Battle Garegga Color Issue

[Some-Mist]

Battle Garegga board has been having issues and I'm seeking help from you shmups forum!

When I originally received the board, it ran flawlessly. I left it in my cab for about 2-3 months, and would play it a couple times a week. I took a few week break, and after I turned it back on the colors seemed.. a bit inverted I guess? The text and items/background have a pink or light red hue/glow.

I used the monitor calibration knobs to try and shift the colors and failed.

The board was sent out to a repair guy who ran it for 24 hours without an issue.

I got the board back... and I still have the same issue. I swap it to my supergun + xm29 and it runs flawlessly. The 12v and 5v read 12.2 and 5.05 (there's also no way to adjust voltage on my gun).
I moved it back to the cab, adjusted the voltage to 5.05, and my 12v is reading at a steady 11.7 whereas the 5.05 bounces between 5.05 and 5.04. I adjusted the voltage both ways and the issue still persists.

The pictures include a jamma voltimeter adapter, but I have the same issue without it.

I'm not too great at this sorta thing.

1x Battle Garegga board
1x New Astro City
1x Jasen Supergun w/ NEC XM29
1x zakk roms

no power converter for the cab - plugged directly into the US wall socket.

pics:
nac






supergun/xm29






The oddest part: this only occurs with my battle garegga board. My 6-7 other boards (including raizing APB) work flawlessly. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[mvsfan]

try cleaning your jamma edge connector and the connector in the cabinet.

it sounds like you have a dirty connection that only doesnt work when you combine that board and the harness in your cabinet.

other than that i couldnt think of anything else that would do it.

[Some-Mist]

thanks for the quick reply. would you just use an eraser and qtips/rubbing alcohol for the jamma edge and connector?

[mvsfan]

you can usually clean the connector in the cabinet with a card wrapped in a thin shirt and some 90% alcohol. Dont get the regular rubbing alcohol because it has too much water in it and that will corrode the connector.

as for the edge connector on the game - an eraser works great.

I would make sure the cabinet is unplugged first.

make sure everything dries out real good before you try to use the cabinet.

[system11]

Have you tried flexing it very gently in both situations? Is the board vertical or laning in the cab and flat with the supergun? Have you checked the underneath for any pins which are bent and touching?

[Dave_K.]

This won't help you much, but I have the same problem with one of my Garegga PCBs. It shows the same rainbow/neon like color palette error in all my Windy/Astro cabs. Never tried it in a supergun. I had seen a japanese blog with picture of the same issue, and fixing it by replacing one of the chips nearest the jamma edge connector. I just haven't had time to properly troubleshoot it.

[Some-Mist]

Have you tried flexing it very gently in both situations? Is the board vertical or laning in the cab and flat with the supergun? Have you checked the underneath for any pins which are bent and touching?

I've been kinda scared to try and flex the board, but I'll get it a try when I get home tonight.

with the supergun... the board lies flat and for the cab it's typically mounted with the jamma edge facing towards me. But for the majority of my troubleshooting runs on the NAC it's been flat much like the supergun orientation. I'll double check the pins too.

This won't help you much, but I have the same problem with one of my Garegga PCBs. It shows the same rainbow/neon like color palette error in all my Windy/Astro cabs. Never tried it in a supergun. I had seen a japanese blog with picture of the same issue, and fixing it by replacing one of the chips nearest the jamma edge connector. I just haven't had time to properly troubleshoot it.

This is what I was truly afraid of. Thanks for this.. I tried searching quite a bit for someone with a similar issue and info is sparse... so it makes me feel a little bit better that I'm not the only one haha.

[ELabit]

Have you tried other PCBs in your cab?

[Some-Mist]

yes - they all run flawlessly with and without the voltimeter adapter.

Spoiler

armed police batrider korean b
ibara
esp ra.de.
strikers 1999
dangun feveron
dimahoo
progear
even my mvs 1 slot w/ the super spy or my 138-in-1.

[dpful]

If it runs good elsewhere, and the voltage is the same, and it's not a flex problem (you'd be able to tell that right away with just a tiny bit of flex), it's got to be a color connection issue. Find the red green and blue wires on the jamma connector and follow them right from the board connection to the monitor. And if other games work, it's got to be at the board. So it's prob just an issue with the jamma connector and how it touches the PCB. Flex just the connector itself while the game's on to try and find the loose spot. Anyways, it looks to me like one of the color's not getting to the monitor is all. The blue.
Er, I see there's some blue on the test screen- check that anyways.

I guess it could be possible the your cab's monitor has parameters outside of every other monitor, then it could be that chip. That sure would be lame though. I'd double check that the Pinout of the cab really does match the supergun, and then fix if different-- the only diff I could imagine is how it handles sound and/or redundant grounds. Anyhow, if it used to work, that's not the case duh. At least, Just be grateful that you can blame the cab instead of the board.

[dpful]

Is apb the exact same hardware? It's got to just be the video right from the board having an ill connection. That's ground, sync, r,b, and g. It almost looks like two of the colors are shorted, and the monitors getting two colors at once on one of the lines, if a speck or something is shorting your board... Look around tiny chip legs for that. That would also explain how it started happening. Keep checking it on the super gun so you know there's nothing wrong with the boards itself.

[Some-Mist]

I don't believe it's the exact same hardware but that's kind of over my head. It looks like they use the same CPU, but I haven't really done a close comparison yet.

I have a lot to test now but should be getting an eraser from ebay early next week for the jamma edge contacts.

[dink]

You could try using a regular pencil eraser, then wipe it off with a little alcohol on a q-tip or paper towel to get any left-behind eraser residue.
good luck!
- dink

[system11]

It's not going to be dirt on the edge connector.

From what you and Dave said it's not going to be a flex problem.

So perhaps the different load placed on the video output driving a CRT vs a supergun (they'll have different input impedance) is enough to push borderline parts into a form of failure.

The picture comes from two 74HCT273s in U12 and U13 by way of a big resistor array (that great big row of them in 3s). These chips take normal TTL logic level inputs and output at CMOS levels. They're known to fail and cause weird streak problems. Perhaps this is a potential variation on the theme. They do really need to be HCT if you're replacing them by the way.

[Some-Mist]

the board will run at 4.8, but the issue still persists. I'll try again tonight and take some pics.

[system11]

Yeah see above, thought about it for a bit more.

Shame you don't live in the UK.

[Some-Mist]

what are those letters? nn - a - . nn (I actually never noticed it before it started acting up)









edit: that big bright saucer with the black dot in the middle is my bedroom ceiling light btw

[brentsg]

It'd be worth sending it to system11 just to solve a mystery, and perhaps get your board fixed.

[system11]

Must be someone stateside who can try. The postage here and back with taxes on top is just dumb.

[Some-Mist]

that's the thing tho... I sent it over to channelmaniac of arcadecomponents (very nice guy) before he left the US and he ran an endurance/stress test on it with absolutely no issue. And it runs fine on my gun which leads me to believe it isn't the board itself but per dave's post...a combination of the garegga pcb components and sega cabs.. which is possibly why replacing one of the chips nearest the connector might've fixed previous issues?

couple things that I forgot to mention that I will note in the original post... I installed the zakk roms programmed by hobbyroms on the board, but I have my doubts that the roms could be causing the issue since the board functioned perfectly in the cab with the roms before it started acting up. I also plug the cab directly into the US-based wall socket and do not use a converter. between the time the board functioned perfectly and the issue I'm having now, the board and harness were not touched - it was mounted in the same spot over the course of a couple months and used/turned on a couple dozen times. though it seems bizarre and unlikely (even to me).. I made absolutely no adjustments over those few months.

any other suggestions are more-than-welcome - I still have a laundry list of amateur testing to do myself.

[system11]

Got a logic probe?

[Some-Mist]

nah.. no idea what I would do with it tbh. but I can nab one next pay period if there's possibly something to be had.

these comments have been sticking out as well:
"So perhaps the different load placed on the video output driving a CRT vs a supergun (they'll have different input impedance) is enough to push borderline parts into a form of failure."

"The picture comes from two 74HCT273s in U12 and U13 by way of a big resistor array (that great big row of them in 3s). These chips take normal TTL logic level inputs and output at CMOS levels. They're known to fail and cause weird streak problems. Perhaps this is a potential variation on the theme. They do really need to be HCT if you're replacing them by the way."

over the course of the next few months...if I can't find a fix... I'd definitely be willing to pay the exorbitant shipping + tax and return costs (and more for the effort) to the UK if I can't solve it. I mainly bought the PCB to play in the cab and haven't used the supergun lately other than for testing purposes.

[Dave_K.]

So perhaps the different load placed on the video output driving a CRT vs a supergun (they'll have different input impedance) is enough to push borderline parts into a form of failure.

I think you've hit the nail on the head system11. U12 and U13 were the chips I remember seeing in a Japanese blog as the culprit, so I'll look into ordering some and see if that helps.

what are those letters? nn - a - . nn (I actually never noticed it before it started acting up)

I see the same thing, and likely was there all along but only very noticeable with the corrupted color palate. Nice easter egg.

[twalden]

I have the same issue with my Garegga. Hopefully will replace them here in the next few weeks and post the results. I have been looking for a fix for this issue since my board starting doing this about a year or so ago.

[Some-Mist]

does it only occur on sega cabs/have you tried it on another setup?

[twalden]

I have an Impress and an AWSD cabinet, rainbow color issues happen in both cabs.

[Dave_K.]

I had to order parts in bulk, so if this works I may be able to fix other people's boards. I'll find out next week.

[system11]

Remember to use sockets

[Dave_K.]

LOL I will this time.

[twalden]

I replaced U12 and U13 and color problem is gone! Thanks for the help. I didn't use sockets though
Mouser has the TI CD74HCT273E chips in stock and there is no minimum order.