Fudoh's ode to old display technology

geekmiki · Post by **geekmiki** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:06 am

BazookaBen wrote: Have you checked ebay to see how much the SDI card sells for? Put it up on Ebay with global shipping. Who knows, there may be a studio in Hollywood that needs a replacement. Maybe it could offset your costs a little bit.

Yes I'll do that eventually, but first I want to make sure that I can gather all the pieces to make it work with an RGB setup.

julencin2000 · Post by **julencin2000** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:47 pm

geekmiki wrote:I manged to get a JVC TM-H150CG, only problem is that it has an SDI card and the only RGB/Component input cards I've found (JVC IF-C01COMG) are £150 without shipping which will end up in £200+ with shipping and taxes to Norway.

Am I missing any options to get RGB signals to that monitor without that specific card?

Thank you in advance!

I have that same monitor, out of the box you get composite or s video. You need other card to get RGB inputs.

Do you have another kind of card inserted?

geekmiki · Post by **geekmiki** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:54 pm

julencin2000 wrote: Do you have another kind of card inserted?

Right now I only have an SDI input card - the IF-C01SDG
Which, I guess, doesn't help much for what I want to do...

julencin2000 · Post by **julencin2000** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:33 pm

Mine has not any card inserted, just default inputs.

Afaik you'll need the first one:

geekmiki · Post by **geekmiki** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:18 pm

Yes that's what I wrote in my initial post... I need the IF-C01COMG...
But I was looking for any other possible solution before spitting out £200 on an input card...

julencin2000 · Post by **julencin2000** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:35 pm

I've been watching ebay in search for that RGB input card but I gave up, too expensive. I'll keep the monitor for s video, RGB will go to my PVMs.

Ps: sorry I didn't notice you wrote the exact card model :derp:

Thedissident · Post by **Thedissident** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:08 am

Hi, firstly I'll say that I'm a complete novice regarding broadcast quality CRT's. I have an opportunity to purchase a Sony PVM 20M4E, however it doesn't come with any of the optional SDI input modules. Do I require ANY of the following for the best gaming experience: BKM-101C, BKM-102 or BKM-103. And what about the tuner unit, the TU-1040E, do I need this? Thanks in advance.

Mishrak109 · Post by **Mishrak109** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:34 pm

I finally ordered a PS2 component cable which should be in my possession within a week. I'm hoping it doesn't produce the green screen that the SNES did which would mean there is something wrong with the monitor itself.

I've been able to capture basically flawless images and videos with the PEXHDCAP and component SNES (+1 for Startech), so here's to hoping the monitor just doesn't like the component output from the mod. SCART cables some day perhaps.

Mishrak109 · Post by **Mishrak109** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:03 pm

Thedissident wrote:Hi, firstly I'll say that I'm a complete novice regarding broadcast quality CRT's. I have an opportunity to purchase a Sony PVM 20M4E, however it doesn't come with any of the optional SDI input modules. Do I require ANY of the following for the best gaming experience: BKM-101C, BKM-102 or BKM-103. And what about the tuner unit, the TU-1040E, do I need this? Thanks in advance.

The PVM M4E has RGB/Component and S-Video inputs by default, so you should be good to go. It also has a built in tuner, so that won't be an issue either. It's really the BVM series monitors that are absent those parts (which it needs to function). Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

http://www.bmedia.de/data/uploads/produ ... 1112f1.pdf

Just test what inputs you plan to use before you buy it to make sure everything works.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:23 pm

Thedissident wrote:Hi, firstly I'll say that I'm a complete novice regarding broadcast quality CRT's. I have an opportunity to purchase a Sony PVM 20M4E, however it doesn't come with any of the optional SDI input modules. Do I require ANY of the following for the best gaming experience: BKM-101C, BKM-102 or BKM-103. And what about the tuner unit, the TU-1040E, do I need this? Thanks in advance.

The SDI modules are a very specific sub-group of the input models, and you won't need any SDI connections.

That knocks out: 101C, 102, and the BKM-103 is apparently a "serial remote interface" which you likewise won't need.

What could be useful, if you need a second set of component or RGBs inputs, is something like a BKM-129X. However everybody and their dog wants these, too.

As Mishrak says, the monitor comes with RGB and standard definition component already, so you're good to go in plugging in one system at a time.

Mishrak109 · Post by **Mishrak109** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:31 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote: What could be useful, if you need a second set of component or RGBs inputs, is something like a BKM-129X. However everybody and their dog wants these, too.

Are they really in that much demand by themselves?

Thedissident · Post by **Thedissident** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:01 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote:
Thedissident wrote:Hi, firstly I'll say that I'm a complete novice regarding broadcast quality CRT's. I have an opportunity to purchase a Sony PVM 20M4E, however it doesn't come with any of the optional SDI input modules. Do I require ANY of the following for the best gaming experience: BKM-101C, BKM-102 or BKM-103. And what about the tuner unit, the TU-1040E, do I need this? Thanks in advance.
The SDI modules are a very specific sub-group of the input models, and you won't need any SDI connections.

That knocks out: 101C, 102, and the BKM-103 is apparently a "serial remote interface" which you likewise won't need.

What could be useful, if you need a second set of component or RGBs inputs, is something like a BKM-129X. However everybody and their dog wants these, too.

As Mishrak says, the monitor comes with RGB and standard definition component already, so you're good to go in plugging in one system at a time.

Thanks both of you for your replies. So basically for the PVMM4E, I don't need anything else apart from the appropriate cables and a console obviously? And the same for the BVM. So I definitely don't need a 101C or 103? Aren't they essential audio and visual inputs though? Also do I need a 21D board? I assume a BKM 10R is a must? And if I do want to hook up more than one console at a time, which I will do, I need a BKM-129X? Would I need this for the PVM if I want more inputs aswell? Thanks again.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:04 pm

You do not need SDI.

The PVM and BVM lines don't share input boards, generally. For the BVM series you definitely have to make sure of getting an appropriate input (15KHz analog RGBs for older consoles). Unless you are dealing with newer BVMs (D and A series, i.e. D20 and A32) you shouldn't have to worry about 15KHz or 31KHz, just make sure the input type is regular old analog RGBs - and YPbPr if you want component.

Here's a hint for figuring out what works and what doesn't.
First your checklist:
15KHz (for 480i and 240p)
analog (not digital / serial digital interface)
RGBs
You might also be able to use "component," or YPbPr, aka "Y/R–Y/B–Y or RGB," but this is not RGBs. At the very least you'll need a transcoder to move from RGBs to YPbPr.

Checking the BKM-21d: Do a web search. This Sony eSupport page comes up. Choose "Installation Manual" and you get this PDF file. On page 29 it says:

The BKM-21D is equipped with three input and three
output connectors for serial digital signals, as well as
three input and three output connectors for analog
signals. Using the analog signal input connectors, you
can input one Y/R–Y/B–Y or one RGB signal, or three
analog composite signals. The types of analog
composite signals that may be input vary depending on
the input adaptors installed in other input option slots
(see page 20(E)).

There is also a table showing the actual BVM monitors supported (on the left side of the page). In other words, it supports inputting both SDI and analog signals to a BVM. The SDI part is useless to us, and what about the other part? It shows just three connectors, supporting "Y/R–Y/B–Y or RGB." Component RGB here seems to mean YPbPr, and not the RGBs we need, which would require an extra plug for sync. In other words, this is not what you want for 480i / 240p input. You should be able to make it work but you'll need a transcoder box at the least.

I don't know every last BKM compatibility, unfortunately, but I will say that the BKM-129X is meant for support on PVM or BVM D series monitors, so that should work. But again it does depend on the specific monitor. Scour the various product sheets Sony released if you want details, and of course feel free to ask here if you're uncertain.

Mishrak109 · Post by **Mishrak109** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:12 pm

Thedissident wrote: Thanks both of you for your replies. So basically for the PVMM4E, I don't need anything else apart from the appropriate cables and a console obviously? And the same for the BVM. So I definitely don't need a 101C or 103? Aren't they essential audio and visual inputs though? Also do I need a 21D board? I assume a BKM 10R is a must? And if I do want to hook up more than one console at a time, which I will do, I need a BKM-129X? Would I need this for the PVM if I want more inputs aswell? Thanks again.

PVMs are generally standalone and need nothing additional to function normally. You'd only need the BKM 129X if you wanted an additional input/output.

BVM is the same as far as component/RGB goes. Those generally do NOT have S-Video support (where the PVMs generally do), and you'd need a special part for that. People don't buy BVMs for S-Video though. BVMs also have a modular controller which you need to have, so if it doesn't come with one, you're kinda up a creek till you can get one.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:21 pm

Thing about the BVMs is that you have to check all the input boards provided. These don't seem to have permanently fixed inputs like the PVMs do, so ought to be possible to get a BVM with only SDI inputs, or one which has had the expensive input boards ripped out for resale.

Additionally with a BVM you will have to be sure of buying terminator plugs (should be 75ohm type) for placing on the passthrough ("output") ports below the currently selected inputs.

Thedissident · Post by **Thedissident** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:42 pm

This is all going way over my head

Ok, to be specific, say I want a BVM 20F1E. Apart from ensuring it's in good condition, low hours and has a BKM10R included, is that all I need? I want true RGB, that's why I'm thinking of purchasing one in the first place, what slots do I need specificallly for 15KHz retro gaming bliss? Also, where do I obtain these terminator plugs from, are they not included? Thanks both.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:34 pm

The BVM-20E/F/G came with a RGB/component input board installed by default. That's the board in the rightmost slot. Unless this has been removed due a to a defect, there's no reason why it wouldn't be included. It wasn't optional.

Same for the BVM-D20xx. Only the BVM-A20xx dropped this board and require an additional add-on board to run RGB in the first place.

BNC termination plugs are available on ebay and everywhere else. You should get ones that have a 75 ohm rating. You need 4 of them to terminate the BNC outputs on the standard RGB/component board.

Thedissident · Post by **Thedissident** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:44 am

Fudoh wrote:The BVM-20E/F/G came with a RGB/component input board installed by default. That's the board in the rightmost slot. Unless this has been removed due a to a defect, there's no reason why it wouldn't be included. It wasn't optional.

Same for the BVM-D20xx. Only the BVM-A20xx dropped this board and require an additional add-on board to run RGB in the first place.

BNC termination plugs are available on ebay and everywhere else. You should get ones that have a 75 ohm rating. You need 4 of them to terminate the BNC outputs on the standard RGB/component board.

Thanks for clarifying Fudoh. May I ask you, if given the opportunity, and assuming condition and price are similar, would you opt for a BVM20F1E or a BVM 20E1E and what would be your reasoning?

geekmiki · Post by **geekmiki** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:09 am

Back to my input card problem... I need some advice.

Just as a recap: I have a JVC TM-H150CG that has only S-Video and SDI inputs
The input card is hard to find and expensive (IF-C01COMG).

I've been watching around trying to find a solution and I could get a cheap Kramer FC-7501 YUV to SDI converter.
That means in order to plug in my RGB consoles I would need on top of that an RGB to YUV converter.

So the setup would be to convert RGB->YUV->SDI.

Is that a viable setup quality wise or will all the converting be pointless?

Thanks in advance!

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:14 am

SDI does not support 240p. If you plan on playing systems from 8/16/32 bit generations on your display and have them look their best I see no point in going with SDI. Bite the bullet and buy that RGB input card, or just settle for S-video, since that looks very good, especially on a quality monitor.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:38 pm

Sorry for the not-quite-on-target words earlier!

Thedissident wrote:BVM20F1E or a BVM 20E1E and what would be your reasoning?

Either will give you more sharpness than any retro console needs. G series has 800 TVL, F has 900 TVL, E has 1000 TVL.

TVL ("TV Lines") means that at the center of the screen the monitor can resolve so many individual black and white lines without them blurring together into gray.

A "lowly" 20" PVM usually has 600 or slightly more TVL, and this is already as good or better than most consumer TVs. Small TVs and even BVMs might have far less than 600 TVL but at the 20" range it's nothing to worry about. I'd only worry about TVL if you have a multiformat one and you want to run 480i 3D or higher resolution content on it.

Mishrak109 · Post by **Mishrak109** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:44 pm

Even with measly S-Video, games look gorgeous on my 600TVL PVM 20L2MD. Someday I'll get the SCART cables and see how it really looks.

tacoguy64 · Post by **tacoguy64** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:22 pm

geekmiki wrote:
julencin2000 wrote: Do you have another kind of card inserted?
Right now I only have an SDI input card - the IF-C01SDG
Which, I guess, doesn't help much for what I want to do...

I made the same mistake as well, got one of these JVC monitors with no RGB input card. Looked around on google for a bit but the cheapest i could find was $150 on this UK website.

It still has a vga input but I havent gotten my pc to work on it. Though it could be because the resolution on windows 7 is too high.

mgy1523 · Post by **mgy1523** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:10 am

Mishrak109 wrote:Even with measly S-Video, games look gorgeous on my 600TVL PVM 20L2MD. Someday I'll get the SCART cables and see how it really looks.

I was just thinking that the other day when I played GameCube via S-Video. It looked amazing with great detail as well.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:58 am

tacoguy64 wrote:
geekmiki wrote:
julencin2000 wrote: Do you have another kind of card inserted?
Right now I only have an SDI input card - the IF-C01SDG
Which, I guess, doesn't help much for what I want to do...
I made the same mistake as well, got one of these JVC monitors with no RGB input card. Looked around on google for a bit but the cheapest i could find was $150 on this UK website.

It still has a vga input but I havent gotten my pc to work on it. Though it could be because the resolution on windows 7 is too high.

Vga? I have TM-H150CG with component/rgb card and a TM-H1750CG (no component/rgb), and neither of them have vga input. The only thing that has any semblance of vga appearance is the remote input. The 15" is a recent buy, and considering that it appears I can use the rgb card with the 17" I was very happy to pick it up for AU$50. The 17" was only AU$25.

Must say though, apart from the evident but not obvious dot crawl, I don't notice a massive difference between component and s-video. S-video is very sharp, just not quite as nicely sharp.

tacoguy64 · Post by **tacoguy64** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:40 am

It was probably the remote input. That would explain why I couldn't get my pc to display anything on the monitor. I have the JVC DT-V1710CG 17" Multiformat DTV Monitor and for some reason I thought it had a vga input.

geekmiki · Post by **geekmiki** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:44 am

Anyway, I'm on my way to solving my problem and I ordered an RGB input card... Found a NOS input card for £70 and since I got the monitor for free, I thought it was fair.
I will report back when I have received it and plugged everything in.

Sgt.Wafer · Post by **Sgt.Wafer** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:55 pm

To the people having trouble finding RGB input cards for their JVC monitors. Panasonic sold rebranded monitors that used the same cards but with a Panasonic model number. Try searching for BT-YA702P for the Panasonic RGB card and BT-YA701P if you need the composite/S-Video input card. I own a JVC DT-V1710CG which came empty with no inputs. I bought both Panasonic cards for it and both fit and at least the composite/S-Video card works, I didn't get a chance to try the RGB one yet.

Sacrifus · Post by **Sacrifus** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:57 am

Hi everyone,
I have been using a V402 for my mame cab for the past year and I love it. However I would like to hook up some RGB consoles for some retro gaming. No matter the price, could anyone suggest what I need for the best image quality?
Thanks.

Mishrak109 · Post by **Mishrak109** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:06 am

Ed Oscuro wrote:
Unless somebody comes up with a simple suggestion, I'd try troubleshooting the component input of the PVM by inputing 15KHz component from another device. The PS2 and the original Xbox will do this.

Some camera glare distorts this picture a bit:

Spoiler

Component PS2. Looks absolutely amazing. So at least we know the PVM is working fine. Thank you guys for all your help.

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