bobrocks95 wrote:Josh128 wrote:To say that a plasmas image is inherently softer than LCD is simply not true, but its apparently a widespread myth. The only reason 240p has a soft look my F4500s (and my 1080p F5300) is because of Samsungs proprietary native 240p scaling algorithm. The 720p Panasonic Viera P50X60 plasma (that I sold to get another F4500) had much sharper and harsher 240p than both models of the Samsung despite being the identical 1024x768 anamorphic pixel resolution. N64 and PS1 games look much better on the Samsung (IMHO) due to its 240p mode.
On the flip side, if I send a 240p picture prescaled (via emulator,etc) to the sets native 1024x768 resolution, such as the Kega Fusion pics I posted in the F4500 thread, the result is a razor sharp picture. If I set the emulator to 480p to enable the sets 480p scaling mode, the resulting image is also sharper and harsher than its 240p mode. This can be seen in some of the pics 22point8 posted of Kirby SNES in the F4500 thread.
It really has nothing to do with plasma vs. LCD and has everything to do with whether you are using native resolution or a non-native res that uses the sets built in scalers. A native 1080p image on my 5300 is as razor sharp as any LCD Ive ever seen, just the same as a native 768p image on the F4500s. Ive seen many 1080p LCD sets whose 480p scaling is a blurry mess, not nearly as crisp as what the 720p F4500 produces. The only things that really affect this is the native res of the set and how a non-native res is scaled when displayed, the actual display technology itself (at least with OLED vs LCD vs plasma) has very little to do with it.
Literally haven't read the rest of the thread, so it's on me if this has already been stated by someone else or seems out of line, but as I recall Josh you crank up your sharpness to a fairly high level, which causes ringing in the picture. It's entirely likely your plasma set looks nice and sharp then, but as far as I can tell most people prefer a natural sharpness that doesn't add artifacts to the image. Maybe toe-to-toe with LCDs at more neutral sharpness settings your plasma isn't as sharp as you think. It's very widely reported that LCDs are sharper than plasmas, and it makes sense given their construction, so I don't know why you feel the need to say everyone's wrong about it. 480p on my new (1080p) Sony LCD is indeed sharper than 480p on my plasma EDTV (480p native), and that's with a calibrated sharpness setting on each.
Any talk of sharpness differences of plasma vs. LCD is pointless unless the comparison is being done in the native resolutions of the sets being compared. Ive already said it, but the sharpness (or lack thereof) of the pics I posted earlier has nothing to do with plasma vs. LCD and everything to do with the method of how the scaling/stretching of 240p content is handled by the internal scaler of the set.
Actual resolution does also make a difference--moreso than panel tech difference-- its understandable, (but still a little strange, considering 480p does not scale evenly into 1080p) that your native 480p EDTV cant match the sharpness of your 1080p panel. The fact that it is a plasma likely has little to do with it.
Lets not derail this thread on this, but again, its for the most part a big misconception that plasma tech inherently produces a softer image than LCD. Differences directly related to the tech, if any, are miniscule-- nothing even close to dramatic a difference as shown between FBXs pic and mine. Those differences are 99% related to how the image is scaled.
Back OT-- I went back and for the sake of critiquing the quality of PS2 Slim Component, I took comparision shots of the PS2 Slim Component Native 240p vs PC HDMI PSX Emulator at 720p with Bilinear Filtering vs PC HDMI PSX Emulator with near perfect 3x Scaling. These shots show 3 things--
First, and most important to the topic at hand, the PS2 Slim Component output is outstanding-- easily comparable to HDMI. HDMI should be the best of all, so the lack of pics from a PS1 with RGBs to compare to ought to be a moot point now, at least for the PS2 component comparison.
Next, there is quite a difference between the proprietary native 240p scaling on the Samsung F4500 plasmas and the bilinear filtering used in many emulators-- its pretty easy to see the different, in my opinion, superior, look of the F4500s 240p mode. Regarding my previous use sharpness, the pics here are at a lower sharpness of 35. Despite being ridiculed earlier in this thread, I stand by my assertion that this mode really looks good in person and does not appear muddy at my normal playing distance-- which is 4.5 feet on this 51 inch screen.
Finally, the crisp 3x shots demonstrate that the lack of apparent sharpness in my original pictures has nothing to do with the set being a plasma, and everything to do with the way the scaling is handled.
*Note, the vertical lines appearing in the solid grays, such as on the staircase, especially in the PS2 Component full screen shot, are an artifact of my camera-- looking back at the pictures, I noticed that along with the rainbow effect and didnt remember any such thing in the actual game-- I just went back and checked again and that is definitely not in the image on the TV-- I guess it has something to do with a moire effect in my camera on those colors at the distance which I took the pics. I went back and lowered sharpness even more, to 25, just to see if it would make a difference in the picture-- it didnt help at all.
25 sharpness photo here:
http://i.imgur.com/4ReWtu9.jpg
Full Res Album here:
http://imgur.com/a/h3yJx
