XRGB-3

[Xyga]

I always do my adjustments when it's on of course.
Just don't touch anything else with the tip of the screwdriver and it'll be fine.
Later you should pierce a hole in the lid and adapt some kind of knob, so you don't always have to open it and use a screwdriver.

[Laughingman.s9]

I always do my adjustments when it's on of course.
Just don't touch anything else with the tip of the screwdriver and it'll be fine.
Later you should pierce a hole in the lid and adapt some kind of knob, so you don't always have to open it and use a screwdriver.

Lol didnt even bother with small increment adjustments, counter clockwise all the way leaves it perfectly centered

At first it looks like the gefen was notuceably sharper but after messing with some settings on the tv, i find the picture is nearly identical. The gefen is ever so slightly sharper but now i dont have to worry about sync issues. I should have gone this route from the begining. You and fudoh were 100 percent right. A transcoder with a sony w is definetly the way to go.


Not sure if ill keep the gefen as a dedicated dreamcast scaler or flip it on the trade station and keep the dreamcast running out of the xrgb as i barely noticed noise on the signal

Thanks for all the help, im finally content lol...until the next xrgb releases

Edit: maybe now with freed up time in lag from the old analog to digital conversion from the gefen i can finally beat that god damned jamaican frog in parappa da rappa lol

[Fudoh]

Not sure if ill keep the gefen as a dedicated dreamcast scaler

especially for the DC you should compare the visible "4:3" aspect ratios. DC will appear a little too slim through the transcoder and a little too wide through the Gefen. You should check out both and decide on that.

[Edward_Tz]

So is there no good way to get Dreamcast onto the W6/7/8 Sony TVs? I guess once I get a vga box I'll try the xrgb 3 with it and see how I like it.

[Laughingman.s9]

Not sure if ill keep the gefen as a dedicated dreamcast scaler

especially for the DC you should compare the visible "4:3" aspect ratios. DC will appear a little too slim through the transcoder and a little too wide through the Gefen. You should check out both and decide on that.

Dc looks basically the same to me directly thru the gefen as it did via the xrgb 3 --> to the gefen

I've yet to see it through the xrgb 3 and transcoder but I don't expect much of a difference. I'll wait til my toro gets here but it's looking like I'm going to get rid of the gefen and possibly pickup an extron later on. In 4:3 i notice it's off axis but only if I go looking for it, I doubt most people would pick up on it. So it's way to much of a hassle with my setup to get audio out of the dreamcast vga now since its bypassing the xrgb

In 16:9 like on the psp or wii it's very noticeable, I can't further adjust the potentiometer of the 9a60 since I already have it as far left as it will go

[Xyga]

On the Sony W650A + XRGB-3 + AA 9A60 with 240p sources (MD, PS1, etc) I usually set quite dark lines (151 or 167) and the XRGB's internal sharpness to zero/minimum.

Then the Sony on 'game-original', main sharpness around 64, details enhancement to either 'low' or 'off', and a level of overscan when required.

Also 'Neutral' color profile + 'Live color' to 'low' works nicely for me.

The thing is I still prefer the XRGB-2 in the chain. There's a loss of details but the picture feels more 'analogue' and full/realistic.

[Laughingman.s9]

On the Sony W650A + XRGB-3 + AA 9A60 with 240p sources (MD, PS1, etc) I usually set quite dark lines (151 or 167) and the XRGB's internal sharpness to zero/minimum.

Then the Sony on 'game-original', main sharpness around 64, details enhancement to either 'low' or 'off', and a level of overscan when required.

Also 'Neutral' color profile + 'Live color' to 'low' works nicely for me.

The thing is I still prefer the XRGB-2 in the chain. There's a loss of details but the picture feels more 'analogue' and full/realistic.

On my Sony w800 i keep it on game standard, backlight I bump up 1 to 7, sharpness I drop down to 50, color temp neutral,

I turn every picture adjustment off except for clear white which I set to high, live color also on high and detail enhancer on low

On the xrgb 3 I keep everything stock, on certain games I'll bump up the brightness to 40 and keep scanlines to 167. Sharpness at 7 and v sync lock on

[Xyga]

Backlight at 7, live color on high ?

You're either half-blind or have the eco mode and light sensor activated...

[Laughingman.s9]

Backlight at 7, live color on high ?

You're either half-blind or have the eco mode and light sensor activated...

Lol live color because I love colors that pop off the screen, almost looks like I'm playing on an oled, the Eco sensors are off, backlight is only 1 notch above what it came with stock

Edit: I actually just dropped it back to 6, the colors were starting to look washed out

[Sixfortyfive]

Sort of OT, but on the topic of sharpness on the Sony W series, I usually got the best results from these settings:

- 50% through HDMI sources at 1080p
- 25% through component sources at 1080p
- 50% through component sources at 480p

Only thing I've noticed so far is the scanlines not working with Sonic 2 player.

You probably don't want prominent scanlines on 480i content.

[Edward_Tz]

I have mine in the 30s-40 for sharpness. SLG 3000 got here. I'm liking it. XRGB 3 > SLG 3000 > Extron 160xi > 9A60A is a winning combo in my book.

[BuckoA51]

Why do you need a scanline generator to add scanlines to a game like that when the XRGB3 already does that perfectly???

[Xyga]

On my setup with the XRGB-3's sharpness at 0 and the Sony's sharpness at over 60 everything looks so much better I'm having a hard time understanding how you guys find the opposite to be better (X3's sharpness at 7 and Sony's at 50 or lower).

And indeed don't use an SLG3000 when you've got the XRGB's own scanlines already (which produce better dark lines and is free of any signal degradation).
The addition of an SLG in the chain is only useful when you desire scanlines over deinterlaced 480i (whatever the deinterlacing method).

[Sixfortyfive]

On my setup with the XRGB-3's sharpness at 0 and the Sony's sharpness at over 60 everything looks so much better I'm having a hard time understanding how you guys find the opposite to be better (X3's sharpness at 7 and Sony's at 50 or lower).

I just ran some test slides from either my PC or Dreamcast.

HDMI 1080p: Direct connection from PC to TV. 50% seemed to be the point that struck the best balance.
Component 1080p: Ran the PC through an HDFury2. 25% was ideal in this case. 50% had visible ringing effects.
Component 480p: Used the 240p test suite's sharpness test. 50% seemed ideal here.

Maybe give about 2 to 3% leeway in either direction for any of these. It's not necessarily precise; I just eyeballed it until it looked right.

Maybe the HDFury oversharpens the output, but I don't think that's likely and since I don't actually have any component-only 1080p sources, I didn't bother to check.

[Xyga]

Wait, I am talking about the following scenario only: 240p RGB source > XRGB-3 B1/480p mode > Audio Authority 9A60 > Sony W.

This is where I find X3's sharpness @ '0' and Sony's sharpness @ '60+' to be optimal.

Other scenarios have nothing to do with this of course.

[Edward_Tz]

I was testing to see how it compared. It's for the games that switch to 480i. I may just use it instead of the scanlines from the XRGB though. I'll have to play with it some more. For now it seems basically the same to me.

My XRGB 3 Sharpness is at 0. The higher sharpness on the Sony doesn't do much for me. Playing Saturn games I like the lower sharpness.

[akumajo]

http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb3_update_setup_v2_50.exe

[Fudoh]

unexpected! And actually a useful update as well. Added 720p output. Better 1080p timing, compatible with the XCapture-Mini. Also (supposedly) improved USB compatibility.

[Edward_Tz]

It's weird that they're saying it was because of certain CPUs causing the incapability. Mine just wouldn't work with Win7.
Now to wait for the English version.

[Laughingman.s9]

unexpected! And actually a useful update as well. Added 720p output. Better 1080p timing, compatible with the XCapture-Mini. Also (supposedly) improved USB compatibility.

720p in b1???

[Xyga]

No in B0.

Both 720p and 1080p work in DVI now, and 1080p looks fucking stunning ([troll]who needs a Mini now?[/troll] )

Too bad there's no side sound input for HDMI on my Bravia. ^^

Anyway, some 'scanlines' over this would look perfect.

[Fudoh]

and 1080p looks fucking stunning.

won't look any better than 1600x1200 did for many years. I had this running on my 21" NECs for ages.

Anyway, some 'scanlines' over this would look perfect.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... ultibridge
Unfortunately I don't have it any longer.

[Xyga]

and 1080p looks fucking stunning.

won't look any better than 1600x1200 did for many years. I had this running on my 21" NECs for ages.

It did too on my 21" Belinea 2080S2! But that and 42" goodness (or whatever) are two different things.
EDIT: plus the Sony brings a very welcome overscan.

Anyway, some 'scanlines' over this would look perfect.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... ultibridge
Unfortunately I don't have it any longer.

Forgot about that, better would be a standalone little device thing like SLG-DVI. (and cheap)

[amaradona]

Just updated the xrgb 3 with win 7 64 bits and it works perfectly.
Now I can get 1080p on my plasma pana st50!

Let's say I plug the xrgb 3(720p) into the mini (720p) via the hdmi input ,does the mini adds lag for processing scanlines?

[Fudoh]

The Mini does not add extra lag for adding scanlines, but it has a fixed delay of about 1.5 frames. The XRGB-3 is considerably slower in B0 than it is in B1. The XRGB-3 is clocking in at roughly 22ms in B0, while the Framemeister comes in at ~24ms. Compared to less than 2ms in B1 that is....

So XRGB-3 in B1 plus Mini gives you about 26ms. XRGB-3 in B0 plus Mini gives you a heavy 46ms.

[amaradona]

Thank you Fudoh for the quick answer.

[Laughingman.s9]

The Mini does not add extra lag for adding scanlines, but it has a fixed delay of about 1.5 frames. The XRGB-3 is considerably slower in B0 than it is in B1. The XRGB-3 is clocking in at roughly 22ms in B0, while the Framemeister comes in at ~24ms. Compared to less than 2ms in B1 that is....

So XRGB-3 in B1 plus Mini gives you about 26ms. XRGB-3 in B0 plus Mini gives you a heavy 46ms.

I'm curious about something, do you or anyone else here have any comparison pics of an xrgb 3 in b0 against a xrgb mini?

I understand the mini handles deninterlwcing better but I would like to see how much, especially now.

I wonder how the xrgb 3 chained into a toro box used exclusively as a scanliner then fed into audio authority 9a60 all in b0 compares to an xrgb framemeister in the same resolution. By your estimation the xrgb 3 deinterlace slightly faster so it has that going for it at least.

[SGGG2]

As Xyga stated earlier, there's no point to using a Scan Line Generator in conjunction with the XRGB-3 for 240p content.

[Edward_Tz]

I figured it would be good for a comparison.
I went with the XRGB 3 over the Framemeister specifically because of the better handling of 240p to 480i transitions. I wanted to try the SLG 3000 to see what the scanlines from that looked liked and to try out having them on for the 480i games.

[Laughingman.s9]

As Xyga stated earlier, there's no point to using a Scan Line Generator in conjunction with the XRGB-3 for 240p content.

I'm talking strictly for use in B0 mode where there are no scanlines.

This isn't relal something I. Interested in although I do have most of the equipment to try it, it's more out of curiosity's sake.

In the setup i suggested, now with the new firmware, I was curious to how that, b0 in 720p or 1080p using a toro for scanlines would compare against a framemeister in 720p with Scanlines. Not even necessarily just limited to 240p sources. 480i de interlaced as well

I've only read that The framemeister has a better picture.Than the xrgb 3 especially in regards to 480i, but I don't believe I've ever seen actual image comparisons