Sony BVM Model Questions

[DatPhosphorGlow]

I've read many threads regarding the BVM monitors but am still a bit confused. I've decided I want a 20" model. The modern-est consoles I play are N64 and PSX (rarely), do both these consoles output in 15hz? The monitor will spend most it's time displaying 8 bit consoles.

I wanted to know which Sony 4:3 20" BVM Monitor has the absolute best picture quality.

There seems to be a lot of hype over the BVM-20F1U, but based on my understanding there are newer 4:3 models than the BVM-20F1U.

Is picture quality equal among all the 20" BVMs?

Do newer model 4:3 BVMs produce better picture quality? (not considering usage hours as a factor)


Cheers,

Carthik

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, all your consoles will be 15KHz only. That is essentially analogous to 480i resolution - 480 lines from top to bottom at 30 frames a second, interlaced (split) into two sets of fields, each having 240 lines. 8-bit consoles put the lines on top of each other, so you get 240 lines top to bottom at 60 frames a second. 31KHz and 24KHz displays are nice to have, especially if you get into unusual arcade or later gaming, but for old home consoles that's irrelevant.

tl;dr - A BVM at the same price and in the same condition as a PVM is generally a better deal, but a great clean ex-medical PVM found more locally is likely a far better deal than a far-away ex-film production BVM of unknown quality. Good quality late-model TVs can also be surprisingly great bang for the buck, especially with the systems you mention, so that the "jump" to professional / broadcast monitors will be essentially unnoticeable. Get what you want, but make sure it's in top shape, check the screen quality - including the BVM's hours counter in the menu, if you get one of those, and don't pay too much.

More detail version:

Before you think about a potentially expensive purchase, here's a question: What do you mean by "best quality?" Preferences matter, and "best quality" just means that the tubes were designed for specific uses - industrial or broadcast imaging far more demanding than video games. People will quote the high horizontal resolution figures (TVL spec) of (some) BVMs at you all day, but it doesn't guarantee a pleasing image in use, nor do higher figures really guarantee a better image. Even slightly lower-specced industrial/medical PVMs separate the lines much more strongly than any consumer television, along with making the transition side-by-side from one pixel to another much sharper. Overall I prefer this, but consider looking into photos people have taken of their screens to have a better idea what you're getting into. Your main worry should be finding a unit without heavy use and recent build date so that your TCO is low and uptime is high Nothing sucks more than buying your "ideal" monitor at high cost, only to find it has problems.

PVMs typically seem easier to use than BVMs. On the other hand, the BVM has sweet hardware for controlling geometry, and they are built better (though at the cost of a bit of extra weight). Additionally, a 650 TVL spec'd PVM will be more than sufficient for 90% of the library, at least. I have a 650TVL PVM (20L2-MD) in 20" and played a bunch of Xbox games in it - my 800TVL PVM 20L5 might sweeten things slightly in 15KHz / 480i, but only slightly. PVMs offering the 800 TVL spec include the PVM-20M4U and the PVM-20L5. I haven't done exhaustive viewing of PlayStation and N64 high resolution content on the system, but the low-resolution stuff has no realistic room for improvement at 650TVL.

For composite sources, a built-in three-line (aka "3D") comb filter is essential, unless you use a plug-in unit. It blows away most interference on good composite outputs at the cost of 1 line of lag (which is nothing). On a PVM I find the result out of an unmodified SNES mini is very close to RGB-quality - the PVM is more forgiving than digital capture.

On the BVM side I can't tell you much except to say that there are a variety of options. In the slightly older (1996-2000ish) BVM-20X1U series (US release), "X" gets replaced with another letter - E, F, G. G series is specified at 800 TVL; 900 for the common F, and the rare E variant has 1000 TVL. But here I don't think there's much to be gained, for the systems you quote, with most systems, in going well beyond 800 TVL. Assuming your maximum horizontal resolution is 750 pixels (or so), 800 TVL is defining those well. There might be some slight definition boosts at the next steps from staggering the side-by-side stripes meeting the source pixels, but it can't be much. Already the 800 TVL tube is going to sharply define more pixels than any of these sources will be outputting.

And finally, don't discount good late-model TVs like the Wega, though they will probably have to be larger to get full detail out of your N64/PSX consoles. The flatscreen era and the late curved-screen Trinitrons are still out there, and you can transcode RGB into YPbPr component. The only thing to watch out for are geometry problems in the flat screen models. Screens available at 27" and up are a massive size improvement if you decide 20" really is too small.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

"The BVM-20F1E is the very best CRT I've ever seen" Fudoh
The experts are saying that the BVM-20F1U is possible the best monitor for 240p content which should be your 8bit consoles. Your best bet would be to see if board members could demo their setup, if they are in your area. You will have the chance to see different setup PVM/BVM/others. Then pick the monitor that looks right for your eyes and start looking for one. Also demo the XRGB mini, who nows you might also deside to go that route. I had the portunity to play with a few monitors and I can tell you that to my eyes the BVM-20F1U is the best for NESRGB content. I have not even play with the settings to try to get the best picture possible. Aslo be aware (if you are new to these monitors) that these monitors have something call grill wires (two horizonatal wires on the monitor) that will be noticible every now and them with sourtain consoles and games.

I've read many threads regarding the BVM monitors but am still a bit confused. I've decided I want a 20" model. The modern-est consoles I play are N64 and PSX (rarely), do both these consoles output in 15hz? The monitor will spend most it's time displaying 8 bit consoles.

I wanted to know which Sony 4:3 20" BVM Monitor has the absolute best picture quality.

There seems to be a lot of hype over the BVM-20F1U, but based on my understanding there are newer 4:3 models than the BVM-20F1U.

Is picture quality equal among all the 20" BVMs?

Do newer model 4:3 BVMs produce better picture quality? (not considering usage hours as a factor)


Cheers,

Carthik

[Fudoh]

Please note that this

"The BVM-20F1E is the very best CRT I've ever seen" Fudoh

does not neccessarily imply this

The experts are saying that the BVM-20F1U is possible the best monitor for 240p content

In the same text I mentioned that the BVM's 240p image is very LCD-like, so you should at least know what you're getting into. There're enough people that prefer a coarser look with a more visible RGB dot/mask structure which you get with lower end CRT monitors and TVs.

[kamiboy]

For my taste the best 240p image quality that I've seen has been from a PVM L2. The perfect amount of gap between scanlines for anything from NES games and up. The PVM 2530 produced excellent results as well, and had the benefit of larger screen size.

The least pleasing 240p image I've seen was from a BVM A.

[Einzelherz]

I think a lot of the confusion comes from TVL numbers. Possibly due to how other displays are categorized, this may leave people to think higher equals vertical resolution.

From what I can tell higher TVL means that any given horizontal line is smoother. On my 800 line 14" monitor this means the line is completely solid without breaks. This is what Fudoh means when he says it looks like an LCD. It's one solid painted line with no black between neighbouring pixels.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

thank for the clarification...to my eyes the LCD like seems to be better for NES (clear, bright and very sharp image) 20F1U; I do not get into the technical part. Again, I think that Carthik should demo a few before deciding since it cames down to personal preference and eye site:)

In the same text I mentioned that the BVM's 240p image is very LCD-like, so you should at least know what you're getting into. There're enough people that prefer a coarser look with a more visible RGB dot/mask structure which you get with lower end CRT monitors and TVs.

[mvsfan]

[quote="SNK-NEO-GEO"]"The BVM-20F1E is the very best CRT I've ever seen" Fudoh
The experts are saying that the BVM-20F1U is possible the best monitor for 240p content which should be your 8bit consoles. Your best bet would be to see if board members could demo their setup, if they are in your area. You will have the chance to see different setup PVM/BVM/others. Then pick the monitor that looks right for your eyes and start looking for one. Also demo the XRGB mini, who nows you might also deside to go that route. I had the portunity to play with a few monitors and I can tell you that to my eyes the BVM-20F1U is the best for NESRGB content. I have not even play with the settings to try to get the best picture possible. Aslo be aware (if you are new to these monitors) that these monitors have something call grill wires (two horizonatal wires on the monitor) that will be noticible every now and them with sourtain consoles and games.

everyone seems to mention these aperature wires but i have yet to notice them. i just cant see them no matter how hard people tell me to look.

I just cant see them on either my pvm or my 32" wega.

And actually Im glad about that. Im happy i dont.

[tacoguy64]

The BVM can be a little difficult to find if you are not in the right area. I was lucky in that there were plenty of them out in CA, and was able to get mine for a "bargain". Honestly I can say that so far when it comes to 2d games, it really has the best image I have ever seen. But like some people in this thread have posted, opinions may vary.

As far as picture quality across all bvm models, I believe they are pretty much even across the board. The only difference that I know of with the newer models is that they can display different resolutions.

For me I have bought into the hype, I'm really loving my BVM. I don't know what it is but my eyes just love the image. Now I don't have many other monitors for comparison, but both the NEC XP 37 plus and my 50 inch Panasonic plasma with an xrgb mini produce a a picture quality that is similar to each other. They both look great and are ideal if you want to game on bigger screens. Though I am finding myself using the plasma least out of the three monitors. There's a thread in the forums here that go over the later model consumer Sony TV's and those look pretty nice as well. If you are just starting out or want a bigger screen, those would be good choices as well.