What RGB Cable should I purchase? Csync or Composite?

[iwc5002]

Hello Everyone

Long time lurker here.

I finally purchased a Sony PVM 20L5 but still need to purchase the right RGB cables.

I am looking to make a purchase at retrogamingcables.com and they have two options for all of their cables.

1. CSYNC (composite sync or pure sync)
2. Composite video + sync

Which should I get???


My systems to be connected are

* SNES 1-Chip
* Original Sega Genesis
* NEO GEO AES
* Original Playstation 1
* MSX2 computer


Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[NightSprinter]

Now I could be wrong, but the PVM should accept Composite-Video-As-Sync fine. You will need a SCART-To-BNC adapter to interface. Some systems (like the Saturn) may benrfit in more stability from pure composite sync.

[iwc5002]

thank you very much!

[Xan]

Note that the C-Sync cable won't work if your SNES happens to be a 1CHIP-03 revision. Personally I'd get the luma cable instead of the C-Sync one for the PS1, seems just more reliable than powering the stripper through the console.

[korpse413]

Hey guys, in the same camp as iwc5002 here. I recently picked up a BVM 1911, the owner mentioned just to make sure to buy CSYNC, so I will take his advice unless someone says otherwise. Now is this just a one time purchase of a CSYNC scart-to-bnc like this, or do I need the CSYNC bnc in addition to other variants of a certain type of scart from console to connect to the bnc (one that is CSYNC only or something? I'm assuming the bnc portion is doing most of the work, so as long as I'm pulling signal to a scart that is connecting to it I should be fine? Basically does every or most scart pull CSYNC, and its whether or not the input cares about it to determine whether it will be used or not (this compared to that, or I am just wrong? Xan mentions sync on luma, which I see a cable for, which adds another option - mostly confusion for me, is this just a fancy way of saying its a CSYNC scart cable?
Still doing my research before I do a big order of cabling for myself. This seems to be the biggest hurtle for people as green as me to wrap their head around, since people refer to sync in different phrasing/formatting styles when they are probably the same standard (I am eager to learn - honest!).

My big fear is the only other broadcast monitor I will actively seek out to maybe replace the 1911, is the coveted BVM-D20F1U... So, I'm hoping that my big purchase of cables can be easily transitioned between the two, assuming I ever find one. I fear that one requires one format, the other the opposite - any advice out there?

My requirements are looking like this at the moment:
-Sega Genesis Model 2 to scart, might additionally grab a Model 1 cable for giggles
-Sega Saturn to scart
-SNES, N64, eventually NES after a mod to Scart (all to support that same Nintendo connection)
-Dreamcast staying VGA
-Gamecube staying Component - get some component to BNC adapters
-Playstation 2 - " "
-Nintendo Wii - " "
-Playstation 1 - Staying S-video? People will most likely laugh since why not just use the PS2... I'm just a purist I guess... (or a fool)

P.S. - Anyone know of a chart for all monitors out there for reference purposes of what they require? My first portion of my question could have been solved if this link still existed. Thanks in advance, sorry for long post. Cheers.

[Xan]

Luma is basically a b/w composite signal. The pin is normally used for S-Video. The chroma component of the full composite video signal is what mostly causes issues on some setups/consoles, so by avoiding that, you bypass a lot of those issues. Playstation consoles simply don't have C-Sync output so this is the next best thing right out of the box. I don't know whether it's enough for a CRT which requires clean sync as I don't own any such models though.

As far as a list goes, there is this: https://web.archive.org/web/20141104153 ... he-PVM-FAQ

[jugu]

I'm just as confused. I plan on connecting a ps2 to a either a Framemiester or an XRGB-3 then onto an arcade monitor. Was planning on ordering this cable:
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/son ... cable-lead

So CSYNC would be okay?

Thank you!

[RGB32E]

I'm just as confused. I plan on connecting a ps2 to a either a Framemiester or an XRGB-3 then onto an arcade monitor. Was planning on ordering this cable:
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/son ... cable-lead

So CSYNC would be okay?

Thank you!

If you're connecting a NTSC PS2 to either the XRGB-mini or 3, any of the sync options should work just fine. Issues with the default system output (RGBCv) have been reported by PAL users with generic/after market cables, likely due to inadequate shielding on the composite video line resulting in crosstalk artifacts.

If you're connecting any consoles to an arcade monitor, consider getting a SCART2ARC. This device contains a sync stripper, so you don't need the "sync stripped" CSYNC cable option (wouldn't provide compatibility or picture quality improvements).

Hence, as long as the cable is properly shielded, the RGBCv or RGBY cables should be fine (if NTSC). For arcade usage, get the SCART2ARC, as it amplifies the video signal so that it is appropriate for arcade CRT usage. I've built many PS RGB cables and have never had the cross talk issue when using the official Sony cable stock, where each signal is shielded.

[FBX]

Hello Everyone

Long time lurker here.

I finally purchased a Sony PVM 20L5 but still need to purchase the right RGB cables.

I am looking to make a purchase at retrogamingcables.com and they have two options for all of their cables.

1. CSYNC (composite sync or pure sync)
2. Composite video + sync

Which should I get???


My systems to be connected are

* SNES 1-Chip
* Original Sega Genesis
* NEO GEO AES
* Original Playstation 1
* MSX2 computer


Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

My own personal preference for XRGB use is to get CSync cables whenever possible. I've seen videos where sync-on-composite can have a less 'clean' picture, like as demonstrated after 9:22 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlrdCBjUAQ

So from your list assuming NTSC:

* SNES 1CHIP = CSync (if you have -03 revision, you'll want to restore the CSync line or go with sync-on-composite if you're too afraid to mod).
* Original Sega Genesis = The 'boosted' Csync cable.
* Neo Geo AES = Csync (supposedly serial number range of 20,000 to 33,000 has the best RGB quality)
* Original PS = Sync-on-Luma (the original PS does not support Csync)
* MSX2 = I don't know about this one (no experience with it)

[CkRtech]

Just to chime in on the MSX2 - The pinout on this can be different depending on the manufacturer. Either way, I think you should be good for CSync. I made a cable for my Panasonic WSX, and it has CSync available on the 8 pin DIN.

[BuckoA51]

If you're connecting a NTSC PS2 to either the XRGB-mini or 3, any of the sync options should work just fine. Issues with the default system output (RGBCv) have been reported by PAL users with generic/after market cables, likely due to inadequate shielding on the composite video line resulting in crosstalk artifacts.

That's definitely not the case for the XRGB3. You go with composite video for sync on most systems and you will get the dreaded "picture drops out when screen is too bright" bug. You should absolutely ALWAYS try to use clean sync with the XRGB3, or luma if that's not available.

On the Mini, personally I didn't see a difference between the two in the quick tests I did, but some have reported clean sync works better even on NTSC consoles. It certainly doesn't seem to hurt anyway, so if you're buying new cables I'd say go clean csync.

Keep in mind though some consumer CRTs will not accept clean csync cables.

I don't know whether it's enough for a CRT which requires clean sync as I don't own any such models though.

Generally no, it's not, certainly not in the case of Extron gear, for instance.

[RGB32E]

My own personal preference for XRGB use is to get CSync cables whenever possible. I've seen videos where sync-on-composite can have a less 'clean' picture, like as demonstrated after 9:22 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlrdCBjUAQ

Yes, as the video fails to explain, this is a crosstalk artifact issue caused by inadequate shielding of the composite video line.

* Neo Geo AES = Csync (supposedly serial number range of 20,000 to 33,000 has the best RGB quality)

That's not actually the case. Many users have either bypassed the RGB encoder to get better output, or in my experience with the 3-6 revision, a few simple modifications will result in excellent RGB output with CSYNC. I was able to get very clean and clear RGB output on a 3-6 AES by cutting the extra RGB traces that run under a crystal and replacing the stock CXA1145 pin 10 CSYNC output with pin 11 CSYNC output instead. On top of that, you get better audio quality output with the 3-6 rev than most of the other revisions! I take it that you were referring to Lawrence's gamesx article?

If you're connecting a NTSC PS2 to either the XRGB-mini or 3, any of the sync options should work just fine. Issues with the default system output (RGBCv) have been reported by PAL users with generic/after market cables, likely due to inadequate shielding on the composite video line resulting in crosstalk artifacts.

That's definitely not the case for the XRGB3.

There are all sorts of sync issues with the XRGB-3 in B1 (line doubling mode) beyond sync type supplied from a given console. I've tried to reproduce sync drops in B1 mode with the PS1 and my display always kept stable. However, there are certainly problem consoles/arcade PCBs such as the Neo Geo AES/MVS. Due to it's clock signal and resulting frame rate being far enough off from 59.95Hz, most flat panels won't stay in sync when using XRGB B1 mode regardless of cable sync configuration. Same goes for the Hu6260 family of consoles.

However, using B0 mode avoids nearly all of these problems! Also, a crystal replacement mod to slightly overclock the Neo Geo would be a fix as well.

The XRGB-3 is essentially two processors in one, so mentioning operation mode when describing issues is important!

[BuckoA51]

Yes sorry, B1 mode has the screen blanking problem, I'm specifically talking about the problem where the picture drops when the screen is bright (almost entirely white or very bright) which clean sync cables fix. I've also noticed other improvements using clean sync on the XRGB3 on both PAL and NTSC.

Yes, as the video fails to explain, this is a crosstalk artifact issue caused by inadequate shielding of the composite video line.

That's as may be (personally I'm unconvinced since I've seen supposedly high quality shielded cables have this issue too, but I know squat about such things, most of what I do know I learned on here , but regardless what causes it, switching to clean sync almost always fixes it, so why gamble with a regular cable if it's just as easy to fix it with a csync cable?

[korpse413]

Anyone have any thought on what I mentioned earlier? I noticed the site states for the csync bnc connector, cables have to offer - "Requires a EuroSCART cable which is wired for either 5 volts or 12 volts on pin number 8 of the SCART plug. This is needed to power up the LM1881 video sync separator circuit and without this required voltage you will not get a stable picture on your monitor. Please see diagram below which shows the location of pin 8 . If there is a wire attached to this pin then you should be good to go. If you are unsure whether your cable is wired correctly please contact us for assistance. All video game console RGB SCART cables from Retro Gaming Cables are compatible with the video sync separator version except the Nintendo GameCube."

Very tempted to order the cables... I don't want to mess up this purchase since its the most important part of the process! Please help a greenhorn

[FBX]

Yes, as the video fails to explain, this is a crosstalk artifact issue caused by inadequate shielding of the composite video line.

I've had it happen in good quality cables, though it was actually the fault of the SNES itself. It's the major reason I hunted down a 1CHIP-03 console on ebay and restored CSync on it. I vowed never to rely on sync-on-composite again if there was a CSync alternative.

That's not actually the case. Many users have either bypassed the RGB encoder to get better output, or in my experience with the 3-6 revision, a few simple modifications will result in excellent RGB output with CSYNC. I was able to get very clean and clear RGB output on a 3-6 AES by cutting the extra RGB traces that run under a crystal and replacing the stock CXA1145 pin 10 CSYNC output with pin 11 CSYNC output instead. On top of that, you get better audio quality output with the 3-6 rev than most of the other revisions! I take it that you were referring to Lawrence's gamesx article?

Well that's why I prefaced it with 'supposedly' since it was something mentioned in a couple web sites I found while Googling.

[RGB32E]

I've had it happen in good quality cables, though it was actually the fault of the SNES itself. It's the major reason I hunted down a 1CHIP-03 console on ebay and restored CSync on it. I vowed never to rely on sync-on-composite again if there was a CSync alternative.

Define good quality cables? The video made a blanket statement about using composite video as sync causing picture quality issues when it was just a cable shielding issue they were illustrating. There's a similar, but different type of artifact with a few revisions of the SNES that could explain what you're describing, but it isn't resolved by switching to CSYNC output from the SNES. There's also possibility of the RCA and RGC made RGB21/SCART to XRGB-mini adapters resulting in crosstalk as well - especially with RCA's standard cable stock - audio buzzes proportional to "APL" even with CSYNC cables!

Well that's why I prefaced it with 'supposedly' since it was something mentioned in a couple web sites I found while Googling.

Exactly! You were speculating about the matter after a cursory google search. I happen to have experience with the matter and shared.

Yes sorry, B1 mode has the screen blanking problem, I'm specifically talking about the problem where the picture drops when the screen is bright (almost entirely white or very bright) which clean sync cables fix. I've also noticed other improvements using clean sync on the XRGB3 on both PAL and NTSC.

Yes, as I've mentioned, B1 mode is a PitA and prefer the look of B0 anyways. I always wire for CSYNC in my cables if the system can output it (or "restored" in the case of some NG and SNES systems).

In the case of the PlayStation and the many PS RGB cables I've built, I've never encountered the checkerboard pattern artifact many PAL users have reported with various cables. The 21 pin adapters for the XRGB-mini I use are all individually shielded as well.

The PS systems don't output CSYNC without modification, so adding a sync stripper at the scart plug end of the cable isn't going to fix the crosstalk on the RGB lines of an insufficiently shielded cable. That's where the luma as sync idea came along - less crosstalk with non-individually shielded cable stock.

Yes, as the video fails to explain, this is a crosstalk artifact issue caused by inadequate shielding of the composite video line.

That's as may be (personally I'm unconvinced since I've seen supposedly high quality shielded cables have this issue too, but I know squat about such things, most of what I do know I learned on here , but regardless what causes it, switching to clean sync almost always fixes it, so why gamble with a regular cable if it's just as easy to fix it with a csync cable?

CSYNC cables don't really exist for stock Playstation systems as the system doesn't output CSYNC. If adding a sync separator in the destination end plug helps with dropouts in select scenarios, great! Fortunately I haven't encountered reported PS drop out issues with my equipment and am not quick to jump to a LM1881 fix if things can be resolved in a different manner.

[RGB32E]

Anyone have any thought on what I mentioned earlier? I noticed the site states for the csync bnc connector, cables have to offer - "Requires a EuroSCART cable which is wired for either 5 volts or 12 volts on pin number 8 of the SCART plug. This is needed to power up the LM1881 video sync separator circuit and without this required voltage you will not get a stable picture on your monitor. Please see diagram below which shows the location of pin 8 . If there is a wire attached to this pin then you should be good to go. If you are unsure whether your cable is wired correctly please contact us for assistance. All video game console RGB SCART cables from Retro Gaming Cables are compatible with the video sync separator version except the Nintendo GameCube."

Very tempted to order the cables... I don't want to mess up this purchase since its the most important part of the process! Please help a greenhorn

To play it safe order "CSYNC" cables for each console and the sync stripper-less 21 pin to BNC adapter. In the case of Playstation systems, it's not ideal to run through two LM1881 ICs.

If you're ordering cables from the same place, the pin 8 will likely all be wired to 5VDC. Asking the seller of said cables is also a good idea. If you currently have some cables you'd like you use with the BNC adapter, just perform a continuity test on the cable to see how they are wired!