Switching Jobs - a discussion

[Icarus]

I don't usually post this sort of thing on the forum, but I'm just a little curious, so here's the thing: I currently work as a front-end developer and user experience designer for a local university's in-house development team, producing UX and web development work for the university's parent company and its many divisions. I started as a part-time intern while I was actually studying for my design degree here, and last November, not long after graduating, I secured a full-time permanent position via public interview - effectively getting a promotion. I already had a lot of experience and knowledge in my field, mind, the qualification was so it'd be easier to apply for jobs etc, as well as finding out possible career paths within this field I could take.

However, lately I've been falling out-of-love with the position for a variety of reasons: for one, we have to outsource our projects to our Marketing department, meaning we have absolutely no control over the visual aspect of the work, despite the fact that we have a number of competent visual designers here. The designs from the Marketing department are… less than stellar… more akin to paint-by-numbers, and that's honestly a fair description - every design so far has had replicated elements across the board, and the designer has no knowledge of the fundamental aspects of web design (or design in general), which translates to cookie-cutter designs with poor visual contrast, terrible layouts and horrible balancing. However, we have to work with it, but it is extremely frustrating.

Lately, it feels like the work I've been doing has little to no value as a result of all the red tape we have to cut through in order to get anything signed off, and it certainly feels like any ideas or suggestions I have (changes to our workflow, suggestions for project direction etc) carry no weight for similar reasons. I can understand the push-back in some cases (financial constraints, technical difficulties etc) but for those things that could be easily resolved, it bites when it falls on deaf ears.

So cut to two Thursdays ago: I was at a UX (user experience design) conference being held every month by a group of local design studios to get people together and to spread skills and knowledge of UX. I bumped into the lead designer and founder of a local graphic design and iOS development studio that I had worked with for a couple of months as an invited intern while I was wrapping up the last year of my studies, and we caught up since it's been over a year since I was there. It was good to speak to him again, and I didn't think much else of it at the end of the after-conference drinks.

The following Monday, I received an email from him saying that it was good to catch up at the conference, and he'd like to invite me in to have an informal chat about the possibility of getting me in to work with them.



I'm going to see them today to discuss, but there's no pressure to make a decision just yet. I am going to ask them about what the position they have in mind entails, and try and get as much information as I can about the role to see how it compares with what I'm doing. I've been thinking about every possibility since then, trying to identify the positives and negatives, and getting advice from people I trust.

The main question is:
Would you be willing to take the short- to medium-term risk (reduction in salary, lower job security etc) in exchange for the possibility of working on projects that you'd have more influence on, and a possibility of further career progression? Or would you tough it out and hope that in the future, you could gradually influence beneficial changes somehow?

[Skykid]

I'd take the pay cut in exchange for an improvement in your quality of life.

There's definitely some numbers to be crunched here - you shouldn't make a move that's going to leave you in trouble. But if the new wage is liveable, simply work out the difference and figure out if it's a good trade versus a genuine positive improvement in your mindset on a day to day basis.

Ultimately I know you're a person who thrives on being creative. Allowing a job to stifle you is like slow death, and I strongly advise anyone in suffering to find a way out, or at least to a better option. You can't buy life back folks, so try to make it the least painful you can.

[Ed Oscuro]

Just a thought from outside: It's completely up to you and your own personal needs and willingness to take on risk, which varies from person to person. I can definitely think of (many, many) situations where I'd not be willing to take the risk, though this offer does sound pretty good if you're reasonably certain of the offer's future prospects.

Sometimes - arguably usually - it's necessary to just make a break. If people didn't leave unproductive environments to make new opportunities, we might be some years behind in the tech race. Perfect example is the development of the MOS 6502, the $25 CPU used in pretty much everything from 1976 on. Chuck Peddle actually wrote a letter to his old bosses at Motorola saying that they had given up rights to the concept since they were abandoning it by refusing to develop the idea because they wanted to protect their $300 chip market (a chip few could afford). The world is much better off for it. And this was probably the second time he had to make such a move, because General Electric was being run into the ground before Motorola.

My personal thought: Don't spend your working life being the comfy rug for a bunch of failures.

Best of luck and have fun out there!

[Cagar]

Money means little to nothing to me; as long as I have a home, food and internet connection, I'm good.
Whenever I'm about to get a job, I always mention that I don't care about money and that I'm ready to work with the very minimum salary. Career progress and satisfaction is pretty much the only thing I look forward to in each job offer, NEVER money or titles or any of that bullcrap.
I just want to make and be part of quality production, money is of course an extra but it's at the VERY bottom of my priorities.

I feel like an anti-materialism hippie, but this is genuinely how I feel so maybe I am one.
Money just has little to no effect on the 'quality' of my life or how happy I am, and for that I am lucky and thankful. (Thankful to who? Jesus?)

EDIT: Worth mentioning that the minimum legal salaries are easily high enough for living in Finland

[DEL]

ICR wrote:

The main question is:
Would you be willing to take the short- to medium-term risk (reduction in salary, lower job security etc) in exchange for the possibility of working on projects that you'd have more influence on, and a possibility of further career progression? Or would you tough it out and hope that in the future, you could gradually influence beneficial changes somehow?

Could you first use the offer as leverage with your current employer?
Say something like: "I'm off, unless you give me the influence I need".
Their response would give you the impetus to leave or stay with improved conditions.
Its a gamble, but if you've already got one foot out of the door, then why not?

[Icarus]

Could you first use the offer as leverage with your current employer?
Say something like: "I'm off, unless you give me the influence I need".
Their response would give you the impetus to leave or stay with improved conditions.
Its a gamble, but if you've already got one foot out of the door, then why not?

The thing is, I'm only going to have a chat with the studio about what they have in mind (in approx. 1h40m), with the goal of acquiring a more concrete and detailed job spec to peruse - the original email was quite vague, so I want to know everything first. I'm not expected to commit to anything yet, and I certainly won't make any knee-jerk reactions, no matter how annoying things get currently (and after today's events, the temptation was certainly there).

The other thing is that, owing to the structure of the business I work for and the many tentacles it has, it's exceedingly difficult for me to influence anything from my current position. Even my team leader has difficulty implementing change, even when she agrees with everything my team and I suggest, and it's a huge frustration for all of us when any ideas and suggestions we can argue clearly for are immediately dismissed with the short answer, "because". As much as I'd like to get into a position where I can start to change things, I feel that it'll either take a period of time I am not willing to invest (read: many many years), or the position itself means changing duties to things I really dislike (read: managerial stuff). If anything, I don't even think there is a path to progression here, at least not for a designer/developer.

Just today the designer at the marketing department - the guy as mentioned in the OP - actually went above our heads and sent his feedback from User Acceptance Testing directly to the primary stakeholder, completely bypassing his own team leader, and our department, within the chain of communications. The lack of communication between departments is quite shocking here, and it is fostering a feeling that everyone is working against each other rather than with each other. My team is certainly not very happy with how things are at present, but as the project is nearing final release, we're finding we have to bite our tongues and just implement the changes to appease everyone, even if said changes go against all of the principles of usability and accessibility that we've tried to implement throughout.

There's nothing more hateful to a creative than design-by-committee.

tl:dr
I just want to make fun things, not to fight through inter-departmental politics and bureaucracy.
I'm well aware that working for an agency has its fair share of difficulties and challenges (based on what some of my peers have said). At this point, though, I'm wondering if I should just take the risk, make the change, and learn from the experience no matter how negative, rather than stagnate at my current position.

If anything, I'm reminded of this poster on famed typographic designer Erik Spiekermann's studio wall, tweeted recently:

[DEL]

^Ok so I understand that the offer was far from concrete, so scrap my leverage idea for now.

It looks like the typical office bureaucracy where you work and like most office jobs - progression will be difficult.
However, considering the general economic environment, its probably best to stay for now, unless the conditions become intolerable.

-------------------------
Here's a recent one from me.
I went for an interview at a large payments processing company. They sat me down next to three guys I was to compete with. Before we went in, I said to them "Watch how they send us through hoops like performing seals."
The guy opposite me agreed and said that he'd just finished 5 interviews for one job and they had turned him down on the fifth!
Anyway, sure enough they took us into a boardroom and said: "We will now give you:
1. A 1 hour written IQ test
2. A 45min technical test
3. A group interview.
4. Timed group presentations & discussion and
5. Individual interviews.
Three and a half hours later we finished.

It was for an ground level 1 job with half hour lunch breaks.

Hoop number 6 came when they called me back a few days later, saying I'd passed the Round/s and now I had to do a 45min personality test online.

Hoop number 7 will be another interview where I will take great pleasure in turning down their poxy office slave job

[CStarFlare]

Are you especially attracted to this other agency, or has their interest reminded you that you may have opportunities outside your current job? The decision you seem to be presenting is between the two companies, but is there a chance of a job elsewhere where you can keep your cake and eat it too?

There's a lot to be said about knowing ahead of time that you'll like the culture you're being hired into, and advancement opportunities are golden. But if your salary only catches up after a year or two, will there be a part of you that will feel a little "behind" at that point?

Just thinking out loud - I'm a little more concerned about income than Cagar, but I've never been in a job I felt I had to get out of.

[Icarus]

Are you especially attracted to this other agency, or has their interest reminded you that you may have opportunities outside your current job? The decision you seem to be presenting is between the two companies, but is there a chance of a job elsewhere where you can keep your cake and eat it too?
There's a lot to be said about knowing ahead of time that you'll like the culture you're being hired into, and advancement opportunities are golden. But if your salary only catches up after a year or two, will there be a part of you that will feel a little "behind" at that point?

I've worked with them before as a short-term student intern, and the projects I was involved with were interesting and more importantly creative. At my present job, while I have done some creative work, lately it feels like I'm just another codemonkey who gets handed something from people who have no knowledge of the field they're designing for, and told to make it sing and dance. That's certainly the feeling I've been getting from our recent interactions with the Marketing department.

There are plenty of opportunities up here, but the studio that I'm going to see is involved in both user interface work (the pretty stuff), and user experience work (the involved planning stuff), which are two fields I have a lot of interest and passion for. I'm not totally familiar with the other studios in the area though, which is why I'm reluctant to go hand in my notice right now, tempting as it may be.

As for salary, I've had some awful low-paying jobs in my time, so I'm used to living on the bare essentials. Money isn't a problem (been poor before), as is job security (worked as a temp before), but career advancement and job satisfaction is very important to me.