Under Defeat for DC

Kron · Post by **Kron** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:51 pm

Thats somewhat gratifying to see a partial snippet of the email I sent to G.Rev a few months ago used on their Q&A.

Good to hear they've had lots of interest about the game and a DC port from customers overseas.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:38 am

SAM wrote:
Seven Force wrote:There's 6 stages and 2 loops.
I thought there are only 5 Stages.

Oops, you're right. Sorry, got it mixed up with something else.

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:06 am

you all know I sent in a couple letters too :p Nice to know they received many

neoalphazero · Post by **neoalphazero** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:44 am

G.Rev renewed their web mag today, they confirm there will be a original element to the DC port. They also thank fans for their letters but are still wary of the sale potential of DC Under Defeat. *-neo

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:49 am

neoalphazero wrote:G.Rev renewed their web mag today, they confirm there will be a original element to the DC port. They also thank fans for their letters but are still wary of the sale potential of DC Under Defeat. *-neo

In this case, the sale figure of Under Defeat would properby decide whether we would get Senko no Ronde on DC.

Kron · Post by **Kron** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:47 am

They've also updated opening the DC specific page and their are some great additions, They say the original arcade team are working on the port and it will be 100% arcade perfect...

http://www.grev.co.jp/ud_ac/dreamcast.html

Tate mode is in.

You can save entire replays of a stage that you've played and watch them back at different camera angles

There will also be an arranged soundtrack that you can choose in the options.

There will be a high quality rendered picture gallery.

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:15 am

Kron wrote:They've also updated opening the DC specific page and their are some great additions, They say the original arcade team are working on the port and it will be 100% arcade perfect...

http://www.grev.co.jp/ud_ac/dreamcast.html

Tate mode is in.

You can save entire replays of a stage that you've played and watch them back at different camera angles

There will also be an arranged soundtrack that you can choose in the options.

There will be a high quality rendered picture gallery.

Wow wowow!!!

I cannot wait til 23 March.

chtimi-CLA · Post by **chtimi-CLA** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:56 am

neoalphazero wrote: They also thank fans for their letters but are still wary of the sale potential of DC Under Defeat. *-neo

i bet this is going to sell like hot cakes

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:05 pm

Today I had the pleasure of seeing somebody 1CC the game!

Stage 5 is called "Graveyard" and is a post-nuclear cityscape. This is also where (as in all good war-shmups) you fight an armored train. You also have to square off against a number of mini bosses.

The guy playing looked VERY relieved in the end.

Talked with him, and it was his first time 1ccing UD.

You can save entire replays of a stage that you've played and watch them back at different camera angles

Wooohooo!!! So awesome!

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:34 pm

Kron wrote:You can save entire replays of a stage that you've played and watch them back at different camera angles

That sounds great, but I wonder how they're going to get that to work for a 2D game.

Wouldn't turning the camera angle in real 3D during an actual replay of 2D gameplay create inconsistencies in the collision detection?

I mean this kind of scenario:

click to expand

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:22 pm

Actually, no, because the whole game is based on a real 3D model. It's not at all a 2D game, but a real 3D game, that just has a single overhead viewpoint.

The game already takes account of the height of structures, so for example, if you see a tank behind a hangar and your heli is at a distance in front of the hangar, you are not able to shoot the tank in the game, because from the helis perspective it is not withing the line of fire. You will just hit the roof instead. Only when you move right over the hangar, the tank will be within the line of fire, and you will be able to shoot it.

Even though the heli shoots in a straight line from air to ground, Grev got around the specific problem you illustrate, because enemy shots behave differently from yours. Instead of flying at you in a straight line, shots fired from the ground rise up in a small curve, and then fly straight at you, once they have reached the same level as the heli. That's why in the game, shots appear slow at first, and then suddenly become faster when they fly towards you.

During the game over/continue countdown, the game actually freezes at the point you were last hit, and the camera moves all around your about-to-explode heli, while all the bullets are suspended in the air (like that Matrix bullet effect). Looks very cool indeed!

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:27 pm

Awesome post, Seven Force. First I've heard someone explain that. I haven't watched the videos that closely, but still.

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:39 pm

Seven Force wrote:Even though the heli shoots in a straight line from air to ground, Grev got around the specific problem you illustrate, because enemy shots behave differently from yours. Instead of flying at you in a straight line, shots fired from the ground rise up in a small curve, and then fly straight at you, once they have reached the same level as the heli. That's why in the game, shots appear slow at first, and then suddenly become faster when they fly towards you.

Enemy shots yet to climb to the same level as your heli cannot hurt you. My friend said that you have to make use of this fact in order to dodge enemy fires in the 2nd loop.

This surely take quite some pratice to learn judge the height of the shots within the game. This is the one and only one point I dislike in this game, otherwise it would be perfect.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:14 pm

Kron wrote:There will also be an arranged soundtrack that you can choose in the options.

This leads me to a question.

The OST CD included with the LE version of the game... will it contain the original arcade OST, the arrange OST or both? I guess if Border Down is anything to go by, we can expect both.

And I hope that Under Defeat sells out just like Border Down did. It'll certainly give G-Rev something postitive to consider in regards to a DC Senko No Ronde.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:30 pm

SAM wrote:
Seven Force wrote:Grev got around the specific problem you illustrate, because enemy shots behave differently from yours. Instead of flying at you in a straight line, shots fired from the ground rise up in a small curve, and then fly straight at you, once they have reached the same level as the heli. That's why in the game, shots appear slow at first, and then suddenly become faster when they fly towards you.
Enemy shots yet to climb to the same level as your heli cannot hurt you. My friend said that you have to make use of this fact in order to dodge enemy fires in the 2nd loop. This surely take quite some pratice to learn judge the height of the shots within the game.

Almost sounds like G.Rev designed the game first to support the dynamic 3D camera effect, and then put the unusual enemy shot trajectories in later to make it work right. It's an interesting workaround to the 2D/3D problem, certainly.

Seven Force wrote:the heli shoots in a straight line from air to ground

I wonder if this is a homage to Taito's Gyrodine (1985), G.Rev are ex-Taito and your description sounds characteristic of that game's secondary fire...

roker · Post by **roker** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:09 pm

SAM wrote:Enemy shots yet to climb to the same level as your heli cannot hurt you. My friend said that you have to make use of this fact in order to dodge enemy fires in the 2nd loop.

This surely take quite some pratice to learn judge the height of the shots within the game. This is the one and only one point I dislike in this game, otherwise it would be perfect.

ooooooohhhh

that doesn't sound too good

reminds me of the background foreground difficulties (albiet minor for the most part) in Gradius V

drsmoo · Post by **drsmoo** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:53 pm

Seven Force wrote:Today I had the pleasure of seeing somebody 1CC the game!

Stage 5 is called "Graveyard" and is a post-nuclear cityscape. This is also where (as in all good war-shmups) you fight an armored train. You also have to square off against a number of mini bosses.

how did the detail(complexity) of the city/stage compare with the likes of ikaruga, zero gunner 2 and border down

also, I think this is an example of the multiple angles http://am.sega.jp/utop/free/underdefeat_op.wmv

SNKJorge · Post by **SNKJorge** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:23 pm

That's sounds like a weird feature. Something new to get used to.

SAM wrote:
Seven Force wrote:Even though the heli shoots in a straight line from air to ground, Grev got around the specific problem you illustrate, because enemy shots behave differently from yours. Instead of flying at you in a straight line, shots fired from the ground rise up in a small curve, and then fly straight at you, once they have reached the same level as the heli. That's why in the game, shots appear slow at first, and then suddenly become faster when they fly towards you.
Enemy shots yet to climb to the same level as your heli cannot hurt you. My friend said that you have to make use of this fact in order to dodge enemy fires in the 2nd loop.

This surely take quite some pratice to learn judge the height of the shots within the game. This is the one and only one point I dislike in this game, otherwise it would be perfect.

umi · Post by **umi** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:32 pm

In that case, it's just like Raystorm/Raycrisis? It was quite easy to manage in those games, very intuitive I thought. Hopefully it's the same case here...

SNKJorge wrote:That's sounds like a weird feature. Something new to get used to.

SAM wrote:
Seven Force wrote:Even though the heli shoots in a straight line from air to ground, Grev got around the specific problem you illustrate, because enemy shots behave differently from yours. Instead of flying at you in a straight line, shots fired from the ground rise up in a small curve, and then fly straight at you, once they have reached the same level as the heli. That's why in the game, shots appear slow at first, and then suddenly become faster when they fly towards you.
Enemy shots yet to climb to the same level as your heli cannot hurt you. My friend said that you have to make use of this fact in order to dodge enemy fires in the 2nd loop.

This surely take quite some pratice to learn judge the height of the shots within the game. This is the one and only one point I dislike in this game, otherwise it would be perfect.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:09 am

Very cool, the multi-camera replay mode has me most intrigued. See the pretty Naomi sparks and 'splosions from different viewpoints? Nice.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:26 am

drsmoo wrote:how did the detail(complexity) of the city/stage compare with the likes of ikaruga, zero gunner 2 and border down.

It's very dark, and looks really wasted. There's lots of smoke rising from the ruins, which looks very cool. The city looks very European-like, with torn-up cobblestone roads, etc. Definitely very WWII inspired. By the point the screen is filled with so many bullets though, so it's a bit hard to see what's going on on the ground. Also the level doesn't only scroll up-down, but diagonally and backwards too.
During the final boss battle you not only have to dodge the enemy's attacks, but also the air strikes from your side, coming from behind you. Oof! o_O

roker · Post by **roker** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:42 am

isn't Under Defeat a bit of Engrish?

I mean are they trying to say:

Under Attack or Nearly Defeated?

sounds a bit dodgy if you ask me

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:44 am

Yeah, but it only adds more to the magic.

A winner is we.

dark penguin · Post by **dark penguin** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:12 pm

roker wrote:isn't Under Defeat a bit of Engrish?

I mean are they trying to say:

Under Attack or Nearly Defeated?

sounds a bit dodgy if you ask me

Reminds me a bit of "In the Hunt"

greg · Post by **greg** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:56 pm

Segadirect.jp still isn't recognizing Under Defeat. Strange. I was hoping they will carry it and include some neat goods with preorders (Japan shipping only). Hopefully they'll list it soon so that I can order it through them and pick it up when I visit my family in Japan this spring...

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:50 pm

greg wrote:Segadirect.jp still isn't recognizing Under Defeat. Strange. I was hoping they will carry it and include some neat goods with preorders (Japan shipping only). Hopefully they'll list it soon so that I can order it through them and pick it up when I visit my family in Japan this spring...

Well, it's only been announced officially by G.REV on Friday (or was it thursday?) so I guess it'll be on SegaDirect soon enough.
I too hope for a cool Segadirect extra like the Border Down mouse pad.

*** Looks at mousepad and sheds small tear of joy ***

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:01 pm

doesn't segagaga domain do the sega direct preorders

Post by **nZero** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:09 pm

neoalphazero wrote:G.Rev renewed their web mag today, they confirm there will be a original element to the DC port. They also thank fans for their letters but are still wary of the sale potential of DC Under Defeat. *-neo

That last letter from the person in the U.S. was cute, albeit a bit difficult to understand

Neon wrote:doesn't segagaga domain do the sega direct preorders

Yeah, Yakumo usually seems to do Sega Direct pre-orders if there's enough demand. Seems likely in this case considering he is/was doing the Radilgy + Phone Card set as well.

Kron · Post by **Kron** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:33 pm

nZero wrote: That last letter from the person in the U.S. was cute, albeit a bit difficult to understand

What makes you think I'm American?

Neon wrote:
nZero wrote:doesn't segagaga domain do the sega direct preorders

Yeah, Yakumo usually seems to do Sega Direct pre-orders if there's enough demand. Seems likely in this case considering he is/was doing the Radilgy + Phone Card set as well.

I've already said on the previous page that Yakumo has got a pre-order of the impending Sega Direct version up on videogameauctions.com

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:11 pm

Where can I see those letters? I can't find the webmag on the GRev site, and I can't read squat japanese. (Except for the "No" in Senko No Ronde).