Why XBOX360 JP Dominance over PS3

[crithit]

Hi All!

Quick Question, could someone explain please why the J XBOX360 Shmups
dominated big time over dev for Sony PS3 ??

Is this Microsoft vs Sony? Im interested in the background, why the devs prefer the J XBOX360
platform for shmups vs the PS3..

Thanks All!

[drunkninja24]

Simplest and most concise answer to this question is that it was simply less expensive and/or restrictive for shmup devs to release on 360 initially, the audience in Japan then bought the system for shmups, and further releases followed suit.

Proof of this is pretty well in the hard sales numbers, every shmup that has seen a 360 and PS3 release in Japan, the 360 version has always been the best selling version.

[zendor118]

I think Microsoft knew that the Japanese market would be Sony dominant. In order to try to be competitive, they had to strike a deal with developers to get in the door. My guess is that they picked the shmups genre and made it clear that Microsoft would want to be THE platform for all these games. Without it (see xbox one), I dont think they have any business in Japan other than being displayed behind a case in a store in Tokyo.

[system11]

360 was cheaper and easier to develop for.

[KAI]

Because Sony is a graphicnazi.

[ZacharyB]

I think what KAI is trying to say, is that early on, if I remember correctly, the PS3 had a strict "no 2D games" policy.

[ptoing]

I think what KAI is trying to say, is that early on, if I remember correctly, the PS3 had a strict "no 2D games" policy.

I think that as well as no old 2D games as physical releases, IIRC.

[zendor118]

I think what KAI is trying to say, is that early on, if I remember correctly, the PS3 had a strict "no 2D games" policy.

Now that you mention it, you're right. I do remember reading about that policy. A shame really. PS3 could have had no-region locked shmups. That would have been epic.

[crithit]

ok thanks all for the answers.. BTW i couldnt even imagine what happens, if they would dev
a 2d shmup for the ps4 using 100% (or almost) of its power, THAT would be awesome..

What would that games look like using the ps4 to its full potential, but only for 2d..

[Oniros]

At this point, this should be a sticky for all newcomers to see.

[system11]

I think what KAI is trying to say, is that early on, if I remember correctly, the PS3 had a strict "no 2D games" policy.

Actually I thought it was the PS2 which had that policy.

[Pretas]

This thread is about 5 years past its expiration date.

[GrantWindsor]

Actually I thought it was the PS2 which had that policy.

The same thing was also said of the NA PSone, though Raiden Project ended being a launch title. Despite hearing this for multiple PS generations, I've somehow managed to build a nice collection of 2D PSone, PS2 and PS3 games.

The simple answer to this whole thread is Cave. That's it. Certainly, games like Raiden Fighters Aces and Shikigami No Shiro III wouldn't have done it alone. Nor DoDonPachi Daioujou from 5pb, for that matter. It took Cave themselves throwing their weight behind it to carve out that niche. Subsequently, the user base which was established for shooting games on the system made it attractive (and profitable enough) for others, to include Konami, to occupy those same waters.

That whole scenario was probably a big WTF at first for Microsoft in Japan. Much effort was made up front in courting the JRPG user base (Blue Dragon, Star Ocean: TLH, infinite Undiscovery, Lost Odyssey, Tales of Vesperia, etc.), only to see that fizzle out. Still, that was the best chance to take to turn around Xbox fortunes in Japan. Shooting games wouldn't have had, nor did they have, any appreciable effect on dismal 360 sales.

[Elixir]

The simple answer to this whole thread is Cave. That's it. Certainly, games like Raiden Fighters Aces and Shikigami No Shiro III wouldn't have done it alone. Nor DoDonPachi Daioujou from 5pb, for that matter. It took Cave themselves throwing their weight behind it to carve out that niche. Subsequently, the user base which was established for shooting games on the system made it attractive (and profitable enough) for others, to include Konami, to occupy those same waters.

That whole scenario was probably a big WTF at first for Microsoft in Japan. Much effort was made up front in courting the JRPG user base (Blue Dragon, Star Ocean: TLH, infinite Undiscovery, Lost Odyssey, Tales of Vesperia, etc.), only to see that fizzle out. Still, that was the best chance to take to turn around Xbox fortunes in Japan. Shooting games wouldn't have had, nor did they have, any appreciable effect on dismal 360 sales.

All of this is wrong. You're basically just fucking guessing at this point.

It was Senko that took the lead. Microsoft was accepting of G.rev's work, and as a result Gulti and Cave noticed and followed. Cave's work (Asada's stuff) consistently dished out Cave releases thanks to a memory exploit found in 360 development, which was mentioned in an interview somewhere. 5pb's involvement in Cave's releases was not surprising, I recall hearing about Asada and Chiyomaru going for drinks and being work buddies. It's no surprise that Asada is now working for 5pb, much like it's no surprise that 5pb tried their hands at shmups themselves with Bullet Soul (actually Tachyon, who have worked with various companies including Success, Takumi and Milestone in the past).

So much misinformation in this thread, it hurts my fucking head.

[GrantWindsor]

It was Senko that took the lead. Microsoft was accepting of G.rev's work, and as a result Gulti and Cave noticed and followed.

I never even implied that Deathsmiles was the first shooting game released on the JP 360. I puchased all of the 360 shooting games, with the exception of the second Cave Shooting Collection, when they were released, so I know better. My entire post was observation and opinion, that's it. But you missed my point. All I was saying was that if Cave never "followed," as you put it, then this thread wouldn't even exist. Like I said, opinion.

[zaphod]

The other reason is that the x360 has a rapid hardware scaler that can output any game to the native resolution of your TV, which reduces lag. that's very important for shmupping.

[Elixir]

It was Senko that took the lead. Microsoft was accepting of G.rev's work, and as a result Gulti and Cave noticed and followed.

I never even implied that Deathsmiles was the first shooting game released on the JP 360. I puchased all of the 360 shooting games, with the exception of the second Cave Shooting Collection, when they were released, so I know better. My entire post was observation and opinion, that's it. But you missed my point. All I was saying was that if Cave never "followed," as you put it, then this thread wouldn't even exist. Like I said, opinion.

This:

The simple answer to this whole thread is Cave. That's it. Certainly, games like Raiden Fighters Aces and Shikigami No Shiro III wouldn't have done it alone. Nor DoDonPachi Daioujou from 5pb, for that matter. It took Cave themselves throwing their weight behind it to carve out that niche. Subsequently, the user base which was established for shooting games on the system made it attractive (and profitable enough) for others, to include Konami, to occupy those same waters.

Doesn't sound like an opinion, but rather a statement. I don't care about opinions. Microsoft gave free devkits to Japanese developers, and supported them in porting arcade titles to the platform. The 360 was also easy to develop for as it uses PC-based architecture, much like various arcade platforms (ie: Taito Type, NAOMI, etc). Excluding Cave's involvement the 360 has over 20 Japanese retail shmup releases, and over 40 digital releases, so your claim of Cave leading others is utterly baseless.

[trap15]

The 360 was also easy to develop for as it uses PC-based architecture, much like various arcade platforms (ie: Taito Type, NAOMI, etc).

??? Not at all. What about the 360 is PC-based? What about NAOMI is PC-based? Type X is the only thing you listed that's remotely PC-based (because it is a PC).

[cave hermit]

I recall reading that Sony designed the PS3 with the cell processor knowing that developing for it was radically different from developing for other consoles: the idea was that since the PS2 was so successful developers would develop for the PS3 first and then not port them to other platforms due to the difficulty in porting from the cell processor to standard hardware.

Needless to say this completely backfired.

Obviously this isn't the sole reason shmups usually ended up on 360 over the PS3, but this certainly provided a reason for shmup devs to choose the 360.

[trap15]

The PS3 was designed as it was for raw power. They gave no care about it being "easy" to program for because the PS2 was complex to develop for as well and sold truckloads. I doubt it was done as a developer-hostile decision (unlike the N64, but that's another story!).

[alamone]

PowerPC != PC

[trap15]

Personally I'm curious how he got NAOMI in that list. Xbox360 at least has some case to be in that list, being mostly DirectX APIs and "PowerPC" CPU architecture (which, as stated, has nothing to do with PCs, but the name might fool you). But NAOMI is totally custom APIs and SuperH-4.

[Cata]

Sony:

"Get your damn 2D games off my nice clean 3D HD lawn"

[Jonathan Ingram]

Sony:

"Get your damn 2D games off my nice clean 3D HD lawn"

A myth that has persisted far longer than it should have.

[Endymion]

There are lots of reasons this happened. Elixir got the history right, from the early days the ball started rolling. What kept it rolling is that 2D shooters like these are a niche, even in Japan. Yeah, they sell well there for the expenditure, but not anything like a Final Fantasy or whatever, and when you think of the consoles available to everyone over there, which one would you say is a niche console? With the answer to this question in mind, it should not be very surprising how so many 2D shooters made it onto this platform.

[system11]

Well it certainly won't happen this time around... The latest PS4/XB1 sales figures from Japan are hilarious, 45000 vs 250 last week.