Best DS model at this point?

[Obiwanshinobi]

I feel tempted to get a DS. Which model is optimal? (My hands are large.)

[Xan]

Obviously the DSi XL for you then, unless you are talking about 3DS models as well. I feel that there is no perfect model though...

I like the clicky DSi buttons much better than the mushy DS Lite ones (don't even know what they were thinking there), but the screens there have a lot of QA issues, at least on the regular DSi. I went through like 5 of those things, all new, and each console had a different issue ranging from dead pixels to noticeably misaligned top/bottom screens and differing color temperature on both screens. The original model I have no good memories about either, its bulk caused hand cramps on longer sessions and it was also quite prone to dead pixels. So I just use a DS Lite and put up with the shitty buttons.

Btw, there's tons of fake DS Lite consoles out there so that's something to watch out for. These typically are refurbished units which basically work like a real one, but the casing isn't up to the quality of a genuine console.

[ZellSF]

DSi XL. DSi if you care about portability more than screen size.

Only reason to get a DS Lite is GBA compatibility and it's not worth the QA issues or other disadvantages the DS Lite has: a GBA SP+ is not that space consuming and a better way to experience GBA games.

You might also consider a n3DS / n3DSXL if you're on a budget and wouldn't get one otherwise. They can play DS games too, it just looks really bad because of the scaling.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The original (front-lit) GBA SP is SO underrated as a games machine. Not only it's the last (known to me) LCD screen looking good in broad daylight (nothing to be laughed at if you're into going outside), but it does the job in darkness, too. Coupled with peerless (?) durability and wildly faithful backwards compatibility (old games look simply the best on it, see the "broad daylight" passage), it makes for one beast of a device.

I'm not being crazy about the stereo amp, mind.

[BONKERS]

I find the DSiXL was far too big. The DSLite was felt too small.

I haven't had the chance to try a regular DSi, but i've pretty much used my original launch DSphat since it came out.

The colors are a little duller, but they don't feel way over saturated like the DSLite does.

Plus the motion quality on it is superb for an LCD.

GBA support is nice too since you don't have to try and get an expensive backlit modded original GBA.


The real downside is the viewing angles and the poor uniformity that gives the graphics on screen almost a "metallic" quality to them. Is the only way I can describe it.


I personally don't like the new 3DSXL either , my elder brother has one. While more comfortable than the DSiXL, the PPI is too low for anything but pixel games. Motion quality is basically the same as the original 3DS, but feels worse due to the size.

Also: DS games have to be upscaled with what ends up looking like a ugly bilinear filter. 1:1 scale size looks fairly decent on a 3DS XL though.

[R2-2D]

The 3dsxl is the best at the moment. Nice large screen, faster acces time, plays all ds ,3ds and new 3ds games.

[Xan]

The fat DS is frontlit just like the original SP, that's why the contrast and uniformity are so poor.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I only found SP's frontlit screen disappointing first time I saw it, then I got on with it and never looked back. It's partially a thing of nostalgia, but screens looking good in sunlight remind me of LCD games I enjoyed playing as a kid.
Modern backlit screens are, not unlike most wireless control devices, quite a bit of snake oil in my book.

At least hardware producers forcing touchpads and motion controls work in some (their own) interest (cheaper to produce than keyboards and such), but wireless controllers for stationary hardware save nothing; produce an awful lot of toxic waste instead and don't even liberate people afraid of electricity.
(I digress, but those who live in fear of cables do exist.)

[Thomago]

I prefer the DSlite for it's capability to play GBA games. The original DS can do that too, but well... I wouldn't want to use that thing.

Btw I got two DSlites. Both screens of DSlite #1 have an obvious red tint; the screens of DSlite #2 however have no tint (or at least not an obvious one).

[Exidna]

I only found SP's frontlit screen disappointing first time I saw it, then I got on with it and never looked back. It's partially a thing of nostalgia, but screens looking good in sunlight remind me of LCD games I enjoyed playing as a kid.
Modern backlit screens are, not unlike most wireless control devices, quite a bit of snake oil in my book.

No, there is a massive difference between a back-lit and a front-lit GBA SP.
Here is the first comparison that I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXjJ2884lKc

I can, however, see some argument to be made for the original reflective LCD if you plan on using the system outdoors and you live somewhere that it is usually quite bright out.
But for most people, I think they'd be a lot happier with the backlit screen.

[ZellSF]

frontlit screen also has less much ghosting. That applies for DS vs DSL/DSi and GBASP vs GBASP+.

[SGGG2]

If you get a New 3DS XL with an IPS screen (some are TN) it looks really good. The 3D is far better than earlier models due to head tracking. DS games look terrible scaled, and way too small at native resolution. I agree that the PPI isn't the best, but as long as the camera isn't zoomed out too much it isn't an issue. I think it's worth purchasing for SEGA 3D classics alone.

[bobrocks95]

As a PSA for anyone who isn't aware, you can hold start or select when booting a DS (or GB/C virtual console) game to use 1:1 scaling and avoid the crappy filtering the 3DS uses.

If you get a New 3DS XL with an IPS screen (some are TN) it looks really good.

Wow, I didn't know that until now. Thank God I got an IPS Majora's Mask one then; those are some incredibly shitty business practices on Nintendo's part. I guess they thought nobody would notice?

[SGGG2]

Nintendo's target market is children and casuals, not enthusiasts. I suppose since they aren't claiming any particular technology they aren't breaking any laws. Cheap hardware's one of many frustrating things about the company. Neogaf has a very informative thread here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1009798

My XL has an IPS screen as well.

[blizzz]

I agree that the PPI isn't the best, but as long as the camera isn't zoomed out too much it isn't an issue.

I went from a 3DS XL to a N3DS (normal model) because of the low resolution. In my opinion the N3DS is so much better than the XL. Already spent over 300h with it in MH4U and I really love the form factor, matte design and usable 3D. I don't need a 1440p screen on a phone, but at the size of the XL model you really need at least 480p to make it look good.

For original DS games I use a DSi. Awesome console with a sleek, matte design similar to the N3DS.

[Xan]

Nintendo's target market is children and casuals, not enthusiasts. I suppose since they aren't claiming any particular technology they aren't breaking any laws. Cheap hardware's one of many frustrating things about the company.

Sony did no better with the PSP, which certainly had quite different marketing. In fact, there was the same discussion over 10 years ago, just about Sharp and Samsung screens. I find this kind of stuff frustrating too but not enough people care so they do everything to keep manufacturing costs down. Despite that, over the years I seldom found Nintendo hardware to feel cheap in terms of actual build quality, with the exception of the garbage N64 analog sticks.

They could have well touted the New 3DSXL as having a "better screen" or whatever and shipped all units with IPS screens but clearly thought it wouldn't be worth it, the old model is going to be phased out soon anyway I guess.

[BONKERS]

The fat DS is frontlit just like the original SP, that's why the contrast and uniformity are so poor.

It's backlit.

The Gen 1 SP looks like garbage in comparison. IMO Like a cheap and poorly done mod. I loved it when it first came out because it was better than anything we have gotten but I can't stand it today.

If the Phat is front lit, i've never seen such a good front light before. Most front lights i've ever seen look like crap. (Like the gen 1 SP) And are even more unevenly lit than the Phat is.



I find the Phat to be the most acceptable middle ground and most comfortable to use of all of the original DS models for me. (Minus a DSi since I haven't owned one yet).


A gen 2 SP has way better uniformity, more accurate but slightly saturated colors (Because developers had to use such colors to make games not look like ass on the non-lit original SP) but the motion always felt a bit worse.



EDIT:

OK, wow maybe you are right and it is frontlit, I never considered that. You'd think i'd notice what with the light on/off switch in the OS. You can't turn the backlight of an internally lit screen off right?

[Xan]

Not sure, but on the backlit SP that's the case, the light button just toggles between two modes of brightness.

I do agree about the backlit SPs having more ghosting for whatever reason. There seem to be varying screens used here as well and on some the response time is almost as bad as on a 1000/2000 PSP.

[BONKERS]

When I googled some of this stuff a bit ago, found this
https://atariage.com/forums/topic/21422 ... ry-bright/


Apparently the DSi is supposed to have way better motion handling than the DSL.

This certainly interests me.

[CaptainBadAss]

I've got a DS Lite and a 3DS XL. I like how light and the shape of the DS Lite in hand. I have smaller hands so it fits nicely. But I like the display on the 3DS XL better and it's a bit faster. The 3DS XL is a bit heavier too.

[Xan]

From my experience the cooler screens on late DSi systems have the best reponse times. I'm convinced this is because of actually different panels and not just lack of calibration as the response times do vary. Even worse is when the color temperature doesn't match across screens, i.e. showing a pure white color on the top screen and a reddish white on the touchscreen.

Interesting bit about the refresh rates, these interlacing/flickering artifacts have often been noticeable to me. Pretty much present on any LCD handheld for years, I suppose they don't have enough bandwidth to refresh all lines at ones, or maybe it's even done for power saving.

[ApolloBoy]

those are some incredibly shitty business practices on Nintendo's part. I guess they thought nobody would notice?

Or that nobody would give a crap? I certainly don't.

[bobrocks95]

Or that nobody would give a crap? I certainly don't.

The TN panel makes the new head-tracking 3D not really work, and generally looks terrible compared to the IPS screen. Seems enough to warrant concern?

[kamiboy]

Nintendo's core market, kids, will neither notice nor care.

[BazookaBen]

The TN panel makes the new head-tracking 3D not really work, and generally looks terrible compared to the IPS screen. Seems enough to warrant concern?

I doubt it breaks 3D head-tracking, Nintendo wouldn't let that leave QA after they've worked so hard on that feature. And your average 3DS consumer doesn't even know the term "IPS" or "TN".

As for me personally, though, I'm certainly going to make sure I get the IPS version.

[ZellSF]

Or that nobody would give a crap? I certainly don't.

The TN panel makes the new head-tracking 3D not really work, and generally looks terrible compared to the IPS screen. Seems enough to warrant concern?

I seem to recall a few people, even in the thread linked to, saying the IPS screen actually isn't that good.

IPS doesn't automatically mean good.

[wyatt8740]

The fat DS is frontlit just like the original SP, that's why the contrast and uniformity are so poor.

It's backlit.

The Gen 1 SP looks like garbage in comparison. IMO Like a cheap and poorly done mod. I loved it when it first came out because it was better than anything we have gotten but I can't stand it today.

If the Phat is front lit, i've never seen such a good front light before. Most front lights i've ever seen look like crap. (Like the gen 1 SP) And are even more unevenly lit than the Phat is.



I find the Phat to be the most acceptable middle ground and most comfortable to use of all of the original DS models for me. (Minus a DSi since I haven't owned one yet).


A gen 2 SP has way better uniformity, more accurate but slightly saturated colors (Because developers had to use such colors to make games not look like ass on the non-lit original SP) but the motion always felt a bit worse.



EDIT:

OK, wow maybe you are right and it is frontlit, I never considered that. You'd think i'd notice what with the light on/off switch in the OS. You can't turn the backlight of an internally lit screen off right?

YOU ARE ALMOST RIGHT!

The original DS is actually backlit, but it's a transflective screen. The GBA SP original model (the front lit one) was a reflective screen, meaning that no light would pass through the panel, only light striking it would ever impact visibility. The GBA SP revised (backlit) model ONLY makes visibility different based on light passing through the LCD - it does not reflect light. The Game Boy Micro and original (fat/phat) DS are transflective where they both reflect light and pass it through. You lose some of the vividness of the backlight, and get a little of the 'washed out' look of a reflective screen, but the upside is that you can see the screen both in the light of the sun in the middle of summer and in your basement with the lights out.

Personally, I love the original 'phat' DS. The colors look more 'natural' to me somehow, and as I've said, it is truly portable in that it can be played anywhere.

Aren't convinced? look at your GBA SP frontlit model. Turn it on, turn it around so the screen is facing you, and look down at the screen from an angle. you should see only the light and not the screen glaring up at you. Now try a DS - notice how you can see it just about equally well from above as from below. That's because on the SP, it's front lit and has the light at the bottom.

Also, think of it this way - how does the NDS touch screen work with a plastic lighting element between it and the screen? It doesn't, because that light element does not exist. I have studied this, and actually even added a front light to my original GBA.

To clarify, the original DS is backlit, but due to the nature of its screen, you can see it with the light turned off in bright sunlight, where a normal backlit screen would be unviewable. I have a lenovo laptop with a backlit screen that lets you turn off the backlight - it is essentially unusable with it off, where a DS would still be viewable. I consider the DS and Game Boy Micro screens to be the best Nintendo ever put in a product.

...also, the tactile buttons of the original DS are a huge plus.

[BONKERS]

The fat DS is frontlit just like the original SP, that's why the contrast and uniformity are so poor.

It's backlit.

The Gen 1 SP looks like garbage in comparison. IMO Like a cheap and poorly done mod. I loved it when it first came out because it was better than anything we have gotten but I can't stand it today.

If the Phat is front lit, i've never seen such a good front light before. Most front lights i've ever seen look like crap. (Like the gen 1 SP) And are even more unevenly lit than the Phat is.



I find the Phat to be the most acceptable middle ground and most comfortable to use of all of the original DS models for me. (Minus a DSi since I haven't owned one yet).


A gen 2 SP has way better uniformity, more accurate but slightly saturated colors (Because developers had to use such colors to make games not look like ass on the non-lit original SP) but the motion always felt a bit worse.



EDIT:

OK, wow maybe you are right and it is frontlit, I never considered that. You'd think i'd notice what with the light on/off switch in the OS. You can't turn the backlight of an internally lit screen off right?

YOU ARE ALMOST RIGHT!

The original DS is actually backlit, but it's a transflective screen. The GBA SP original model (the front lit one) was a reflective screen, meaning that no light would pass through the panel, only light striking it would ever impact visibility. The GBA SP revised (backlit) model ONLY makes visibility different based on light passing through the LCD - it does not reflect light. The Game Boy Micro and original (fat/phat) DS are transflective where they both reflect light and pass it through. You lose some of the vividness of the backlight, and get a little of the 'washed out' look of a reflective screen, but the upside is that you can see the screen both in the light of the sun in the middle of summer and in your basement with the lights out.

Personally, I love the original 'phat' DS. The colors look more 'natural' to me somehow, and as I've said, it is truly portable in that it can be played anywhere.

Aren't convinced? look at your GBA SP frontlit model. Turn it on, turn it around so the screen is facing you, and look down at the screen from an angle. you should see only the light and not the screen glaring up at you. Now try a DS - notice how you can see it just about equally well from above as from below. That's because on the SP, it's front lit and has the light at the bottom.

Also, think of it this way - how does the NDS touch screen work with a plastic lighting element between it and the screen? It doesn't, because that light element does not exist. I have studied this, and actually even added a front light to my original GBA.

To clarify, the original DS is backlit, but due to the nature of its screen, you can see it with the light turned off in bright sunlight, where a normal backlit screen would be unviewable. I have a lenovo laptop with a backlit screen that lets you turn off the backlight - it is essentially unusable with it off, where a DS would still be viewable. I consider the DS and Game Boy Micro screens to be the best Nintendo ever put in a product.

...also, the tactile buttons of the original DS are a huge plus.

Ah, I see what you mean. (One reason I was confused whether the phat was frontlit was because you could shift it and still see the image but the colors start inverting very quickly. Where as with the Frontlit SP, it just goes to light)

And I agree the original DS, it's just super comfortable and the buttons feel great.

I can't say that about the original 3DS, which starts to get uncomfortable rather quickly. But I can deal with it rather than get an XL.

From my experience the cooler screens on late DSi systems have the best reponse times. I'm convinced this is because of actually different panels and not just lack of calibration as the response times do vary. Even worse is when the color temperature doesn't match across screens, i.e. showing a pure white color on the top screen and a reddish white on the touchscreen.

Interesting bit about the refresh rates, these interlacing/flickering artifacts have often been noticeable to me. Pretty much present on any LCD handheld for years, I suppose they don't have enough bandwidth to refresh all lines at ones, or maybe it's even done for power saving.

This was something I could not stand with the DSLite, they were so prone to having one screen looking eggshell and the other one piss cream tinted.

[Einzelherz]

FWIW I'm fairly certain that the GBC, GBA, and GBA SP1 screens are all nearly identical (save for size between the generations). If you use any of them in good sunlight, they all look pretty great.

And to answer the OP's question, my vote is on the DS Lite.

[Exidna]

The GBA SP original model (the front lit one) was a reflective screen, meaning that no light would pass through the panel, only light striking it would ever impact visibility. The GBA SP revised (backlit) model ONLY makes visibility different based on light passing through the LCD - it does not reflect light.

Though I knew that the original SP had a reflective screen, it has been years since I've seen one in person - probably not since they were first released.
Would it be worthwhile to pick up an SP for outdoor use, or does it just always have that dim, desaturated look?
I can't say that I've really been a fan of color screens that were not backlit, but I'm not sure that I've tried comparing them outdoors on a sunny day.

Most comparisons I've seen online only show the two SP models indoors in a dim room, rather than outside.
Photos like this one are just as I remember the Micro screen looking (low contrast, low saturation, with smeary LCD motion) and how I remember reflective color LCDs to look - but that is indoors.

It's a real shame that Nintendo dropped the GBA slot from the newer DS models and/or the 3DS, because I really would like one of those newer brighter backlit displays, and to have one system which can play their entire catalog of handheld games.
I'd like to revisit the DS Castlevania titles (still have my games, though not a system for them) and DSi XL's are still available new, and at reasonable prices. (a DSi XL is the largest screen for DS games, outside of emulation)
Personally I don't find the low pixel density of any of the the XL screens to be a problem, and would prefer those over the other models.
Since the resolution is the same, it's not like you have scaling artifacts on the larger display. The image is just as sharp.