Help me get better image quality- S video on an SD CRT, etc.

[nosorrow]

I have, admittedly, limited knowledge when it comes to retro console image quality. Only recently have I begun to move away from composite. First, I had my two Saturn systems hooked via S video to each of my two CRTs and I was pleased with what I saw. Followed an S video PC Engine Duo-R, a couple PS2s that I purchased component cables for, same thing for the Wii. Then I got the GCN component cables and holy hell, it's majestic, even on a 32 inch SD Sony Wega!

Now, I want S video cables for all of my remaining retro consoles - I'm also willing to have them modded if need be (more on that later). I'm not interested in SCART/RGB and the like: only S video (no need to try to convince me otherwise ). Here's a rundown of the systems I want S video for:

2 x Dreamcast
1 x OG PlayStation
1 x N64

But also:

1 x US NES top loader (already modded to make the infamous "jailbars" disappear - is an S video mod even feasible on the top loader?)

1 x US JVC X'Eye (needs to be modded, right? Is it possible?)

1 x US SNES mini (see X'Eye above)

Finally, for the consoles that don't need modding, could you please link me to official brand S video cables and/or reliable 3rd party ones? I'd love to get a list of everything I need for each system.
As for the modding, where could I find the best guy talent-wise (and price-wise; but really, I just want a good clean job where it doesn't even look like the system had work done).

I realize this is a complex/long post. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to help/educate me.

[CkRtech]

I'll hop in first.

2 x Dreamcast, 1 x OG PlayStation, 1 x N64

Native. No problem.

1 x US NES top loader (already modded to make the infamous "jailbars" disappear - is an S video mod even feasible on the top loader?)

Mod it with Tim's NESRGB. In addition to RGB output, it supports S-Video. http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47617

1 x US JVC X'Eye (needs to be modded, right? Is it possible?)

Yes. I believe this uses the same encoder as a Model 1 Genesis. I haven't been inside my X'Eye since 1999/2000.

1 x US SNES mini (see X'Eye above)

S-Video can easily be restored to the US SNES Mini.

[nosorrow]

I'll hop in first.

2 x Dreamcast, 1 x OG PlayStation, 1 x N64

Native. No problem.

So if my TVs are S video ready, I can get the cables, then plug and play? Links? (e.g. online stores, reputable ebay/amazon sellers) Anything to watch out for in particular?

[BazookaBen]

So if my TVs are S video ready, I can get the cables, then plug and play? Links? (e.g. online stores, reputable ebay/amazon sellers) Anything to watch out for in particular?

For dreamcast, get a VGA box. Most of them have an S-video connector.

For PS1 and N64, the Monster brand cables are probably the sturdiest you can find. If you want cheaper, the official cables come up on a occasion and they look perfectly fine. As a matter of a fact, Sony may still be manufacturing the S-video cable because it is compatible with PS3 as well.

Most 3rd party cables are fine too, just make sure you buy from an Amazon or ebay seller with good feedback. Once in a while, cables can come out of China that are assembled improperly (like sending composite video through the s-video line). That's rare though.

[nosorrow]

Do you absolutely need a VGA box to output DC S video? (Just the cables won't do?)

[BazookaBen]

Do you absolutely need a VGA box to output DC S video? (Just the cables won't do?)

No, but it's nice to have in case you ever want to hook it up to an HDTV or HD Monitor. 480p looks way better than 480i on 60fps games. And most of the Dreamcast's library is 60fps.

[nosorrow]

Adding on to my initial post, recommendations on a good quality splitter/switch box highly appreciated too - one that features at least 5 S video ports. There is, surprisingly, not much detailed info on the matter to be found on the Internet.

P.S. I'm thinking of a device in the $100-$150ish range.

[CkRtech]

You can get 8 port, used industrial switches off eBay for a pretty fair price that should be under that budget.

[BazookaBen]

Adding on to my initial post, recommendations on a good quality splitter/switch box highly appreciated too - one that features at least 5 S video ports. There is, surprisingly, not much detailed info on the matter to be found on the Internet.

P.S. I'm thinking of a device in the $100-$150ish range.

If you have trouble finding something, you could always get something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Authority ... 7675.l2557

and use S-video to RCA breakout cables to hook up to the video inputs.

[HydrogLox]

... Then I got the GCN component cables and holy hell, it's majestic, even on a 32 inch SD Sony Wega! ...

... I'm not interested in SCART/RGB and the like: only S video (no need to try to convince me otherwise ).

As long as you have come to that decision with all the facts in front of you - i.e. 15kHz RGB transcodes nicely to component for an SD CRT with a component input. This was a point in this recent topic:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53316

[CkRtech]

I think nosorrow jumped from composite to component for the GC, and that was what made component look so good (rather than S-Video to component).

Personally, I do not think the difference between S-Video and component on a consumer level CRT is worth having to mess with SCART/RGB at all. S-Video also offers a much more affordable switching solution in this case as well, and it looks like nosorrow is going to be running multiple consoles.

[bobrocks95]

I'd disagree in that I saw a very noticeable jump in color vibrancy/saturation, image sharpness, and most noticeably a lot less color bleeding going from S-Video to RGB on my consumer Trinitron.

That said, this thread isn't about me, and S-Video is a much better option for non-enthusiast level game players. Given how common it is on TVs, how much cheaper the cables are, more video switches being available (this point might be iffy, I've never looked for S-Video switches, though I've seen some), and not needing to buy a transcoder, S-Video is cheaper and easier to work with in the US, so it's a good middle ground option.

[CkRtech]

I'd disagree in that I saw a very noticeable jump in color vibrancy/saturation, image sharpness, and most noticeably a lot less color bleeding going from S-Video to RGB on my consumer Trinitron.

RGB or component?

[Josh128]

I think nosorrow jumped from composite to component for the GC, and that was what made component look so good (rather than S-Video to component).

Personally, I do not think the difference between S-Video and component on a consumer level CRT is worth having to mess with SCART/RGB at all. S-Video also offers a much more affordable switching solution in this case as well, and it looks like nosorrow is going to be running multiple consoles.

In cases like the N64 or other systems where S-Video is present natively, I agree. In the case of the GC, where the YUV cables cost $200, I agree as well. The color is the only real difference. i just posted several (not so great, admittedly) shots of SVideo vs. Component, vs. Composite on GC on my Sony Trinitron-- and you can clearly see the sharpness of SVideo is identical with Component. I think my S-Video and composite results are tainted by the fact I had composite connected at the same time-- I think it reduced/halved my signal level/brightness on those inputs, because when connecting one at a time, I did not see such drastic light/dark differences. Even when they were all connected, in person, the differences were not as apparent as what the camera showed. On the same thread I show the difference on SNES also. Again, other than smoother, richer color, not a huge difference...

RGB /Component is def. better, but the real gulf of difference is in composite to S-Video, not S-Video to RGB/Component.

[nosorrow]

I think nosorrow jumped from composite to component for the GC, and that was what made component look so good (rather than S-Video to component).

Personally, I do not think the difference between S-Video and component on a consumer level CRT is worth having to mess with SCART/RGB at all. S-Video also offers a much more affordable switching solution in this case as well, and it looks like nosorrow is going to be running multiple consoles.

Indeed, I jumped from composite to component for the GC - I had always disliked the "out of focus" image I got from the system and decided to go for component (instead of S video) since I use a 3-port component switchbox for the PS2, Wii and now GC. This switch box is directly connected to my SD Wega.

On that same Wega, I currently have hooked up to another switchbox the following (all in composite): JVC X'Eye, Japanese PS1 (original model), top loading NES, SNES mini and Dreamcast. I also have a PC Engine Duo-R and a Saturn hooked to the tv through a "Y splitter" - both are S video.

Every system that I listed is playable without having to switch cables and whatnot - all are plugged and ready to go. Now, what I'm looking for at the moment is a setup that would allow me to have all these hooked up at the same time, but where I could upgrade to S video for the PS1, N64 and Dreamcast (for the time being I would keep composite for the X'Eye, NES and SNES). So a composite/component/S video switch box (or 2) is what I'm looking for. (If that helps, I could try to put up some pictures of my current setup as it is when I get back from work tonight.)

I realize this is a somewhat convoluted a response. Please feel free to ask any questions.

[neorichieb1971]

I used to have an official Sega Saturn svideo cable but I've lost it.

Anyone have one to sell?

Sorry to hi-jack the thread etc.

[creamygarlicdip]

For Dreamcast, watch out for Retrobit s-video cables, I got some of these last week and i was puzzled by the poor image quality, about the same as composite.

I went online and read some amazon reviews that stated people having the same issue. They were of the opinion that the cables simply route the composite signal through the s-video cable, i don't know if thats true but i know they looked lousy.

So im purchasing some 3rd party s-video cables for dreamcast by a company called interact that were made when the dreamcast was still in production, haven't gotten them yet but i think they should be fine.

Generally speaking, official s-video cables always look great, sometimes they can be pricey if they're hard to find. I used to have monster s-video cables on my playstation 2 they looked fabulous on a CRT SDTV 480i.

[Fudoh]

They were of the opinion that the cables simply route the composite signal through the s-video cable, i don't know if thats true but i know they looked lousy.

many cheap s-video cables use the composite video signal for luma (instead of a true, clean luma signal). Combine this with chroma and it's a little bit better than composite, but will still show many artefacts know from pure composite.

[Xan]

Like in this video, I suppose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwErFV9awn4

I guess the "savings" for the manufacturer come from being able to do composite and S-Video with 2 pins instead of 3, but still seems a really stupid idea...

[Fudoh]

Like in this video, I suppose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwErFV9awn4

yes, that's a bad one. The pattern in the red letters in the logo would be completely gone with a proper s-video cable.

[bobrocks95]

I'd disagree in that I saw a very noticeable jump in color vibrancy/saturation, image sharpness, and most noticeably a lot less color bleeding going from S-Video to RGB on my consumer Trinitron.

RGB or component?

Whoops, component transcoded from RGB, my bad. From what I understand it's just a color space conversion, but there's a very slight loss in quality that's incredibly difficult to notice.

[Mishrak109]

For the SNES S-Video, the Monster cable is actually very good. It's expensive, so shop around and maybe you can pick one up for a reasonable price, but in case you can't find one, the Official Nintendo one is also very good and is usually a bit more affordable.

It took me a few nuked $15 3rd party cables before I finally acquired my Monster cable and the image quality jump was significant. I just wish they weren't so expensive.

[nosorrow]

Thanks for the replies so far!

Still interested in suggestions regarding a reliable switchbox. Would prefer buying new. (links welcomed)

P.S. What do you guys use as far as switch/splitter boxes are concerned? Or do you rather manually hook up/unhook consoles every time you feel like playing?

[CkRtech]

Although I am not a fan of ebay links in a message forum thread (terrible for posterity since they expire):

This is what I use for my component switching - an Audio Authority 1154A. 4 input/1 output. It might be a bit overkill, but it also takes digital audio via rca and optical, is auto-switching, and is of pretty high quality. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Authority ... 25a1994f7c I know that doesn't meet your "new" request, and it sure seems expensive vs. what I paid 10 years ago. On the flip side, you could buy a cheaper Dynex for $10 and roll the dice. The AA 1154A is the only one I have used and therefore the only one I can recommend.

For S-Video, you can get a used selector on ebay for a fair price. S-Video stands between the T-Rex and Brontosaurus in museums across the globe, so you can pick up professional stuff relatively cheap. That is what I did. Of course, you did say that you prefer new. I am not sure that you will find an S-Video switch with an adequate number of inputs. When I looked years ago, I wanted quite a few inputs. Everything I saw at the sub-$100 level was either 4 or 5 inputs. You want at least 7 (from your initial post). I suppose you could purchase 2 4x1 units and daisy chain, but yuck...

My S-Video switch is an 8 port switch by Ocean Matrix. It is still integrated into my setup for my Atari consoles, and has been rock solid.

[nosorrow]

Thanks to your sensible post, "brand new" is not mandatory anymore.

For sure, I would like to have the Duo, Saturn, PS1, N64 and DC hooked through S video since it is native (no modding necessary) - so that makes 5 ports. I could live with the NES, SNES and Genesis in composite: after all, this is what I grew up with and never noticed a thing (says the guy who tries to convince himself ).

So, a 5 port S video switcher + a 3 port component switcher (already have that one covered) + a composite switchbox (have that too): that should do the trick, right?

[bobrocks95]

Thanks for the replies so far!

Still interested in suggestions regarding a reliable switchbox. Would prefer buying new. (links welcomed)

P.S. What do you guys use as far as switch/splitter boxes are concerned? Or do you rather manually hook up/unhook consoles every time you feel like playing?

I just discovered that my Pelican System Selector Pro is adding ghosting to the video signal whenever audio is connected into it, or I would have recommended it. I bought it used a couple years ago and one of the inputs didn't work, but other than that it was fine. I'm sure I would have noticed the ghosting before since it's pretty bad, so I think it's safe to assume that this was a component failure of some kind and hasn't always been there. Right now I'm using it for video and switching the audio connection every time I change the input, which kind of defeats the purpose.

I'm looking into other switches right now, I'll let you know if I get one I'd recommend. I'm also curious to hear people's suggestions. Audio Authority would be a nice brand to get, but I don't like that the one CkRtech posted has the audio inputs separated from the video... Fine for optical since it's run in a separate cable anyway, but it'd get a little messy with multiple analog inputs in regular 5-plug cords.

[Mishrak109]

Thanks for the replies so far!

Still interested in suggestions regarding a reliable switchbox. Would prefer buying new. (links welcomed)

P.S. What do you guys use as far as switch/splitter boxes are concerned? Or do you rather manually hook up/unhook consoles every time you feel like playing?

I use a powered S-Video splitter to distribute the signal from one console to other sources (capture card, monitor). However I do have to swap out the cables manually if I want to change consoles.

http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Electronics ... B0009QZPO6

[BazookaBen]

I could live with the NES, SNES and Genesis in composite: after all, this is what I grew up with and never noticed a thing (says the guy who tries to convince himself ).

Buy a couple scart cables and a SCART>YUV converter. If you're willing to spend $150 on a new s-video switcher in 2015, you shouldn't be playing your SNES and Genesis in composite. You'll thank me later.

[bobrocks95]

Although I am not a fan of ebay links in a message forum thread (terrible for posterity since they expire):

This is what I use for my component switching - an Audio Authority 1154A. 4 input/1 output. It might be a bit overkill, but it also takes digital audio via rca and optical, is auto-switching, and is of pretty high quality. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Authority ... 25a1994f7c I know that doesn't meet your "new" request, and it sure seems expensive vs. what I paid 10 years ago. On the flip side, you could buy a cheaper Dynex for $10 and roll the dice. The AA 1154A is the only one I have used and therefore the only one I can recommend.

For S-Video, you can get a used selector on ebay for a fair price. S-Video stands between the T-Rex and Brontosaurus in museums across the globe, so you can pick up professional stuff relatively cheap. That is what I did. Of course, you did say that you prefer new. I am not sure that you will find an S-Video switch with an adequate number of inputs. When I looked years ago, I wanted quite a few inputs. Everything I saw at the sub-$100 level was either 4 or 5 inputs. You want at least 7 (from your initial post). I suppose you could purchase 2 4x1 units and daisy chain, but yuck...

My S-Video switch is an 8 port switch by Ocean Matrix. It is still integrated into my setup for my Atari consoles, and has been rock solid.

I see another 1154A on ebay that doesn't have the power adapter. Would you mind giving me the amperage on it if you've got it handy, and confirming that it's 12V DC center pin negative? The more I look the more it seems like the best option...

[CkRtech]

I see another 1154A on ebay that doesn't have the power adapter. Would you mind giving me the amperage on it if you've got it handy, and confirming that it's 12V DC center pin negative? The more I look the more it seems like the best option...

Sure.