Recording from DVDO iScan VP20 / VP30 with ABT102

[Galgomite]

This forum and Fudoh's website has taught me a lot about processing old school video games. My real job however is a video editor and videographer. After reading about so many scalers and enjoying my XRGB Mini, I picked up a DVDO VP20 with the ABT 102 daughter card. Not for gaming, but for upscaling old 480i home movies to archive as 480p or 720p. My problem is, while I can get a picture on my TVs with no problem, I'm 100% unsuccessful at recording the HDMI signal. I own both a Hauppauge HD PVR Rocket (same hardware as the others but USB powered) and an Atomos Ninja HDMI recorder. Neither device shows an uncorrupted signal. I've experimented with toggling HDCP and sync settings on the VP20 though I don't understand what sync does.
I make an effort to not repeat peoples' questions and I can't find much info on this. Does anyone record from a VP20/ VP30? What devices do you use? What's your configuration? Any suggestions of things to try?

Thanks to anyone with a suggestion.

[Fudoh]

unlock the output refresh rate option and set it manually to 59.94Hz instead. Enabling the VCR mode essentially does the same.

[Galgomite]

unlock the output refresh rate option and set it manually to 59.94Hz instead. Enabling the VCR mode essentially does the same.

Thanks Fudoh, I've unlocked and set to VCR mode. The output config shows 59.94 but I don't know how to set it manually beyond this. So far I'm not getting a change. The HD PVR receives a picture only intermittently and the Atomos Ninja shows a distorted image. Any other thoughts?

[Fudoh]

Weird. Maybe your colorspace output options are off. Can you verify what yours is set to ? Depending on the recording device RGB might work, YCbCr in 4:2:2 should be safe, YCbCr 4:4:4 likely won't work.

I don't know the two recording devices you're using, but I've used the DVDOs with a bunch or recorders and they always work like a charm.

[Galgomite]

Weird. Maybe your colorspace output options are off. Can you verify what yours is set to ? Depending on the recording device RGB might work, YCbCr in 4:2:2 should be safe, YCbCr 4:4:4 likely won't work.

I don't know the two recording devices you're using, but I've used the DVDOs with a bunch or recorders and they always work like a charm.

I'm trying the 3 different color spaces again but there's no apparent difference. I never anticipated a scaler to be a problem. Every TV shows the image perfectly while both capture devices snub it. I would have thought that with HDMI you either get a signal or you don't. If there's some trick to disabling HDCP beyond just using the menus I'd love to hear it.

[Galgomite]

Weird. Maybe your colorspace output options are off. Can you verify what yours is set to ? Depending on the recording device RGB might work, YCbCr in 4:2:2 should be safe, YCbCr 4:4:4 likely won't work.

I don't know the two recording devices you're using, but I've used the DVDOs with a bunch or recorders and they always work like a charm.

Thus far I've found only one way to get a capturable image: running HDMI from the VP20 through the XRGB Mini. Not practical to say the least:(

Does no one with a VP20/30/50 do any captures with a Hauppauge? I thought it was the most popular device out there!

[Fudoh]

running HDMI from the VP20 through the XRGB Mini.

does this work with the Mini set to HDMI passthrough mode ? If yes, then it might simply be a problem with the signal levels, maybe a borderline cable....

Hauppauge has fallen back behind Avermedia and Elgato for live h.264 Encoders. And if you want to record uncompressed you got Blackmagic or the USB3 devices from Avermedia, Elgato, Micomsoft or Startech.

[zakk]

I have a VP30 and I've had issues with some HDMI capture devices ONLY if I use the latest firmware for the VP30. I never figured out exactly what the issue was, since reverting to an older firmware fixed it. I've never tried an HDMI based hauppauge, but I do remember it working fine with a component one.

[Glossectomy]

I'm sorry this is slightly off topic, but I figured this was a good place to ask instead of starting a new thread.

I picked up a vp30 off Craigslist for $50 today. I wanted to know if I could use a scart to BNC cable and run it into the BNC inputs on the vp30 and have it work with my 240p consoles. My cables don't have separate horizontal and vertical sync and I didnt know if this would be a problem. I picked it up not knowing anything about it so please bear with me.

Also curious is a remote is mandatory with these.

[Fudoh]

you don't need a remote.

The BNC input is for 480p (31khz) and higher only. To connect 240p & 480i RGBs sources you use the component inputs along with the white sync input. In other words, you usually use a Scart to 4x RCA breakout (or 6x with audio).

[Glossectomy]

you don't need a remote.

The BNC input is for 480p (31khz) and higher only. To connect 240p & 480i RGBs sources you use the component inputs along with the white sync input. In other words, you usually use a Scart to 4x RCA breakout (or 6x with audio).

Thank you for the quick response. So BNC to rca adapters on the scart to BNC should work just fine?

I also have a db15 to BNC breakout I can hook up to the BNC inputs I suppose. I believe the h and v cables are black and white. Is there a standard color for which is which?

[Lord of Pirates]

you don't need a remote.

The BNC input is for 480p (31khz) and higher only. To connect 240p & 480i RGBs sources you use the component inputs along with the white sync input. In other words, you usually use a Scart to 4x RCA breakout (or 6x with audio).

Thank you for the quick response. So BNC to rca adapters on the scart to BNC should work just fine?

I also have a db15 to BNC breakout I can hook up to the BNC inputs I suppose. I believe the h and v cables are black and white. Is there a standard color for which is which?

Yes. I would guess black is vertical and white is horizontal.

[Fudoh]

Na, I even have cables from the same company and they mix up white and black all the time. You just have to try.

[Galgomite]

running HDMI from the VP20 through the XRGB Mini.

does this work with the Mini set to HDMI passthrough mode ? If yes, then it might simply be a problem with the signal levels, maybe a borderline cable....

Hauppauge has fallen back behind Avermedia and Elgato for live h.264 Encoders. And if you want to record uncompressed you got Blackmagic or the USB3 devices from Avermedia, Elgato, Micomsoft or Startech.

Good questions. Passthrough mode does not work, no.

Is there a $40 "scaler" that could solve my problem without noticeable degradation (inputting from VP20 and outputting to capture device in same resolution) and allow me to use my Mini for better things?

Off-topic:
I agree that the Rocket's specs are outdated, but Hauppauge is potentially a good choice for my particular uses.
1) It doesn't rely upon a strong PC like the (otherwise superior) Elgato HD60.
2) It doesn't require a computer at all to work, which is a big advantage to me.
3) I'd prefer high bitrate options but don't need them for this purpose.
4) I experienced zero audio sync problems with the original HD PVR over two hours.
5) I was able to drop the HD PVR's .m2ts files into Toast and burn blu-ray discs without reencoding (I haven't yet tried this with the rocket but am optimistic).

[Fudoh]

I see that the Rocket still got analogue inputs (via a MiniDin breakout cable). Your best is probably be a cheap HDMI to Component converter between the VP20 and the recordering device.

[Galgomite]

I see that the Rocket still got analogue inputs (via a MiniDin breakout cable). Your best is probably be a cheap HDMI to Component converter between the VP20 and the recordering device.

I think you're right. I may just try the Elgato first. Meanwhile if it isn't difficult to change the firmware, I might try that too.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Glossectomy]

So I just got home with mine and opened it up.



Good thing right?

[Fudoh]

Sure, the card alone is $100. If you want to use it (faster processing, better 480i handling, but no more 240p recognition), make sure it's seated properly. It tends to get loose in transit.

[Glossectomy]

Sure, the card alone is $100. If you want to use it (faster processing, better 480i handling, but no more 240p recognition), make sure it's seated properly. It tends to get loose in transit.

So if I have it installed it will no longer accept 240p?

Let me ask this, does this or a mini deinterlace better? I already have a mini, and mostly just picked this up on a whim to mess with. If it deinterlaces better than a mini I'll use this for ps2/gamecube stuff and the mini for everything else.

[Fudoh]

It still accepts 240p, but the signal gets treated like 480i. You get to choose your deinterlacing mode.

In standard deinterlacing mode (with the ABT102 installed), the VP delivers smoother deinterlacing, which is certainly better suited for movies and certain videogame material. The Mini's 480i deinterlacing is more detailed, it keeps the overall look much more pixelated.

[Josh128]

It still accepts 240p, but the signal gets treated like 480i. You get to choose your deinterlacing mode.

In standard deinterlacing mode (with the ABT102 installed), the VP delivers smoother deinterlacing, which is certainly better suited for movies and certain videogame material. The Mini's 480i deinterlacing is more detailed, it keeps the overall look much more pixelated.

Question about the 480i deinterlacing on both the ABT-102 and the Framemeister-- for 60 fps sources, does either give the option to upscale/interpolate each 480i field and display it as its own frame, rather than trying to merge each field into a single frame as most TVs do? The Panasonic X60 I had would do the former, which, despite showing a slight shimmer like a real 480i display, is more looks much better in my opinion for motion in 60 fps 480i games than the latter technique.

[Fudoh]

Both give you both options. Standard mode on the Mini takes 2 fields and deinterlaces them into a frame. Each field is used twice of course (otherwise you wouldn't get 60 frames from 60 fields). The Game modes on the Mini just use a single field. But since you don't gain any speed (the lag remains the same), there isn't much sense in using those modes unless you have very specific reasons (and content).

Same on the ABT102. Game1 uses a single field only. Game 2 and normal video deinterlacing modes use 2 fields each. Contrary to the Framemeister, the ABT's Game1 is considerably faster though. This way it can make sense to actually use it (although it doesn't look very good).

The problem with both is that they apply heavy interpolation on the single field modes. The ABT102 is hardly watchable. The Mini's kinda ok. I think what you're looking for is actually the XRGB-3 480i deinterlacing where the lines of a single field are really just doubled to get a full frame.

[Galgomite]

I thought I'd update on what's happening with video capture from the DVDO VP20 in case someone needs this info in the future. I was unable to capture via HDMI with a Hauppauge HD PVR Rocket and even an Atomos Ninja (a fairly high end video capture device). The Elgato HD60, however, records perfectly fine without any issues. My suspicion is now that the problem is with HDMI 1.3. I own only two older HDMI devices, the DVDO VP20 and also my Toshiba RD-XS52 DVD recorder, and neither of them could be captured to anything I tried except the HD60 (even with HDCP suppressed). And so I'm buying a DVDO Edge, which sports HDMI 1.3 output. My guess is that 1.3 does something different with HDCP, and the problem will be solved.

[mensinhl]

Hello,

I got same problem from my vp30 record to Avermedia EZ recorder 130.

The EZ recorder 130 dont support the resolution of VP30.

So i need the timing values for the VP30.

Please any one can help me?

Best Regards,
Mensinhl

[Galgomite]

My suspicion is now that the problem is with HDMI 1.3. I own only two older HDMI devices, the DVDO VP20 and also my Toshiba RD-XS52 DVD recorder, and neither of them could be captured to anything I tried except the HD60 (even with HDCP suppressed). And so I'm buying a DVDO Edge, which sports HDMI 1.3 output. My guess is that 1.3 does something different with HDCP, and the problem will be solved.

Well, I was wrong. Even with HDCP defeated (something I can find in-menu on VP20 but not Edge), no luck recording with any device other than the HD60.

Mensinhl I'm sorry I don't know the answer to your question.

[mensinhl]

Hi,

My friend told me that instead of using hdmi to hdmi scaler(which will lose quality) better to use hdmi matrix.

So i want to know if you have a hdmi matrix and try it with VP30 and EZ130 or any avermedia recorder.

Otherwise, i need to buy one and try it but i dont know if it will work or not.

Please reply me as soon as possible.

Best Regards,
Mensinhl

[Fudoh]

What strikes me as weird is that you cannot even get an analogue to HDMI converter (e.g. component to HDMI) to work. I've spoken to a buddy who used to own a VP30 with a blown HDMI output and he was using a cheap component to HDMI converter just fine. He recorded some videos using an Avermedia Portable.

Maybe you should retry that. And remember that you might have to unlock the output refresh rate in order to get a converter to work.

A HDMI matrix can be hit or miss, depends on what the matrix is doing with the signal. A cheap active splitter like the ViewHD might already do the same thing. I just mentioned it since my DVDOs wouldn't work at all on my Sony TV, but did once run through a matrix.

[mensinhl]

Hi,

I have tried this hdmi splitter - OREI HD-102 1x2 1 Port HDMI Powered Splitter Ver 1.3 but it still dont works on EZ 130 with VP30.

Here is another settings that i have tried.

01.- PS2 - component cable - VP30 - Atlona Hdmi2Hdmi scaler - EZ 130. Works but the quality is not good.
02.- PS2 - component cable - VP30 - All-In-1 RCA CVSB VGA Component Video YPbPr HDMI To HDMI Converter Switch - EZ 130. Works but still the quality is not good.

So i want to know if someone has tried HDMI MATRIX to any avermedia capture device.

Please reply me as soon as possible.

Best Regards,
Mensinhl

[Galgomite]

Hi,

I have tried this hdmi splitter - OREI HD-102 1x2 1 Port HDMI Powered Splitter Ver 1.3 but it still dont works on EZ 130 with VP30.

Here is another settings that i have tried.

01.- PS2 - component cable - VP30 - Atlona Hdmi2Hdmi scaler - EZ 130. Works but the quality is not good.
02.- PS2 - component cable - VP30 - All-In-1 RCA CVSB VGA Component Video YPbPr HDMI To HDMI Converter Switch - EZ 130. Works but still the quality is not good.

So i want to know if someone has tried HDMI MATRIX to any avermedia capture device.

Please reply me as soon as possible.

Best Regards,
Mensinhl

I don't have an avermedia device but the Elgato HD60 captures perfectly and won't require another scaler/matrix to do so.