Billabs BL25C90T pics and info

[Classicgamer]

I have had this monitor for a little over 6 months now and I wanted to post some pics and info in case anyone was thinking of buying one.

The Billabs BL25C90T is one of a handful of crt arcade monitors that you can still buy brand new. They are being sold on ebay for $435. They are just listed as "25" autosync arcade monitor".

While it is advertised as having a 24.8" tube, the actual viewable image is about an inch less. The tube is flat (ish). It is an "A" tube with a dot pitch of around .8mm which is what you want for an arcade display.

It is an analogue auto-switching tri-sync. I.e. it has no on-screen menus but it switches between cga, EGA and vga automatically so you don't need to manually change it.

With the right hardware and software, you get a good and authentic looking image in all 3 modes. Here are some pics of it running 15khz games:

Spider-Man

http://postimg.org/image/i5vtg5cw3/

Street fighter 2 HF

http://postimg.org/image/710p2wkxv/

Samurai Showdown

http://postimg.org/image/e3073btdv/


Street fighter Alpha 3

http://postimg.org/image/4cjq5mw3n/

TMNT

http://postimg.org/image/gt9j0iq2r/

X-Men vs Capcom

http://postimg.org/image/gmbh4ee4j/


Here are some pics in EGA mode:

Virtua Fighter

http://postimg.org/image/pn50vd2f7/

Narc

http://postimg.org/image/us1mz8pz7/


Here are some pics in VGA mode:

Ridge Racer

http://postimg.org/image/z54rveo3n/

I have actually been using it for my PS3 in 480p mode (using an HDMI to VGA adapter). I really like how PS3 games look on it:

http://postimg.org/image/oifgmp4ar/


There are 2 connections on the back of the monitor, a 15 pin d-sub (vga port) and a molex connector. The molex connector requires a 4volt signal to work. I use the molex port with a video amp because it produces a brighter image with better contrast. Both ports work in CGA, EGA and VGA. It accepts composite or seperate sync too.

Most of the image adjustments are on a remote board so you can keep the pots up-front. This makes it easy to make the image perfect for each game quickly.

Overall, I think this is a great monitor for mame. The image is sharp but not pixelated in any of the 3 modes. The convergence is good apart from the outermost edges but that is not unusual for a crt display.

If I was to be critical, I usually prefer a curved crt for authenticity but that is just preference. 24.8" is a weird size. Typically i would expect a 25" arcade monitor to have a 25" screen. I would class this as a 24" monitor which may be a problem if you want to replace the 25" screen in your cab. With default settings, this monitor needs a video amp to be bright enough for my taste. There are extra controls to increase brightness and contrast on the flyback though, so you can live without an amp but it is better to have one IMO. You also need to spend an extra $5 on a power cable if you don't have an arcade psu.
This monitor doesn't do well with interlaced resolutions either.


To my knowledge, the other arcade monitors that you can still buy new include: Makvision 27" tri-sync, Makvision 24.8" tri-sync (which looks the same as the billabs). The same seller as I used also has 25" cga only curved crt arcade monitors. Hantarex in the UK still has new 19" crt cga monitors. I think there may be a few more options but these are the ones I know about so don't get fooled into spending $400+ for used arcade monitors (yet).

[andy251203]

IIRC, the 24.8" tube was created to get around laws that had to do with 25" and larger TVs being required to include digital TV tuners. 24.8" tube TVs get around this requirement, so they became the standard replacement for 25" tubes, even for arcade monitors.

[Ed Oscuro]

I had a look at the Billabs website and they don't have any CRTs listed. I don't doubt there are new ones to be found, but do they still support them with parts and service? In any case it sounds like an interesting last-call source for good displays.

[Classicgamer]

The new ones are being sold by an ebay seller. My guess is that he bought up the last of their stock. The seller has them listed as "Auto-sync arcade monitor"

Here is a link if you are interested:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-25-24-8-Aut ... 1c4cbae68c

He definitely isn't the manufacturer though and I wouldn't expect to get any support beyond the 30 day warranty. He didn't seem to know much about them when I bought mine. I wanted to post some info because I couldn't find any when I was looking.

There are a number of places where you can still buy new crt arcade monitors still. As of today, one can buy brand new 19" curved cga CRT's, 24.8" flat tri-syncs, 25" curved cga crts's, 27" flat tri-syncs and 39" curved tri-syncs. By new, I mean unopened, unused and in factory packaging, not necessarily from the original manufacturer though.

[Classicgamer]

Btw, I have no idea if billabs still support any of thief crt monitors with parts and service. I believe they still sell the flat bezels for these monitors but I'm not 100%.

I am hoping that, with mine being bought from new and having moderate use, I won't need any servicing that I can't do myself for a long time. The seller guaranteed it for 30 days which gave me some confidence about not getting one that would break straight away like some of the wells gardner digital monitors did.

[MKL]

Marketing a monitor as 24.8" is incorrect as it must be rounded to 25". In any case it's incorrectly marketed for the American market because 25" is the size of the faceplate diagonal (63cm = 24.8", i.e. 25"), not the size of the screen diagonal (59cm = 23.22", i.e. 23"). This should have been marketed as 23" in America and 25" everywhere else, just like an American 19" is a 20" outside America (and 25" is 26" etc.). This monitor is surely manufactured in Asia, hence the market size mistake for America.

[Classicgamer]

I agree. Most people care about the visible screen size only. The tube size is misleading. This is especially true for arcade monitors as people might buy them as a replacement for an existing 25" monitor in their cabinet and then find that they have a gap.

I believe that Billabs, Makvision and Neiman all market the same monitor as 24.8" though, even in the US.

I think that the new 25" cga-only monitors being sold, have a 25" viewable screen. I was tempted by the cga only ones because of the curved screens. They were going for a similar price but I was ultimately swayed by the tri-sync capability.

I think that the 27" makvision tri-syncs that are being sold new actually have a 27" visible screen.

[jdubs]

I think that the new 25" cga-only monitors being sold, have a 25" viewable screen. I was tempted by the cga only ones because of the curved screens. They were going for a similar price but I was ultimately swayed by the tri-sync capability.

Very nice looking monitor. How does the auto sync-switch work? Do you have to power off the monitor first?

-Jim

[Classicgamer]

You don't have to switch the monitor off or anything like that. It just recognizes which signal you are outputting and automatically switches to it.

For example, I run my windows desktop at 480P, When I load a 15Khz mame game, It makes a clicking sound and switches modes.

There is a 75ohm / 1kohm switch on the remote board, but for mame use, you leave that in one position, no matter which mode you are using. The difference is only in the brightness of the image when you flick that switch anyway. I leave it at 75ohm.

I don't normally have to make any adjustments to the image size when switching from vga to cga either, so there is minimal fuss. For the few EGA games I play, you need to adjust the image width pot on the remote board (which I have sitting in front of the monitor).

There are 3 different B+ pots on the main board (labelled 15khz, 24khz and 31khz) which I haven't experimented with yet. I keep meaning to do more research into what B+ pots do generally but my gut says don't touch.

All in all, it is a very easy monitor to live with.

One thing you might find occasionally, is that some obscure resolutions might need a slight adjustment of the h or v hold pot (but you usually have to only do this once). Those pots are also on the remote board so it is quick.

I have an NEC XM29 here at the moment and some of the lowest resolutions roll. 256 x 240 @ 57hz for double dragon, for example. I might need to find a new modeline for that res on the NEC, or I might need to open it up. There are no easily accessible h and v hold controls. The arcade monitor seems to just work with any viable modeline (in it's range). It isn't fussy about sync either.

[Classicgamer]

BTW, I highly recommend using Mame plus 158 with this monitor. It automatically uses the native refresh rate and resolution for each game, with just a handful of modelines. It also has excellent in-game adjustments, even when using direct draw. Certain games seem to need significant changes to the gamma, contrast and brightness balance to make them look how I remember them (on any monitor). The default mame settings seem way off for some games, especially older titles from the 80's.

On some of my monitors, you can never get the image exactly right but on this one (and other arcade monitors), the effort is rewarded. If only the 24.8" tubes were curved....

Check out this pic of the direct draw slider controls in mame plus 158.

http://postimg.org/image/a9wbukb2b/

Note the controls for refresh rate. This is the only build I have seen that allows in-game adjustments to the vertical refresh rate. Certain games look noticeably better with this build than they do with some of my older mame 32 builds. Whoever created Mame plus, did an excellent job.

I can't remember if I mentioned this but, this Billabs monitor does not do well with interlaced resolutions.

[MKL]

If only the 24.8" tubes were curved....

They're very common in Europe, not in America. I know of a 23" Wells Gardner monitor though. Curved of course.

[Classicgamer]

They have curved CRT's in the US. This is just one of the later flat (ish) ones.

If I still lived in the UK, I'd probably want to buy a Hantarex polo. They are still available new there and I was always a fan of Hantarex.

You can still buy brand new 25" curved CRT's in the US. I just wanted a multi-sync one. It would be nice to have a monitor with both though.

I have generally avoided wells gardner monitors because of all the quality problems I read about. I heard some of thief older models were better though.

I want to pic up one more 19" arcade monitor for vertical games and then I'm done.

[MKL]

You can still buy brand new 25" curved CRT's in the US.

Well, of course they're curved: the US 25" size, which corresponds to 26" in Europe and Japan, does not exist in flat version.

[Classicgamer]

The only other flat crt arcade monitor size that I have seen (that is still available now) is the 27" Makvision tri-syncs which are sold as 29" in Europe. I have heard good things about those although I don't have first hand experience with them.

The 27" models have the same .8mm dot pitch as the 24.8" tubes. I was wondering if the 27" would have needed a corser pitch to achieve the same quality of image on the larger screen. I have seen some larger crt monitors with .85mm and .9mm pitches.

[cr4zymanz0r]

I wish I could get something like this with a case around it like a consumer CRT or PVM so I could set it up in my game room without looking tacky or being a potential shock hazard for idiots

[jdubs]

I really like this sucker. Is there any "easy" hood solution for them (arcade monitors)? I won't have it in a cab and worry about the potential shock hazard for visitors.

-Jim

[MKL]

I could get you an empty 25" TV case easily as this size is standard in Europe and I crack open like 5 every day. It would still be quite expensive to ship to the US I guess.

[cyborc]

I've heard of people making wooden enclosures to mount the bare CRT in.

[bobrocks95]

BTW, I highly recommend using Mame plus 158 with this monitor. It automatically uses the native refresh rate and resolution for each game, with just a handful of modelines. It also has excellent in-game adjustments, even when using direct draw. Certain games seem to need significant changes to the gamma, contrast and brightness balance to make them look how I remember them (on any monitor). The default mame settings seem way off for some games, especially older titles from the 80's.

On some of my monitors, you can never get the image exactly right but on this one (and other arcade monitors), the effort is rewarded. If only the 24.8" tubes were curved....

Check out this pic of the direct draw slider controls in mame plus 158.

http://postimg.org/image/a9wbukb2b/

Note the controls for refresh rate. This is the only build I have seen that allows in-game adjustments to the vertical refresh rate. Certain games look noticeably better with this build than they do with some of my older mame 32 builds. Whoever created Mame plus, did an excellent job.

I can't remember if I mentioned this but, this Billabs monitor does not do well with interlaced resolutions.

What about GroovyMAME? I know its whole purpose is in matching games' original refresh rates/resolutions.

[cyborc]

Thanks for posting all the great info on the Billabs. I also read your posts on arcadecontrols.com. (I assume it was you, even though the username was different, the pictures looked the same)

I am seriously considering getting one after seeing your pictures. I currently have a 19" Medical PVM that is nice but like yourself I prefer the arcade monitor look with the less pronounced scanlines. I don't plan on getting a cab so I might have to look at building some kind of enclosure.

I assume I'll need the ultimarc video amp as well. I use groovymame on my pvm quite a bit. However, I'd also like to hook up some of my consoles to the monitor as well. I am aware that game consoles don't typically output enough voltage to look good on an arcade monitor, so my main question is, would the ultimarc amp also work well for getting the consoles RGB voltages up to spec or should I look into viletim's scart to jamma adapter?

[lettuce]

I was under the impression that these multi/tri sync monitors were a bad idea for MAME projects, as switching modes frequently as a PC setup with MAME would do would cause the monitor to fail in a few years?.

I thought thats whys GrooveMame has its super resolution modes to keep the sync locked to the one mode what ever the game being played to 'save' the monitor from the stress of switch sync modes frequently and rapidly?

On a die note i see the UK gets screwed over again for sourcing new crt arcade monitors...i only know of one supplier in the UK that has stock and their asking like £650 for 29" MS monitors