Screaming Eagles Fundraising Campaign

[AManiacalGameDev]

Indie game developer, A Maniacal Game, has been developing it's second project, a top-down bullet hell shooter that encompasses everything that a shmup fan would enjoy with our own innovative twist. All standard features include tough as nails action, flashy effects, unique character designs and massive end level bosses. Our addition to the genre is a four player co-operative mode over a largely expanded map design to avoid player confusion and expand exploration. We have a good team that have worked on their own time to bring this project to completion but we need the public's help in meeting our goal. We'll continue operating as we are with all intentions to release this game next summer, complete without any errors or bugs, we just need a little financial support to get us there. Any help is appreciated and of course you'll have the chance to grab additional gear and extras based on your donation. Help us realize our goal of an incredibly difficult game that looks fantastic.

http://igg.me/at/SEshmupfund/x/9544810

[KennyMan666]

Flexible funding. Of course it's flexible funding.

[Lord Satori]

That music seems to be attempting to set the mood of the game on it's own.

[Cagar]

"All standard features include tough as nails action, flashy effects, unique character designs and massive end level bosses. "

Literally none of that was shown in the trailer.

[emphatic]

everything that a shmup fan would enjoy

four player co-operative mode

GTFO.

[gray117]

Kind of cute - but you shouldn't be asking for money on the basis that you're done with pre-production, because you're not.

There's no bullet hell pattern examples, no clear multiplayer examples (online/local?), presume pc but no platform(s) stated, no open world mechanic, and aesthetically it is all over the shop.

... imho you'd be better off asking for money to fund pre-production with some key art and game designs - neither of which are really evidenced so far ... or come back to funding when you have these.

[AManiacalGameDev]

The video is a proof of concept video, not gameplay trailer. We're working on that, we're having some optimization problems and memory leaks, once those issues are resolved we'll post a true gameplay trailer that properly shows the game to wet the appetite. We are out of pre-production, the production phase is just a long process, we're not doing this for a living, we're all working on this on our own times. We're not asking for funds to work on this full time, just enough to get us through our primary financial needs. Our intention is to bring it out on PC, online multiplayer, pitching it for PS4 as well. We still have a year and a half of production scheduled and every week we make progress.

[Lord Satori]

If you're doing this on your own time, you don't need anyone's money.

[Lilium]

once those issues are resolved we'll post a true gameplay trailer that properly shows the game to wet the appetite.

Very well, guess we'll all just stay our wallets until then

[AManiacalGameDev]

If you're doing this on your own time, you don't need anyone's money.

If you knew anything about California state law, you'd know that's not the case. Sure we could go a marketing route, hire a PR firm to better help us get the backers we need to pay for taxes and license fees, but we wanted to get genuine backers that want to play our final game, that would actually be interested in trying something new and never been attempted.

[/quote]Very well, guess we'll all just stay our wallets until then [/quote]

No faith?

[Lilium]

No faith.

[AManiacalGameDev]

No faith.

Well we're not exactly asking you to purchase a game for $60 that's completely broken, those guys get a lot more faith than Indies unfortunately. We're not offering early access because that system is broken and unfair for the gamers. I'm shooting it to you straight and honest, we will bring out a unique project with our own innovative spin on the genre, it will be complete. We want people to want to play it, and if you can't afford to donate a $1 we're not going to be mad.

[Lilium]

What you are talking about is not the same. When a game developer puts out a game for 60 dollars, I can do research and read reviews submitted by other people, perhabs even names that I trust. I don't just trust most developers without having some unaffiliated party support that the game is actually quality.

What you're doing here is apparently saying that purchasing a game, that's apparently completely broken, is a leap of faith while supporting a fundraiser for something we barely can even see a glimpse of is not? I don't think so.

Besides... really. Faith? Are we gonna play that one? I don't even know who you are and what you're showing us right now doesn't match up to the description you've put forth for the game. You really shouldn't be asking people to chip into your flexible funding campaign before you've got something a bit more substantial than "right now it might not look like anything special but with YOUR funding guys, it'll be something most spectacular and fantastic. promise. Have faith"

That's a bit more of a tall order than asking 60 dollars for a title that the consumer has numerous ways to research and make an informed decision about.

[AManiacalGameDev]

What you are talking about is not the same. When a game developer puts out a game for 60 dollars, I can do research and read reviews submitted by other people, perhabs even names that I trust. I don't just trust most developers without having some unaffiliated party support that the game is actually quality.

What you're doing here is apparently saying that purchasing a game, that's apparently completely broken, is a leap of faith while supporting a fundraiser for something we barely can even see a glimpse of is not? I don't think so.

Besides... really. Faith? Are we gonna play that one? I don't even know who you are and what you're showing us right now doesn't match up to the description you've put forth for the game. You really shouldn't be asking people to chip into your flexible funding campaign before you've got something a bit more substantial than "right now it might not look like anything special but with YOUR funding guys, it'll be something most spectacular and fantastic. promise. Have faith"

That's a bit more of a tall order than asking 60 dollars for a title that the consumer has numerous ways to research and make an informed decision about.

Understandable, then we'll strive to get our fixes done and release that well sought after gameplay trailer to prove our intentions. We weren't blind when we saw the failings of that and asking for money, but we are on a clock and had to start sooner than later. We hope with the trailer release you'll view the game with more open eyes and a more positive response.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

No faith?

None whatsoever. We've seen plenty of modern efforts at shmups that have been disasters, even with budgets. Just because you have money doesn't mean you know what makes a shmup work well.

4 player coop is an interesting idea, but very few shmups have taken the idea seriously. The only shmups I can think of with 4 player are Giga Wing 2, Score Rush and Decimation X3. All good games, but it's hard to get shmup players interested in a multiplayer experience; we're so used to it being a solo affair.

The trailer is also awful. Like, worse than most doujin games awful. The only ingame movement shown is around 1:29 and there's no bullets fired whatsoever. Immediately after that the game lists a laundry lists of promises like "bullet hell". Lots of promises, not much delivery. Not a good sign.

How is this open world concept supposed to work? Vertical shmups generally have very fixed pacing in order to deliver what is supposed to be a very precise, planned experience of enemy appearances. Is this supposed to play more like Zone 66?

As a company to actually release a full project, we stand out among millions of other developers that have failed. We’ve learned from our past mistakes more than we ever could from our accomplishments and feel prepared to fulfill the challenges that this project presents.

I don't understand; are you saying you've already released a full, finished project? What past mistakes are you referring to?

[AManiacalGameDev]

[/quote] I don't understand; are you saying you've already released a full, finished project? What past mistakes are you referring to?[/quote]

Our first released game, Maniacal Mouth, was done while we were still in school, it was released last March for PC and prepped for mobile. It didn't have any bugs when we shipped it but then again it wasn't as hard as the game we're working on now. As for hardships and mistakes, I could go into everything or you could read the featured blog on Gamasutra about it: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Jonathan ... s_Hard.php

The open world concept and how it's designed to work; the pacing is fixed over the whole map, just like a normal everyday top-down shooter, but the dead space on the left and right side of the screen isn't a normal boundary, it extends outward to allow the player to explore the map, evade incoming fire, find hidden secrets, etc. To avoid memory issues, each section of the map over the x-axis has a pooling spawn box which only activates when a player camera comes within it's proximity. I got the idea to do this from watching a four player top down shooter that came out while I was in school, I wish I could remember the name of it, but the problem I saw was of player confusion, with all the madness that was on screen and four characters as well, players lost sight as to whom they were controlling and who was taking damage. So I thought, why not extend the playing field. It's an interesting concept in theory, and has proven to be difficult to realize. We'll make sure to showcase this feature in our gameplay trailer.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

extends outward to allow the player to explore the map

Normal vertical shmups already have a bit of horizontal extra space that scrolls onscreen when you move to the edges to add the feeling of having more manuvering space. This just sounds like you're making a vert with extra wide playing fields. Okay, I guess, but I don't know how well that will work, especially given the best multiplayer shmups generally avoid having the playing field move around too much (it's disorienting).

Our first released game, Maniacal Mouth

You mean this?

http://www.amaniacalgame.com/maniacal-mouth/



If I were a professional game developer, or I worked for a game development studio, I would be absolutely, completely mortified to have something so... bad associated with my company. It's just so atrociously bad, I can't emphasize how accurately bad it looks. There are no words other than "bad" that can describe this. It's not even so bad it's funny, like some kusoges, it's just bad. If I wanted to be taken seriously this would be the sort of thing I would absolutely delete all traces of and remove any and all associations with myself; I would never, ever want someone to know I made this and would never include it in my portfolio as a game dev.

From your professional whine-fest:

I don't know if anybody really knows this but making games in the Indie world is hard.

This might come as a startling revelation: nobody is going to want to buy your indie games if everything you make is a piece of fucking shit. The issue here is not whether or not being an indie dev is hard; no matter how hard you work and no matter how hard you hype up future projects on your website, the stuff you have produced so far clearly looks bad from an objective development standpoint, and the fact that you seem unaware of this only compounds the problem.

If it makes you feel any better, the comments on your Steam Greenlight (hahaha what the fuck you seriously submitted that) were amusing, so your game wasn't a complete waste of everyone's time:

Geez this is like a crappy flash game on some crappy website.

Please stop making that game. Videogamers have already a bad reputation...

Pretty sure I played a game exactly like this before, maybe on Windows 3.1

Add decals to teeth for questionable amounts of money. No thanks.

I consider this game some sort of misanthropic joke

This game seems more like a troll on the entire greenlighting community, rather than an actual game. But seriously, what marketing formula did you use when designing this game? I think it was something like this: grotesque+cringeworthy+vomit inducing+???=PROFIT!!

And again from your gigantic post about how being an indie dev is sooo hard:

I refer back to my military analogies a lot because I spent a large portion of my life in the military. It may surprise you but leading a team in this industry is very similar to leading a squad of troops into combat

If you seriously think leading a team of geeky game developers is like a military platoon being led into combat, I can guarantee you are absolutely the worst kind of manager there is. From the sound of it, this doesn't even sound like a professional company, these are just some friends who have real jobs elsewhere you roped into doing this as some kind of hobby/side project and allow you to pretend you have a development studio.

If you don't pay their bills, they're not your employees and you don't have a real game development company. Professional companies pay wages/salaries. Full stop, no exceptions.

[AManiacalGameDev]

I was under the impression that flame wars were not allowed in this forum, I can take criticism, and I've heard everything about our first release, (as you've clearly pointed out on the greenlight page). I get it you don't get the joke behind it, some people did, but we knew not everyone would. It's about getting better in the craft, do you really think that every game that developers have released has been incredible, that was our first, it wasn't the best we could do, we are trying to be better. Hence learning from our mistakes. Exactly what's your problem? Do you think if someone isn't immediately successful on something they should just give up, maybe you're use to thinking that way, but I'm not, I'm going to strive and work to be better at this, to release quality projects, regardless what the critics may say.

[trap15]

Become a decent game developer, then ask people for money.

[AManiacalGameDev]

Become a decent game developer, then ask people for money.

If I was a decent game developer I'd be getting paid to do this and wouldn't have to ask people for money.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

If I was a decent game developer I'd be getting paid to do this and wouldn't have to ask people for money.

Most good game developers started out with development as a hobby or had good school projects that jumpstarted their game dev as a career. Many good developers have released good games on their own via indie channels and found funding for them, whether it's crowdfunding via a solid Kickstarter page, getting initial attention via a flash game only to release a commercial game afterwards (Alien Hominid, Monster's Den: Book of Dread, Binding of Isaac), or organizing their own release with a PayPal account and solid advertising. Or, finding a publisher to help release a game you've developed to a wide market (Crimzon Clover).

The difference between them and you is simple: quality. You literally have no product to sell whatsoever. You have produced nothing of value, nothing that people are actually interested in playing or paying for, and you have not shown that you have the capability or production values to even produce such a game, hence the totally apathetic response to your crowdfunding.

Exactly what's your problem?

Your complete and utter lack of self-awareness.

[Bananamatic]

Awesome pics. Great size. Look thick. Solid. Tight. Keep us all posted on your continued progress with any new progress pics or vid clips. Show us what you got man. Wanna see how freakin' huge, solid, thick and tight you can get. Thanks for the motivation.

[gray117]

These are the kind of reactions you get when you make too much out of too little and ask people for money.

Don't be disheartened but do think more carefully about what you present and how you present yourself.

The honset truth is that you're a fledgling developer and you need some money to help bouy confidence in a new game.

Publicly developing another concept (your third game) on the side does not look good and certainly splits priorities. Trumpeting your first school project game - no matter how personally important it was to you is a massive mistake - only do this once you have third party acclaim. Making crappy statements about leadership and likening anything to military service should be reserved for political grandstanding and crappy college applications.

Never claim you're out of preproduction until you can illustrate your key concepts either in a vertical slice, or some practical gameplay example albeit 'white boxed' (supported by some final quality visuals even if they are mocks to give the project an identity). Consider sometimes showing less than more - your post here which started to help clarify what open world meant to you did more than your whole video. By the way I'd be tempted to change that description to 'roaming' levels or something... Open world just won't translate well to those used to attaching that to say an rpg...

If you are doing this part time just say so - be honest. It's impossible with such a meager budget needs that you're doing this full time and it just looks like you're attempting to skirt around the issue of commitment and wherw exactly such a small budget is going - if you need a hand to pay for some unity licenses etc but you're covering all your other costs - then say so - be specific. You're indie, be upfront about such things and engage with your backers. Make them relate. Don't try and make out you're making leaps and bounds until you really are. Otherwise you put people's backs up.

Best of luck!

[Lord Satori]

Awesome pics. Great size. Look thick. Solid. Tight. Keep us all posted on your continued progress with any new progress pics or vid clips. Show us what you got man. Wanna see how freakin' huge, solid, thick and tight you can get. Thanks for the motivation.

Never in my entire life have I read a post that's so easy to take out of context.

[Ixmucane2]

I was under the impression that flame wars were not allowed in this forum, I can take criticism, and I've heard everything about our first release...

It isn't a flame war, it's educative spanking done for your own good. Rejecting good advice is a sign you need more and harder spanking.

You'll notice the gradual progression from explicit but nice statements that a merely misguided person would understand (e.g. "Literally none of that was shown in the trailer" or "If you're doing this on your own time, you don't need anyone's money") to harsh language expressing the same concepts (e.g. "nobody is going to want to buy your indie games if everything you make is a piece of fucking shit"): it's because everybody wants to help you by penetrating your shell of wrong attitudes.

I'm afraid this discussion is heading for the typical bad ending in which you learn nothing and everybody else stops caring for you., but there is still hope.

[Blackbird]

Looking at the footage presented in the video, I think you are attempting to do fundraising a bit too early.

There are enemy craft that disappear for no reason. The movement looks glitchy and poorly animated. The player craft looks visibly sluggish and difficult to control. The game is clearly in a pre-alpha state, and showing it this early in development doesn't do a lot to persuade potential backers that the end product is going to be amazing and worth backing.

If you look at other successful crowdfunding campaigns, you'll see that the vast majority of them have at least a portion of the game in a very polished, presentable state. This is called a "vertical slice" where you basically take a very small section of your game and make that section appear to be complete, so that it serves as an example of what the final game will be like. Some developers even go as far as bringing the whole game to a "beta" level of completion before presenting the game to the public.

Examples:
Blue Revolver (Not technically crowdfunded, but it passed Steam Greenlight so I think that counts)
Starr Mazer

As you can see, these games were well into development before being revealed, because waiting to show a more polished game creates a much better initial impression for your potential backers.

[n0rtygames]

Become a decent game developer, then ask people for money.

If I was a decent game developer I'd be getting paid to do this and wouldn't have to ask people for money.

Ah man, come on. I understand why people are getting antsy here but I need to hone in on this point.

I am a professional game developer, I make games every day for a living and it pays for my rent, food, kids, bills, everything. I'm also not the only one here! There are actually a lot of full time developers who lurk in these parts and we all have one thing in common - yes, we make money from games... we were not born as gamedevs however - we had to learn. My own shmup project was something I was just working away on, on my own without ever having advertised it on this forum. One day, I guess because I held a private little website somewhere a fine frenchman named Sined stumbled across it and the rest just kinda snowballed from there. I stopped lurking here under another alias, made this account and then the rest is just kinda a weird blur now.

You have to understand that when a lot of us were making games (not necessarily great games either!) as a hobby, we did not have things like Kickstarter around to launch us in to success. In fact the very idea that you could make money off games seemed so crazy that we just did it for shits and giggles. We did it for one simple reason - we wanted to be like our heroes. The people before us who had made great games, we wanted to learn their secrets and be just as good as them.

Ask yourself this, if the campaign fails - are you just going to give up on your game? Are you going to go back to the drawing board and look for another idea that people will throw money at? What happens to all your work so far when you don't get paid? Are you going to abandon it, or keep working on it because this is a game that you genuinely want to see come to life?

When you're in your room at night with 4 hours to spare and you have nothing better to do with your time, there's no magic dollar bills coming through your telephone line. What are you gonna do? Are we supposed to pay you to stop playing games and write some code?

Seriously, best thing you could do now would be to cool off and reflect on this. If you return here with a different attitude, you might be surprised to find you get a totally different reaction. We don't owe you any money man. Nobody paid us to go through the exact process you're going through now.

I don't want to discourage you and I think you should finish your game even if its not to the tastes of this forum. Make it because its a game you want to make.

But yes, we probably do need to stop shitting on every single developer who turns up here... on that, you may be right. But I'm afraid it's sort of a weird time honored tradition here. First, you make a game, then you post a game, everyone tells you its shit and then you either go away or make another game. I dunno, it's just how we do things round here.

Remember : Every game can be improved.

[Shmuppet]

I viewed the IGG video. My first question was "What exactly am I backing, here?"

My question wasn't answered in the entire video!

*reads the boring text*

"Open World Shmup"? What kind of game is THIS gonna be?

I don't know. And that's a bad thing IMHO!

If a developer tries to make a game so original that no one's ever seen it before, that game will most likely be very bad. Because no one will have ANY idea how to make this totally original, unseen game good. There's no other game like it out there that set any standards for how good the game should be. There's no one to learn from.

With the $5k goal and no captivating gameplay or rewards, I decided it was best NOT to back this um, project. It has way too much in common with other crowdfunding campaigns that have failed, like not telling anyone what the game actually is and what it's about within the first 20 seconds of the video.

It certainly has some nice art assets, but I don't know what the heck AManiacalGameDev is trying to make! All I saw was an "enemy test". No bang bang, no explosions. I don't wanna pay for an enemy test, just to get a bunch of stickers.