Atari Jaguar Question

[KindGrind]

In this day and age, is it worth buying one of those? As a teenager, I dreamed about owning one... So there's this nostalgia feel. People speak highly of AvP, but it looks incredibly dated, quite choppy and slow to me. Tempest 2K I have fond memories of, but there are other options if I want to play a Tempest game, the PSX version being not bad at all it seems.

How do you guys feel about this? Quite a chunk of change to be putting on a console. I don't own any other Atari console. I'm debating whether I should buy more AAA SNES/NES/TG16 games instead... Do any of you own a Jag, play it from time to time? Worth it? Thanks!

[Specineff]

Given you have better options to play the few gems on the Jag's crown, I'd say skip it.

AVP is little more than a "Run through a series of interconnected boxes" simulator to me, and Tempest 2000 can be had on other platforms. Not worth the trouble, IMHO.

[robivy64]

Might be worth it just to scratch that nostalgia itch from when you swooned over one. It'll put your curiosity to rest, and you can always sell it when you are done.

[szycag]

You'd be missing out on exclusives like White Men Can't Jump

[BIL]

I've no attraction to any of the mid-90s western consoles, but I do dig the Jag's lack of dust flaps on a toploading cartridge system. Fuck the police!

[KindGrind]

You'd be missing out on exclusives like White Men Can't Jump

Hahaha!

CIB copies can be had for 10$, too, which is great.

[brentsg]

Yeah it's worth it. I'd own one just for Tempest 2k and Defender as well.

[louisg]

Every now and then I get the itch to buy a Jag too, but it's a lot of dough for only a few good games, and some of those are pricey too. IMO the Jag is only for diehard atari fans.

all that said, the games that interest me aside from t2k are Iron Soldier, Super Burnout, Power Drive Rally, Wolf 3d (different graphics from PC), then the ports of Cannon Fodder, Flashback, and Pinball Fantasies, plus Cybermorph (gotta have the pack-in). Plus I'm morbidly curious about Checkered Flag.

But if you're just looking for an atari system, 2600 is the classic but you've gotta be prepared for 70s style gaming. But I think the 8-bit home computers may be the best bet for a newcomer (it's a 5200 with a working controller ). Then the Lyn has a nice library of arcadey stuff.

EDIT: Ooh, looks like there's sensible soccer for it too?? Hmmm

[drauch]

I think it's far from worth it unless you score one locally for cheap. Why play inferior PC ports with that monstrosity of a controller? Same goes for something like the 3DO: the number of exclusive and superior port games is so minimal. Thought about getting one for the AVP exclusive, but I dunno, so many other games out there that would probably prove so much more enjoyable for the price. Just my two cents/hate speech towards horrible consoles.

[brentsg]

What's an inferior PC port on Jag? Doom was a great port, but I wouldn't buy the system for it.

It's all about the Jeff Minter.

YES, YES, YES!!!

[drauch]

Basically every PC port mentioned here. Doom is far from a great port. I mean, you're all here via a computer, so I really don't understand why one would sacrifice the money and an almost universally preferred control scheme to one of the most ridiculous controllers in console history. I could definitely understand if someone was a hug fan of Tempest 2000, as it's considered the best port, or as I mentioned before, some of the few exclusive games like AvP. But it seems as if KindGrind is asking as a whole with little experience to the console if it's worth paying the amount to get one and get started, to which I can only offer a resounding no, it's simply just not worth it as an all-around console with very little benefits.

[zinger]

Japanese dudes mocking the Jaguar: http://sp.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm4410566

I think I watched another episode of this, or maybe it was some other Japanese guys also wearings masks while mocking the Jaguar (wouldn't be surprised), where they reviewed Atari Karts. Wish I could find it again, but it's been years since I watched it...

Anyway I'm probably getting a Jaguar at some point just because I'm curious to see how the system feels to play with. I'd also like to try the original cart version of Rayman, although it seems inferior to the PS/SS/PC versions.

[LordHypnos]

you know you want Kasumi Ninja

[louisg]

Basically every PC port mentioned here. Doom is far from a great port. I mean, you're all here via a computer, so I really don't understand why one would sacrifice the money and an almost universally preferred control scheme to one of the most ridiculous controllers in console history. I could definitely understand if someone was a hug fan of Tempest 2000, as it's considered the best port, or as I mentioned before, some of the few exclusive games like AvP. But it seems as if KindGrind is asking as a whole with little experience to the console if it's worth paying the amount to get one and get started, to which I can only offer a resounding no, it's simply just not worth it as an all-around console with very little benefits.

I think a lot of those PC ports are actually enhanced. I'm not sure how some of them compare to their Amiga incarnations (the original platform for games like Cannon Fodder or Pinball Fantasies), but the PC versions tended to substitute awful FM sound instead of the lush Amiga original audio. And IIRC Flashback also adds more colors while Wolf 3d adds higher res graphics. For some of these games, although more of a moot point for me because I own an Amiga 2000, it might be nice to own some of these as a legit copy on non-magnetic media

But given the option, I'd still go for "AAA SNES/NES/TG16 games" instead every time...

[louisg]

Oh jeez Defender 2000 looks really fun. How did I miss this one? DAMMIT, BRENTSG, YOU'RE GONNA MAKE ME BUY A JAG >:(

[drauch]

I understand with you on the Amiga stuff; that makes sense with the sound (maybe a work around? Can't say from personal experience,) but to sacrifice the controls? That seems like a different ballgame, but alas, I suppose that relies on preference, but still nothing you couldn't implement with the PC versions if needed. Wolf 3D is based on the SNES port, and you're correct about the nicer sprites, but the game is still a hodgepodge. You can't sneak up on enemies, gun sprites are changed and there are some different guns, and the oddest thing, treasure adds to your health, amongst other small bits. From what I've read, the Jaguar port of Flashback touted the color enhancement, but it never really happened. Everything I keep seeing is it's about like any other port of it out there, which again, I can't see it as a selling point. Doom is a complete clusterfuck: missing/modified maps, missing enemies, and none of the beautifully brutal soundtrack is present.

[louisg]

I understand with you on the Amiga stuff; that makes sense with the sound (maybe a work around? Can't say from personal experience,) but to sacrifice the controls? That seems like a different ballgame, but alas, I suppose that relies on preference, but still nothing you couldn't implement with the PC versions if needed. Wolf 3D is based on the SNES port, and you're correct about the nicer sprites, but the game is still a hodgepodge. You can't sneak up on enemies, gun sprites are changed and there are some different guns, and the oddest thing, treasure adds to your health, amongst other small bits. From what I've read, the Jaguar port of Flashback touted the color enhancement, but it never really happened. Everything I keep seeing is it's about like any other port of it out there, which again, I can't see it as a selling point. Doom is a complete clusterfuck: missing/modified maps, missing enemies, and none of the beautifully brutal soundtrack is present.

There's no real workaround unless you were to reprogram the game. A lot of authors on the PC didn't know about formats like MOD files or how to write a player for them efficiently, and often went with MIDI. Sometimes it was out of convenience because, even if it didn't sound that good, you could write a General MIDI driver for pretty much anything and they sometimes had to support multiple pieces of gear (Adlib, MT-32, Sound Canvas, Ultrasound). Anyway, the long and the short of it is that the music files just don't contain the same information that they did on the Amiga, where a game's soundtrack would contain the exact instrument sound data instead of an approximation. Making things worse was that a lot of PC game authors just did not know what to do with FM sound. It's not that it couldn't have sounded great (like the Megadrive's FM chip), it's that most people didn't know how to make it sing.

The worst offender of all those that comes to mind is The Chaos Engine for DOS, where the MOD file's chord sounds were replaced by single notes (!!!). Someone did an insanely hasty conversion on that poor game. Now if THAT were on Jaguar I'd buy one in an instant.

The Doom port is AFAIK the basis for all the other console ports. There's no real reason to play it these days, but somehow I remember it introducing smoother higher-color shading even though it killed the music and simplified some of the levels. But that's too bad about Wolf. Somehow I'd assumed it was like the Mac port. Hmm maybe I should just get that for my OS9 CRT iMac that just sits in the corner and collects dust

I think you must be right about Flashback. Everything says more colors, but I'm not seeing a difference. The sound is nice, but it's not as good sounding as the original (it sounds more like the PC one with a wavetable). Here's the original one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0nieImnM5U.

[louisg]

Oh crap, the Mac version of Wolf 3d may have the same shortcomings as the Jag one WTF

[drauch]

Interesting! Thanks for the writeup. I'm not too educated in Amiga stuff, so that helps me quite a bit. What a bummer, and a good thing to know, too, because I almost bought that port of Chaos Engine awhile back. Oh, how it would be so nice if all ports were created equal...

[brentsg]

Oh jeez Defender 2000 looks really fun. How did I miss this one? DAMMIT, BRENTSG, YOU'RE GONNA MAKE ME BUY A JAG >:(

There are other games worth owning, but If I only had Tempest 2k and Defender 2k I'd be satisfied with a Jaguar.

[louisg]

Interesting! Thanks for the writeup. I'm not too educated in Amiga stuff, so that helps me quite a bit. What a bummer, and a good thing to know, too, because I almost bought that port of Chaos Engine awhile back. Oh, how it would be so nice if all ports were created equal...

Yeah :/ DOS machines would've been perfectly capable of a 1:1 port at the time, too. I also forgot that it runs at 70hz, vs. the original's 50hz. I remember it being pretty rough.

[arcadehero]

I'm way late on this thread but didn't notice it until now. I've owned a Jag since the late 90s and I have about every game in the library

While there are a number of stinkers in the library, these usually give the rest a bad name. Here are some great titles, I own all of them and don't feel cheated by having them just because they are on the Jaguar :

Tempest 2000
Missile Command 3D
Defender 2000
Zero 5
BattleMorph (CD)
Iron Soldier 1 and 2
AvP
Doom (linked is always fun)
Wolf 3D
Rayman
Super Burnout
BattleSphere (hard to find but awesome tribute to Star Raiders with plenty of additions)
Braindead 13 (CD)
Flashback
GORF Classic (CD, hard to find)
HyperForce
Power Drive Rally
Protector (Defender clone by Bethesda)
Raiden
Towers 2

The system has had a very interesting after-life with homebrew stuff, some of these mentioned games came afterwards but because many were 99% finished betas by professional studios, their quality is better than some typical homebrew items (not all the homebrews are good of course - many praise Downfall but I find it to be a very boring game that feels like a demo)

[broken harbour]

If you want one, buy one. I bought a 3DO a couple years back, I have 2 games for it, and it's been used twice.
However, when guests come over they point at it, their eyes become the size of dinner plates, run around the room and go "OMGWTFBBQ!!! A THREE-DEE-OOOHHH?!?!?!?"

Worth it right there for that, although I will eventually buy more games for it.

I'd buy a Jaguar and Jag CD for the same reason, to scratch that itch and even if it's just a curiosity item that gets turned on once a year, if it makes you happy, it's worth it. If not, sell it later, at least then you owned one once and tried it out.

Also the Jag is relatively cheap to collect for, even CIB stuff is usually decently priced, so there is that. Think of it like a Virtual Boy, even tho it wasn't really that great, I want one, not because it was amazing, but because it was a failed experiment and nobody else I know has one.

[brentsg]

Damn I wasn't aware of Gorf. I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

A bit of reading looks like he ran into licensing issues, which is nuts for such an old game. It should be abandonware by now.

[Obiwanshinobi]

There's a homebrew GBA port of Gorf, but no autofire on a handheld can fuck right off.
Speaking of The Chaos Engine, is the MD/Genny port much good? It would be convenient to play it emulated on Wii.

[louisg]

I did it. I bought a Jag

I'm really looking forward to Super Burnout \o/

[Skykid]

My commiserations.

[Austin]

I have a Jaguar and still play it somewhat regularly. It has enough games up my alley to keep playing it, but it's a tough sell these days at the current prices it tends to go for.

My favorites are Wolf 3D, Tempest 2000, Iron Soldier, Super Burnout.

[louisg]

I have a Jaguar and still play it somewhat regularly. It has enough games up my alley to keep playing it, but it's a tough sell these days at the current prices it tends to go for.

My favorites are Wolf 3D, Tempest 2000, Iron Soldier, Super Burnout.

Those are good! Right now I'm borrowing Super Burnout (with my own copy on the way), Rayman, and Tempest 2000. The T2K actually feels a bit tighter than the Saturn release despite the worse framerate, and the sound mix is much better. I think what I want to do eventually is make or buy a spinner for it.

Man, the Super Burnout soundtrack is fantastic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdKE3QjUgck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGvW3wojy6g
I don't *think* these videos are off real hardware though. I had it hooked up to my stereo and it's surprisingly non-grainy, like a Gravis Ultrasound.

Yeah, I agree that at current eBay prices I wouldn't get one. This one I got for a great price.

My commiserations.

Well, I made a list of games I want for it, and there's actually enough to keep me interested. It's definitely not a system I would *generally* recommend though.

BTW has anyone tried that snowboarding game for it? It looks ridiculously fast. I also wonder how the Pinball Fantasies port is-- I have an Amiga, but those games are NOT NTSC friendly. No matter how I force it, it still won't go. So, the Jag one is appealing to me if it's not broken.

[Skykid]

My Jag is literally a Tempest 2000 machine. It comes out at gatherings whenever alcohol is involved and does a fine job, before going back in the box.

I so have a copy of Raiden but I've never bothered playing it.