Wii N64 VC 240p opinions?

[Akiteru]

Hi,

I've been looking into this for a bit and I'm wondering what route I should take.
I want to process the Wii's 480-line (progressive or interlaced) output for N64 VC and get 240p for use on a PVM and to upscale through a Framemeister for streaming/recording.
My main reason for wanting to do this is reading about the N64's poor RGB output and still wanting to have a 240p look, as N64 games should.

I've been reading up on many Extron devices such as the Emotia, VSC series and RGB interfaces.
A common route for 480p to 240p scan conversion seems to be either an Emotia to do the entire job, or a VSC and RGB interface combo to do 480p to 480i then 480i to 240p respectively.
However, the Wii already outputs 480i so I'm not sure if converting 480p back down to 480i would have any benefit.
Also, the Wii outputs video through component, while these devices seem to be designed for VGA input only.

I was just wondering if this has been done before/is it worth it, and if it is, what would be the best way to go about it?

Thanks!

[blizzz]

What did you read about the N64's RGB quality? In my opinion it looks great if the console was modded correctly. The picture is sharp and the colors are fine.

[Akiteru]

What did you read about the N64's RGB quality? In my opinion it looks great if the console was modded correctly. The picture is sharp and the colors are fine.

My main reference is phonedork's video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmVE-S8L774
Maybe that's just his opinion, but it just didn't seem appealing based on his explaination of the filter the N64 seems to have.

Would you recommend just going for N64 RGB rather than messing with the whole Wii setup?

[SGGG2]

I'd just use a real N64; it's less hassle and the Wii uses a terrible blur filter on those (N64) virtual console titles. RetroRGB sells an N64 amp. http://retrorgb.com/store.html

[blizzz]

I'm using a modded N64 on a consumer CRT, looks great. Yes, the N64 uses a very primitive form of anti-aliasing, but that's just how it is. On the Wii you only have a small selection of games and the VC games don't look sharp at 480p. I also prefer the original N64 pad.

[BazookaBen]

I've been looking into this for a bit and I'm wondering what route I should take.
I want to process the Wii's 480-line (progressive or interlaced) output for N64 VC and get 240p for use on a PVM and to upscale through a Framemeister for streaming/recording.
M

So, for streaming, you want to downscale it, then upscale it again?

Let me suggest something better. Split the video path right after the Wii, one going to your PVM, the other your framemeister. Set your Framemeister to 480p, that way your capture card gets a pristine, unscaled image. Then you can upscale the actuall video file for stuff like youtube. Scaling it beforehand just adds unwanted noise.

But downscaling, then upscaling, before it even hits your capture card is a little ridiculous.

[Akiteru]

So, for streaming, you want to downscale it, then upscale it again?

Let me suggest something better. Split the video path right after the Wii, one going to your PVM, the other your framemeister. Set your Framemeister to 480p, that way your capture card gets a pristine, unscaled image. Then you can upscale the actuall video file for stuff like youtube. Scaling it beforehand just adds unwanted noise.

But downscaling, then upscaling, before it even hits your capture card is a little ridiculous.

One of the reasons why I was considering this was because the PVM doesn't support 480p. I also wanted to simulate a 240p picture, though it'd probably be much wiser to get a real 240p image from a real N64 rather than bothering with this, haha.

Thanks for the replies.

[BazookaBen]

One of the reasons why I was considering this was because the PVM doesn't support 480p. I also wanted to simulate a 240p picture, though it'd probably be much wiser to get a real 240p image from a real N64 rather than bothering with this, haha.

You're missing the point. Why downscale the image before you upscale with the framemeister? It's not going to have scanlines or anything. Framemeisters add scanlines LATER, they don't read them from a 240p video signal. Scanlines aren't actually in a 240p signal, they're just a result of how CRT's work. Some CRT's don't even show scan lines because the scanning beam is so wide.

And you would split the signal from your Wii, one side going to your Emotia and PVM, the other to your Framemeister and capture card. That way you could avoid muddying up your signal going to the stream.

[mattbox]

One of the reasons why I was considering this was because the PVM doesn't support 480p. I also wanted to simulate a 240p picture, though it'd probably be much wiser to get a real 240p image from a real N64 rather than bothering with this, haha.

You're missing the point. Why downscale the image before you upscale with the framemeister? It's not going to have scanlines or anything. Framemeisters add scanlines LATER, they don't read them from a 240p video signal. Scanlines aren't actually in a 240p signal, they're just a result of how CRT's work. Some CRT's don't even show scan lines because the scanning beam is so wide.

And you would split the signal from your Wii, one side going to your Emotia and PVM, the other to your Framemeister and capture card. That way you could avoid muddying up your signal going to the stream.

I think the reasoning he is getting at is that N64 games were originally in 240p so he wants to get it back to the "true" resolution before doing upscaling.

And just as a tip, I would suggest not adding in scanlines to a recording/streaming video. The encoding on sites will screw them up for anyone who isn't watching at the same resolution and frame ratio as the source and make them either really big distracting or uneven.

I think the r eason

[BazookaBen]

I think the reasoning he is getting at is that N64 games were originally in 240p so he wants to get it back to the "true" resolution before doing upscaling.

But that is pointless because after you downscale it, the framemeister is going to upscale it to at least 480p anyway. So it will never be in 240p. Besides, N64 games on the Wii are actually running at a higher resolution, somewhere around 640 lines horizontally, and changing that to 240p via an Emotia gives you 640x240, which means tall, rectangular pixels. You're still not getting the original look. It will just look more strange.

[mattbox]

But that is pointless because after you downscale it, the framemeister is going to upscale it to at least 480p anyway. So it will never be in 240p. Besides, N64 games on the Wii are actually running at a higher resolution, somewhere around 640 lines horizontally, and changing that to 240p via an Emotia gives you 640x240, which means tall, rectangular pixels. You're still not getting the original look. It will just look more strange.

That's what I was thinking. You'd pretty much just muddied the recorded signal. Googling around I saw some options to force 240p for VC, it doesn't work for all games but if you could do that it would greatly simplify the chain, simply split the signal for the framemeister and the monitor. I don't know much about downscalers but it seems your option seems the best. Me personally I'd just watch the video coming out of the framemeister when recording/streaming, A decent capture card should have a zero-lag passthrough for that.

[SGGG2]

I'm pretty sure there's no 240p mode for N64 VC titles.

[Einzelherz]

I'm pretty sure there's no 240p mode for N64 VC titles.

My Yoshi's Story disagrees.

[Charleaux330]

I can vouch for phonedorks comments in his video. I have the 14n6u and the N64 looks good on it. If Nintendo didn't put that shit filter on all those games it would look so much better. It's like looking through window that has fog on it.