TVs may have trouble with color range settings sometimes?

[Xyga]

I remember reading some 'heavy' games run smoother in 720p output, but couldn't verify that myself.

Personally I leave it on 720 and let the W6 scale to 1080, because several games like e.g. Tales of Vesperia look slightly smoother with less jagged edges etc. Gorgeous.

50% sharpness does it for 720, at least in my eyes it's excellent.

[GenesisBits]

Wow I bought the 32inch 2014 version of this TV on a whim, not exactly knowing how good it was. It replaced my god awful "HD Ready" TV that was dying.

I used it for my PC games for ages before I got a 4k monitor. While I love my 4k monitor, there is something I really miss about hooking it up to my TV (I still have the TV). The color seemed a lot better and everything looked a little better. Not sure if it was a placebo effect or not but the TV was fantastic for me.

[Jelly]

After having my eyes on this thread for years I finally jumped on a deal and ordered a 55W805B for around €700.

Is there any difference other than size compared to the 50W805B? It's still low lag, right?

[bobrocks95]

After having my eyes on this thread for years I finally jumped on a deal and ordered a 55W805B for around €700.

Is there any difference other than size compared to the 50W805B? It's still low lag, right?

I think the W800's use IPS panels instead of the W6/7/9's VA panels, but that may have changed for the 2014 models. Lag should be similar, or a little bit higher than 2013's W6, but someone who remembers better should comment on that.

[Strife67]

After having my eyes on this thread for years I finally jumped on a deal and ordered a 55W805B for around €700.

Is there any difference other than size compared to the 50W805B? It's still low lag, right?

I think the W800's use IPS panels instead of the W6/7/9's VA panels, but that may have changed for the 2014 models. Lag should be similar, or a little bit higher than 2013's W6, but someone who remembers better should comment on that.

Here in Canada both the 50W800B and 55W800B use the same PVA panel from AU Optronics, I guess input lag should be the same.

[Xyga]

I think only the current W9 uses an IPS.

@Strife67: are you sure it's PVA and not MVA ?
Early in the year only the current W6 had PVA... (oh and maybe the large W790 as well)

[Strife67]

I think only the current W9 uses an IPS.

@Strife67: are you sure it's PVA and not MVA ?
Early in the year only the current W6 had PVA... (oh and maybe the large W790 as well)

My bad, yes, they are MVA, I was probably thinking about the 60" W630B that comes with a Samsung PVA panel, thanks for pointing that out.

[Zer0-2k11]

Got in the 50W790B last night and holy shit, it's amazing . Blows my old 40V3000 out of the water. Lag feels even better than my last set.

Do you still have the 790B? I was wondering if you could access the service menu and see if the panel code is reported there, according to this post from the AVS Forums, you need to follow this sequence: (power off) DISPLAY, 5, VOLUME UP, POWER(on) (the panel code can be found in the last row). To exit, I guess you just cycle off and on the TV (do not change any values!).

Thanks.

Yup, still got it. Would've replied sooner but i haven't been checking shmups as often recently.

PNL: T500HVF04-0

[Strife67]

Yup, still got it. Would've replied sooner but i haven't been checking shmups as often recently.

PNL: T500HVF04-0

Thanks, I actually ended up getting the 50W800B and can confirm that it has the exact same panel that you got on your 790B.

[blackoak]

where does the w900a stand in relation to some of the newer models? not looking to buy, just curious. is it still the lowest input lag for a 55"?