UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

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Teufel_in_Blau
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UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Teufel_in_Blau »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... rules.html
Men accused of date rape will need to convince police that a woman consented to sex as part of a major change in the way sex offences are investigated.
The ability to consent to sex should also be questioned where the complainant has mental health problems, learning difficulties or was asleep or unconscious at the time of the alleged attack, she said.
Next time you meet a girl in the club ask her beforehand if she has dyslexia or else you might be in for a rude surprise.

What the hell is going on in the UK? Facesitting is banned, Page 3 is gone and now this. Why are you hating anything sex related so much? There is more to life than beer and football.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Eaglet »

This is beyond retarded.
Faith in humanity decreasing by each passing day.

Haven't experienced any situation like it myself but I've heard a lot of stories about people dipping their dick in crazy and having to suffer the consequences afterwards.
Scary shit.
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soprano1
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by soprano1 »

I thought Page 3 being gone was just a publicity stunt?
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Immryr
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Immryr »

wow...... and I'm saying that to your responses, not the legislation.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by rancor »

No need to be the shmups white knight / SJW - there aren't any females here. :roll:

Bring on the sex-bots / virtual reality. It can't happen soon enough.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by SuperPang »

Immryr wrote:wow...... and I'm saying that to your responses, not the legislation.
Indeed. :shock:
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Immryr
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Immryr »

i'm in no way a sjw. if you take a look at rape statistics, both in terms of how many don't get reported and the conviction rate, you will be appalled. it's clear that something drastic needs to change.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Acid King »

Eaglet wrote:This is beyond retarded.
Faith in humanity decreasing by each passing day.

Haven't experienced any situation like it myself but I've heard a lot of stories about people dipping their dick in crazy and having to suffer the consequences afterwards.
Scary shit.
I don't know how it is where you live, but in Amerikkka we have a rape epidemic on college campuses that rivals the war in the Congo. Really, what you teathuglican conservocrat rape culturizers and sexual assaultpologists don't understand is that rape and sexual assault are special crimes and people who are accused of them have no "rights" (a concept developed by WHITE MEN) and do not deserve a "presumption of innocence". Eyewitnesses have been shown time and again to be incredibly reliable and are in no way influenced by the noble police. Prosecutors are paragons of virtue and would never, say, withhold exculpatory evidence just to get a conviction. I bid you good day, sir!
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Lordstar
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Lordstar »

soprano1 wrote:I thought Page 3 being gone was just a publicity stunt?
YUP! pretty much just a reason to piss eveeyone off and have the fems blog to death about how they won the war... just a scam to sell papers.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Doin' good until that totally irrelevant Science mag link. You think a victim isn't witness to their own rape? And of all the statistics swirling around out there, one of the few that seems to be worth a damn is that most accounts are legitimate.

Presumption of innocence is a legal issue; doesn't mean people on the street have to believe it.

But really, what's most disturbing here is that a lawfully wed man and wife can't have a sit down, he push his crack into her nose, and then sell it on the Internet, at least not in the UK. That's just marital privilege!
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by sven666 »

clearly, its a good time to be gay!
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Acid King »

Ed Oscuro wrote:Doin' good until that totally irrelevant Science mag link. You think a victim isn't witness to their own rape? And of all the statistics swirling around out there, one of the few that seems to be worth a damn is that most accounts are legitimate.
I don't know how you jump from "eyewitness accounts are not always accurate" to "rape victims aren't witnesses".
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by drauch »

I can tell this is going to be another A+ thread!
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Acid King wrote:I don't know how you jump from "eyewitness accounts are not always accurate" to "rape victims aren't witnesses".
So you were just trolling then?

Pretty ironic to see news about a UK film classification move targeting mostly feminists and female performers in porn turned into an anti-feminist soapbox.
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BryanM
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by BryanM »

Immryr wrote:i'm in no way a sjw.
By MRA's standards, you definitely are. Embrace it like I have and realize there is no higher compliment these guys can give you. It means you've moved on from being 13/being a virgin/being cheated on/etc.

The bleeding heart hippy is a strawman. The SJW is the guy who goes "Hey guys. The photo of the dead naked lady. Could you maybe refrain from photoshopping her as 'alive' with fluids on her? No? Oh well.."
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broken harbour
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by broken harbour »

1) This thread will turn ugly/stupid real quick, I have no idea why people bring these things up on a forum about video games.

2) I think the reason people find this law is scary is that it opens up all sorts of potential for abuse. It sounds like, if a woman decides to accuse a guy of rape, he's automatically guilty unless he can prove he didn't. How does he do that? Video tape her consent on his phone? Have her sign a waiver? And if the guy can't produce that kind of evidence, then what? He goes to jail? Has anyone here ever had a girlfriend that didn't take a breakup well, and then maybe said stuff to friends or family that maybe wasn't true? Now she can just go to the police, accuse him of rape and boom, he's guilty by default. It seems crazy.

* Disclaimer, I have no law degree, so I could be completely wrong about everything I just said.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Mortificator »

A lot of women don't even accuse their actual rapists of rape, due to the backlash and the BS the legal system puts them through, so I don't foresee an epidemic of them accusing non-rapists.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by PAPER/ARTILLERY »

Just to clear up a few things:

Facesitting isn't banned. The production of porn depicting facesitting is. You can still watch facesitting porn and sit on people's faces as much as you like.

Page 3 is still very much a thing.

And we hate anything sex-related because we're all prudish brits obvs.

And honestly I think this new guidance is a step in the right direction. I know several victims of rape that never went to the police because they knew exactly how they would be treated, dragged through the courts, shamed, not taken seriously. And no conviction would be forthcoming. I know others who did go to the police and were told "well it's basically your word against his so there's nothing we can do" or were treated as hysterical liars. Shit needs to change.
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Immryr
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Immryr »

broken harbour wrote:1) This thread will turn ugly/stupid real quick, I have no idea why people bring these things up on a forum about video games.

2) I think the reason people find this law is scary is that it opens up all sorts of potential for abuse. It sounds like, if a woman decides to accuse a guy of rape, he's automatically guilty unless he can prove he didn't. How does he do that? Video tape her consent on his phone? Have her sign a waiver? And if the guy can't produce that kind of evidence, then what? He goes to jail? Has anyone here ever had a girlfriend that didn't take a breakup well, and then maybe said stuff to friends or family that maybe wasn't true? Now she can just go to the police, accuse him of rape and boom, he's guilty by default. It seems crazy.

* Disclaimer, I have no law degree, so I could be completely wrong about everything I just said.
how is that any different to women who have been raped having to prove they didn't want to have sex, all while essentially being made to look like a slut and having her whole sexually history dragged through the courts? at least this might convince more women to actually come forward and press charges when they've been raped. and better yet, maybe some of the rapists might get convicted.
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broken harbour
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by broken harbour »

Mortificator wrote:I don't foresee an epidemic of them accusing non-rapists.
But, at least how I read it, gives them the ability to do just that, that's kinda scary, it's almost too far in the other direction.

It probably won't result in that, but damn would you hate to be the one guy it happens to.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Ed Oscuro »

The problem with the "fake rape claim" argument is that it bears no relationship to what we know about the vast majority of cases. It's nice to respect that in theory, but the truth is that the vast majority of persons accused of rape are, in fact, rapists; furthermore, they very rarely come in for any punishment.

What AcidKing has said is basically irrelevant to cases like this, except for one wrinkle. The only thing that has changed in UK law, as I understand this, is that police now will interview the accused. This is pretty much how any other investigation goes; it's not clear to me why this is so remarkable in this case. So that basically leaves your standard questions for accused and defendants - how, when, or if to reveal one's story of innocence. Unfortunately the issue of whether or not to talk to the police is always going to be present, so any accused person should obtain legal advice how to proceed.

"Presumption of innocence" is a red herring here because it holds right through any potential trial. Nobody has ever believed that police investigating a complaint must investigate believing an accused is innocence - presumption of innocence describes the reluctance of the state to pass an official verdict on the defendant. The principle does not say "thou shalt not investigate because that would be presuming guilt!" Of course the police presume guilt.

The whole kerfluffle reminds me of nothing so much as the bitching by some extreme right-wingers that honorable people were being put on trial for defensive gun use. I'm sorry, but society (and the deceased) has a compelling interest in making sure that a person who shoots another person defensively did so reasonably. If you can't present a good case, with the help of an attorney if need be, then you are naturally going to have a somewhat tougher time in a court of your peers. This doesn't come close to guaranteeing guilt, and it's not incompatible with the view that persons shouldn't be held accountable for crimes they didn't commit, that men shouldn't be jailed for rapes they didn't commit, or that private firearms ownership can be a good thing.

Honestly, if this was about pedos under Big Ben we would all get it. Russell Brand gets it exactly right:
“It’s not for me to judge whether the claims against Lord Brittan are true, it’s for the police to investigate these claims as they continue to do so,” Watson said. “But I believe the people I’ve spoken to are sincere.”

“Well, I think it is for me to judge,” Brand counters, before launching into his dissection of the reported events.
Fuck "presumption of innocence" being used to silence people from using the brain they have to figure out tough questions like: Is it good to have sex with a woman you've only just met at a party and who is too drunk to say yes? no? barf?
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Some-Mist »

slowly shifting towards sex as a rich person privilege. imagine in the future, having to pay a lawyer to obtain documentation of consent before having sex... or otherwise fearing potential legal repercussions in the event the female changes her mind after..
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Bananamatic »

sex is for losers anyways
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Lordstar »

Mortificator wrote:A lot of women don't even accuse their actual rapists of rape, due to the backlash and the BS the legal system puts them through, so I don't foresee an epidemic of them accusing non-rapists.
And you never hear about any guys getting raped ever. By women or men. its an ugly ugly thing unfortunate that its such a thing is taboo to talk about.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

drunk sex is now rape but only the dude goes to jail
Double standards are the hip new thing, I guess.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Teufel_in_Blau »

Lordstar wrote: And you never hear about any guys getting raped ever. By women or men. its an ugly ugly thing unfortunate that its such a thing is taboo to talk about.
It's because a man in the UK can't get raped. I mean it. It's not possible according the law.
Unlike other jurisdictions, such as Australia, much of the US, and many Western countries, 'rape' in the UK is not a gender neutral offense: it is an offense that can only be committed by a male against a person (female or male). Also the UK has not to date followed the trend in many Western countries of classifying acts other than penetration with a penis (e.g. penetration with an object, finger) as rape. These must be prosecuted under other statutes (e.g. Sexual assault, Assault by penetration).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_stati ... ed_Kingdom
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Indeed, where are all those poor guys who got in danger of pregnancy by a woman complaining about their bad treatment? Even in our pretty crusty bunch of anti-rape-crusaders you know that there's probably not many whose interest in stopping rape investigations is based on wanting to prevent unwanted sex. Spare me the crap - the attitude of worrying feverishly about fake rape allegations is all about wanting to have sex without thought for consequences.

It is a shame that the guidance itself seems to enshrine a double standard, but that double standard is based on the overwhelming statistics of what happens in a typical rape. The underlying assumption that a man can't be raped by a woman - swing and a miss Teufel - sits right in line with men's prejudices; this is a problem that quite obviously was brought on by our fellow men in Britlandshire. If anything, this prosecutorial guidance seems to set a precedence in the direction of making this standard for all cases. The question of whether a woman can rape a man (yes, of course) is a separate case entirely, which requires that men need to collectively gather their senses and guide the legislation firmly to covering that issue.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Eaglet »

While certain womens victimisation and unjust treatment by the legal system is appalling, legislation like this is the complete opposite of what should be done to treat it.
Kind of like how the youth affiliation of one of Sweden's governmental parties were handing out fliers outside of a music festival collectively accusing all males of being potential rapists.
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Sex is supposed to be one of, if not the, most natural activities one can and should engage in.
Legislating against it in such a stupid way as this is detrimental to all of humanity and our collective spirit, in my opinion.
I don't know what should be done to prevent rape. It is a problem that's been with us for as long as anybody can remember and see.
I do believe a proper upbringing and collective awareness is a good start though.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Eaglet wrote:Sex is supposed to be one of, if not the, most natural activities one can and should engage in.
Again, typical "there's no consequences" thinking on display here. Lots of "natural" things are quite appalling in fact. We call sex with fifteen-year-olds pedophilia, despite that once being somewhere around the average age of childbearing for humans - women, though we'd call them girls now. We can use the brain sitting on our shoulders to spare a little thought for each other and partners.

In other countries this move means nothing. It's seemingly bad because men set up a system where men couldn't be raped by women, according to the law, and so they (or more like their modern descendants) have that decision to blame for the sex disparity in prosecution here. As far as the headline policy itself, it just looks like it's asking police to get a better view of events. Nothing sinister in that, and your presumption of innocence isn't touched.
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Re: UK: Men must prove a woman said 'Yes'

Post by d3vak »

Feminists...Damn them.
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