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[Cagar]

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[Shepardus]

Summary of conditions for entering the route:

Well we finally got it all done now more or less:

Full Hyper and no deaths when final silo is scrolling in, the MOMENT laser can hit it.
Only 1 silo ran over by a tank or left alone if none get ran over by tanks(including the 1st silo which can't get ran over).

I'm pretty certain that there is no more left to figure out.

If I understand correctly a silo is "left alone" if you kill the tank before it hits the silo, and don't bother finishing off the silo afterwards.

You can die after the condition is checked and it doesn't matter if you miss a bee even if you reveal it, though there are plenty of other reasons not to do that anyway. You can also use your hyper after the condition is checked.

Staying on the Ura route requires not dying to the midbosses. Bees do not matter, though again, you should still be collecting them.

Reentering the route after Stage 1 requires ???

[Erppo]

Reentering the route after Stage 1 requires ???

Full bees from (any) two stages. You probably shouldn't die during that either but you shouldn't die anyway. I think dying at bosses doesn't fail it.

[Emuser]

Additionally, I just realized that the 1st silo to the left of the 2nd bee doesn't matter at all for the path entry. I'm assuming that maybe this is where we've gotten the ideas of "four silos" when there are clearly five.

I'm not looking into what kicks you out of the route or how to get back in mid-game. At that point I would have restarted anyways so whatever.

[Obscura]

Will Obscura ever make it to stage 4?

Already did in multiple twitch videos.

Also, going to quote this because I still would like an answer; I get that it's a three-way spread, but every time I think "ok, it's aimed" or "ok, it's static and the boss moves some", it does something that surprises me.

DOUBLE EDIT: Also, fuck, are those blue bullets in st 2 boss third form first pattern aimed or fixed (the pattern with the pink swastika spiral)? Every time I think I know, it does something that surprises me.

[Bananamatic]

st2 boss has only 2 forms so we cannot help you there

[Obscura]

http://www.twitch.tv/pbacque/b/622049208

The attack at 13:06 in this vid.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

It's random, so the answer is get good. You really don't need to move much to dodge it anyway.

There's an easy way to cheese most of the attack as well. Can't record it, but it basically goes like this.

Dodge the opening patterns of the boss normally. For the attack after it, there's some randomness, but you want to get close to the boss, but not too close. Hyper it when you're about to get hit and pointblank it during the invincibility which will recharge the hyper fully. You can stream straight down for the blue aimed stuff after it. Due to the hyper pointblanking, the phase will be over soon.

Second phase. Spiral starts from left or right at random then switches to the other. Your Hyper will still be active and will cancel out most or all of the first part of it once it is over. Get on the correct side, then stream slowly while paying attention to the blue bullets and the spiral. You may have to reverse directions occasionally.


Keep in mind that Hyper rank is completely reset between stages during loop 1, so you're not screwing yourself over for later by using a hyper cancel to cheese this.

[Emuser]

Scoring involves hypering with about 50% of your hyper meter filled up going into stage 3 with about 75-70% of your hyper still active in order to increase hits via the max rank hyper carried over from stage 2. Since you'll have 0 hyper rank going into stage 2, you'll hyper the start of the stage, the midboss, shortly into the boss' opener, then the full spread pink attack. Add in any additional time involved in milking the pink spread attack several times. Unfortunately you don't want to hyper the attack mentioned in previous posts above or you may not be able to get a hyper back required for the stage 3 setup, especially without a power ship.

Also, as far as I can see, the attack Obscura asked about is pretty much random.

[Cagar]

The attack with red spiral; just move along between the red lines, only dodging blue. Nothing hard in it

[Obscura]

(Crossposted from the other thread)

Unfortunately the VOD above doesn't show stage 3's midboss to show what you mean. Just to elaborate on this since it's been years and after double check my doubts:

Once a midboss can be hit, you cannot die from that moment until you collect all 9 bees. Technically, they set a flag for denial of staying in the alternate path on the next stage if the x2 multiplier is never met for the final bee on the current stage, which happens upon getting the 9th bee with no deaths from the 1st bee collected to the last. Especially on stage 4, you can die after getting the last bee bonus and still see stage 5's alternate path. Whatever happens across the stages though, even though you may be on the alternate path for the whole first loop, it all must stay within the general Ura loop requirements of 3 bombs max/1 death max/all 45 bees.

I would suggest posting further DFK stuff in the topic Cagar linked above since we have gone on for quite some time in a general thread...

Sorry, the stream was too long, and it got cut off into two vids because twitch sucks. Here's the last 1:20 of it, that hits the midboss:
http://www.twitch.tv/pbacque/b/622049557

But yeah, in that vid, I intentionally died on one of the big tanks in the second half of ST 2, let something like 3 revealed bees pass, continued in stage 3, and still got the Ura midboss.

[Emuser]

I don't know anymore.

I literally have no idea at this point and probably won't bother to figure it out because if you mess up the 1st loop that's most likely a restart anyways

[Obscura]

The requirements for staying on-route in first loop have nothing to do with requirements for Ura second loop, aside from the fact that you have to stay on-route to get to Ura loop.

From what I've seen, Bananamatic is right; on the first loop, you'll stay on Ura as long as you don't die to a Ura midboss.

[Emuser]

http://www.twitch.tv/emuser/c/6073921

Missed 2 bees, 1 uncovered and didn't uncover 1 of them.

[Cagar]

Will Obscura ever make it to stage 4?

Already did in multiple twitch videos.

Also yeah I know you've cleared the game, it was a joke reference to this

I actually ended up needing a continue in stage 3 because I'm playing so badly right now (roflmao)

no harm intended!

[Obscura]

(Pre-post edit: this is in response to ResumeDPosition, Cagar ninja'd me)

It's because you timed out the second midboss instead of killing him. If you time the midboss out, you have to get every bee; if you kill the midboss without dying, you don't.

[Emuser]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO



Seeing how one normally times out the 2nd and 3rd bosses playing for score...this...answers many questions.

[Obscura]

I guess I should post the actual formal rules for non stage-1 Ura stuff:

If on normal route:
-If you pick up every bee in two (consecutive? Not sure on this one) stages, go to Ura on the next stage. Otherwise, stay normal.

If on Ura route:
-If you die to the midboss, next stage is normal
-Else, if you kill the midboss without dying, next stage is Ura
-Else, if you time out the midboss without dying and get every bee, next stage is Ura
-Else, next stage is normal

[Obscura]

I hate to double post, but is there any easy way to verify the info in this FAQ?

http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/663681- ... faqs/65937

It matches what I know about the "non stage 1 Ura" stuff, but it's totally different on the "get there on stage 1" requirement. Also, the bit about revenge lasers being able to kill the Silos, and that counting against you... I don't know how the hell that could possibly even be tested?

EDIT: The theory that three silos need to be killed with full hyper-bar is deconfirmed by my "Warp after Death" vid, since I only got the last two with full hyper in that vid.

[Skykid]

(Pre-post edit: this is in response to ResumeDPosition, Cagar ninja'd me)

It's because you timed out the second midboss instead of killing him. If you time the midboss out, you have to get every bee; if you kill the midboss without dying, you don't.

:Slaps forhead:

I might try to get down to the arcade today and get back on DFK, weird little game that it is.

[Emuser]

Well Obscura, you knowing the conditions for things no one else was sure about seriously took me for a spin. Even though you seem new to DFK, or are you not? At this point I really don't think there's more to uncover that we don't know about.

Also, pretty much anything that applies will be harder in Mame, you should seriously consider getting an Xbox and the port sometime in the future because having spent many credits on the real PCB and playing the port a bit as well, they are almost identical minus one or two tiny spots. Plus Arrange modes that give you more options.

And yes, once I said the same thing you did with the whole "Whoever thought of this deserves to be fired" thing in the older days. I had to practice for a long time before I was consistent when I was playing this more seriously. It wouldn't be a Cave game if getting through the rewarding part of the game wasn't a pain in the ass...

[Obscura]

I'm fairly new to DFK, yeah, but when I was looking up requirements to get into Ura in the first place, I saw several sources with the same list of rules for staying in once you're in.

Also, I was testing a different theory about getting in using a completely unpracticed route, and wished I had recorded it, because it totally shoots the current theory for getting in down:

I died to the first tank, right after killing the first of the "four silos that count", and got the warp. This was a "don't use a hyper at all" method; the exact thing I did was point-blank to get hyper, switch to boost, get the second bee, aura'd the silo, and died to the tank when trying to move back down a bit. Got silos 3 and 4 in time. Suicided to the last tank after silo 4 to speed things up, since I thought I had just fucked it up entirely, and got the warp.

[Emuser]

Son of a bitch,

I'm done trying to figure anything else out with this for a little while.

[Obscura]

I just got a recording.

It's easiest to reproduce this with C-Power.

I think the lives/hyper meter decision is made as soon as *any* three silos are dead, even "the one that doesn't count". Editing/encoding/uploading now.

EDIT: If I'm right on this -- and I think I am -- it means it's actually harder to enter if you accidentally kill "the one that doesn't count", since you have less time to get the meter.

[Obscura]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrC8Z5a ... e=youtu.be

Here's the vid.

EDIT: ResumeDPosition, would you be willing to try the following? I'm curious to know what happens:
Stage 1: Play as normal (EDIT: By "normal", I mean take the Ura route and fight the Ura midboss, with a kill, as you normally would), but miss at least one bee in the second half of the stage
Stage 2: Play as normal. No miss, time out the Ura midboss, get every bee.
Stage 3: Which route do you get?

[Emuser]

Alternate route.

[Obscura]

Cool -- that means the "stay in" checklist is accurate.

Rewatching my last "Warp after death" video (the one with C-Power), where exactly is the hitbox on the tanks to kill the silos? I'm actually not even certain I got the second of the "silos that count", which makes the warp after death even more inexplicable.

[Skykid]

Just want to rub salt in the wound by saying i went to the arcade yesterday and triggered the Ura on my first attempt (but not my second!).

I don't know for sure where the tank hitboxes trigger the silos, but I know it seems very early - as if the silos have a wider hitbox for tanks than other objects. They seem to explode at a whisper of contact, so get up the screen and take em out early.