Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Ed Oscuro]

Man, we need a sticky about this.

I reset the BVM to factory defaults because the geometry was all wack

Don't be hasty if you get those settings. Shotgun entering somebody else's adjustments is another terrible idea. Somebody else's settings, pre- or post- factory, may be farther from what you need than your factory settings. You need to adjust things in small increments, looking for improvements. Don't make things worse with more big changes right away. Don't assume somebody else's factory settings will do anything for your unit - that's why all these sets have individual settings, after all.

What you should be doing is carefully, slowly testing individual settings (and hopefully consulting the service manual if you can find it) for specific improvements. Maybe contact a pro service person; maybe eBay member Pat Savon could help you.

And did you fix the geometry?

[Xan]

We don't need a sticky, but people rather need to check the service manual before adjusting unknown settings. I don't think it's too far-fetched to guess that "factory defaults" doesn't necessarily mean fail-safe when it's about non-consumer hardware.

[ffm_1975]

Probably a max stupid question, but seemingly I'm blind, neither getting it with the BVM itself nor in the manual: how/ where in the *** do I connect external audio/speakers? [sorry, serious question]

[Fudoh]

since the BVMs don't have any audio input, why would they have audio or speaker outputs ?

Usually you would simply connect active speakers to the audio connects on your RGB/BNC breakout cable.

[ffm_1975]

Ok, that was my guess. It just seemed to plain simple. (but ja, I hoped there was a way to solve it in a different way, with a whatever adaptor)
Thanks!!

[donluca]

Uhm, should I open a dedicated thread on the issues of my PVM and BVM monitors?

I recognize this is a generic CRT thread, maybe I should open my own.

[Xan]

You might have more luck on a site where technicians who used to repair these monitors for a living hang out. I'm not aware of any such sites myself though.

[donluca]

yeah, definitely, thanks for the advice!
Do you happen to know any of these sites where I can find technicians proficient in CRT technology?

Also, iirc there's a user on this board who has a lot of knowledge on CRT stuff, I believe his name is Fagin.

Maybe I can send him a PM pointing to the thread I'll open shortly.

[elmagicochrisg]

Hi, I hope you guys don't mind me posting in this thread...

A little while ago I bought a PVM-20M2E. It came with only one BNC to cinch connector, so I had to wait to test it until I got some more of them, which I do now. And unfortunately the set doesn't work as I expected it to. These are my findings so far...

- Video in: Horrible image, but everything is there. Just very grainy and the 'grains' hop around like crazy. Normal I guess?...

- Component in: No grainy stuff going on. But the image is unstable. Like it's constantly going 1mm up and down very fast. This makes the horizontal lines you should normally see almost invisible, and makes the image very hard to look at. It's better from a distance, but even then it's still hard on the eyes. There's also a bit of green ghosting on the left of dark objects like the life bar in Megaman...

- RGB: Virtually no image. Just a very distorted mess. Like watching those scrambled images from blocked movie channels in the 90's...

As far as component goes, the normal menu options did not make any difference. The wobble stays, or gets worse even no matter what the settings. Haven't tried the service menu yet and am a bit wary of doing so since I don't want to mess it up even more. Especially since I don't want to give the seller an excuse not to reimburse me if I can't get this thing to work...

To test the RGB connection I made a rudimentary RGB SCART to RGB Cinch + Sync adapter. Just R, G, B, S and their grounds. No LM1881 or anything. Tried different consoles on it, both with the EXT SYNC button on and off. Nothing changes. I tried my RGB modded (viletim) US NES, RGB modded US Turbo Duo, RGB modded US N64 (for which if I remember correctly I had to use an LM1881 chip), and both an unmodded Eu and an unmodded US Gamecube. So I don't think the lack of a sync stripper in my adapter makes any difference. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Working the normal menus in RGB mode also didn't make any difference...

Another thing worth mentioning is that the menu is in some cases very stable. No grain, no wobble, just perfectly still and well-defined letters. So that at least proves the monitor is able of producing stable images. Again, correct me if I'm wrong...

Any help would be appreciated. I had to go get the thing in another town and get it home with public service, leading to me having blue and purple legs and being sore for days after. So I really hope it wasn't all in vain and this set is just FUBAR...

[Xan]

The way you describe component sounds like you are just looking at a 480i signal honestly. What source did you use for that? Any chance of your selfmade SCART to RCA adapter job being bad? And you don't need a sync stripper for the 20M2E.

If you picked the monitor up yourself, why didn't you bring a console with you to test it out?

[elmagicochrisg]

Thanks for taking the time to reply... ^^

The way you describe component sounds like you are just looking at a 480i signal honestly.

I don't think this model has progressive scan. When I put my GC in progressive scan mode, I got two images one next to the other.

I can't imagine an interlaced image looking so unstable either to be honest. It's looks nothing like interlaced on a regular CRT set. It's more like the whole image is bopping up and down.

What source did you use for that? And you don't need a sync stripper for the 20M2E.

US Gamecube with component cable, both in interlaced and progressive scan mode.

Any chance of your selfmade SCART to RCA adapter job being bad?

Doubtful. I tested every connection from beginning to end for continuity.

I checked if everything is correctly connected about ten times too... lol

Tested all the cinch cables I used with the AV connection of my NES connected to a small Philips CRT before using them with the PVM.

If you picked the monitor up yourself, why didn't you bring a console with you to test it out?

Because someone got the set from Leuven to Ghent for me. After which I came to Ghent station to bring it back with me to Ostend to my place.

[h1ghju1ce]

As Fudoh writes in the 1st page of this thread, about the:

Pioneer PDP-V402EU

a guy is selling one on ebay (not me!)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/pioneer-pdp-v ... SS:GB:3160

pick up from Derbyshire

just thought you guys might be interested

[elmagicochrisg]

So no easy solutions then? Or no pointers?...

I thought most STG lovers would know a thing or two about PVMs...

[BazookaBen]

So no easy solutions then? Or no pointers?...

I thought most STG lovers would know a thing or two about PVMs...

They know a thing or two but not everything. Sounds like your PVM is having trouble translating the video signal. Since the menus look fine sometimes, that indicates that the tube and everything connected to it is working fine. It seems that somewhere in the chain the input signal is corrupted. And since the problem is happening with component and RGB, it's pretty far down the signal path.

I'm far from an expert but that's what I looks like to me.

[elmagicochrisg]

So no easy solutions then? Or no pointers?...

I thought most STG lovers would know a thing or two about PVMs...

They know a thing or two but not everything. Sounds like your PVM is having trouble translating the video signal. Since the menus look fine sometimes, that indicates that the tube and everything connected to it is working fine. It seems that somewhere in the chain the input signal is corrupted. And since the problem is happening with component and RGB, it's pretty far down the signal path.

I'm far from an expert but that's what I looks like to me.

That's what I feared yes. Guess I'll just have to contact the seller and hope for the best.

Thanks for the reply anyway... ^^

[Mishrak109]

Just snagged a PVM 20L2MD over the weekend and I'm really pleased with it. I was hoping to get ahold of a 20L5 or a M4MU, but for what I plan to use it for (SNES and PS1 games), it should be more than sufficient. The quality has been really impressive, even with just s-video. Component is coming soon, but for now S-Video looks gorgeous.

[BazookaBen]

Just snagged a PVM 20L2MD over the weekend and I'm really pleased with it. I was hoping to get ahold of a 20L5 or a M4MU, but for what I plan to use it for (SNES and PS1 games), it should be more than sufficient. The quality has been really impressive, even with just s-video. Component is coming soon, but for now S-Video looks gorgeous.

Did yours come with RGB inputs on the upper left side? If it didn't, I'm about to put some of those up for sale.

And a question for everybody: I visited a place that had a bunch of PVM's today. I saw one sony monitor that had black front bezel, and knobs on the bottom like the 20M2 and 20L2 (which have a beige bezel). It was the only one like that I saw. All the others with a black bezel were older and had buttons instead of knobs. I could get it's model number because it was wrapped up at the bottom of a stack of 15 or so PVM's. Any clue what model it may have been?

[Xyga]

Can't find much info about the pre-flat consumer Trinitrons, especially the European models.

Almost all the talk and documentation is either about PVM/BVM (which I don't really care about) and 2000's consumer Trinitrons with those annoying flat tubes (I have one and I hate it more every day).

But what about the curved consumer models ? (probably mid-end 90's) Are there specific models / part numbers or series to look for ?

[niall]

Can't find much info about the pre-flat consumer Trinitrons, especially the European models.

Are there specific models / part numbers or series to look for ?

KV-29xx is a PVM-like 29" tube, very nice. KV-C27 and KV-C29 are also great.

[lui]

Does an RGB21 to BNC adaptor require any components, or is it merely a direct pass-through?
I had intended to purchase : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Female-RGB21-to ... 1511848802
for use with a super famicom console, but making my own would be a more "attractive" solution since I am assuming the following cables are relatively cheaply made.

[Xyga]

Can't find much info about the pre-flat consumer Trinitrons, especially the European models.

Are there specific models / part numbers or series to look for ?

KV-29xx is a PVM-like 29" tube, very nice. KV-C27 and KV-C29 are also great.

I didn't know about the 'C' models, thanks.

But after some research I think I've found my 'dream' consumer Trinitron: KV-25X1B or KV29X1B.

Slim bezel 50/60Hz rgb Trinitron goodness.

Check here this guy used one as a replacement screen in his blast city: http://saturn.netboarder.com/t9894-ma-2 ... blast-city

Now to find one in good shape...

[Fudoh]

KV-29X1B

this was my TV from the mid 90s to around 2002.

[Xyga]

Lucky you !

It seems simple compared to more recent and bulkier Wega's, but easier to tate and not suffering from almost impossible-to-fix geometry issues.

[c4ke]

I just received a BVM-D14H5E and bought a BKM-129X seperately for RGB/Component inputs.
It's a multiformat monitor which ran fine with both 240p and 480p content. And it looked absolutely stunning.

I'm using a Wii + component to play Gamecube games at 480p. But at some point (when selecting progressive mode in a Gamecube game) switching from 480i to 480p made the screen go black and never got any video back.

Now when I turn on the BVM it does not degauss (which it should do) and is not showing the menu. The buttons still seem to respond but no video is being shown.
Anybody else that experienced something similar and knows how to resolve this?

I've still got some PVM's running just fine, but I really want this BVM operational.

[Xan]

Does an RGB21 to BNC adaptor require any components, or is it merely a direct pass-through?
I had intended to purchase : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Female-RGB21-to ... 1511848802
for use with a super famicom console, but making my own would be a more "attractive" solution since I am assuming the following cables are relatively cheaply made.

Completely passive unless you'd need a sync stripper in there.

[Mishrak109]

Just snagged a PVM 20L2MD over the weekend and I'm really pleased with it. I was hoping to get ahold of a 20L5 or a M4MU, but for what I plan to use it for (SNES and PS1 games), it should be more than sufficient. The quality has been really impressive, even with just s-video. Component is coming soon, but for now S-Video looks gorgeous.

Did yours come with RGB inputs on the upper left side? If it didn't, I'm about to put some of those up for sale.

Yes, actually, it did. I was a little surprised by that, but I'm also rather pleased it was there. That means it has RCA, Component, S-Video, and RGB input right?

I'm still trying to understand the different naming of the inputs.

[BazookaBen]

Yes, actually, it did. I was a little surprised by that, but I'm also rather pleased it was there. That means it has RCA, Component, S-Video, and RGB input right

Yeah, actually, you have two RGB inputs thanks to that card. I usually have one set to component and the other to RGB (done via the menu).

[Mishrak109]

Oh, sick. That's even better. Thanks for the tip. I had a feeling that was a second component/rgb connection when I saw it.

[BazookaBen]

So I found a good fix for PVM's that have poor interlacing on 480i sources.

I just bought an Olympus OEV203 (rebranded PVM-20M2) and you could see scan lines with 480i video. I messed around in the service menu and found that adjusting Vertical Hold moved the lines into a better position and eliminated the scanlines.

[elmagicochrisg]

Does an RGB21 to BNC adaptor require any components, or is it merely a direct pass-through?
I had intended to purchase : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Female-RGB21-to ... 1511848802
for use with a super famicom console, but making my own would be a more "attractive" solution since I am assuming the following cables are relatively cheaply made.

Just tap into the R, G, B and composite lines, and ground all of them. That's about it.

You can check the picture I posted a few posts earlier.