XRGB-3

[Laughingman.s9]

Using an older XRGB (not Mini) with a genuine VGA>Component transcoder on a Sony W set almost defeats the 'XRGB+DVDO' combos.
And that's just for a portion of the price of a DVDO vp30+ABT or vp50Pro assuming you get the transcoder used (well even new it's cheaper).
I'd say go for the combo only if you don't own a Sony W (but you do so.. )

Or thrash everything and get a Mini indeed.
An old XRGB+transcoder will have the edge in lag (2ms), while the Mini easily wins in picture quality (but it's lag is 24ms).

That's it im sold, I'm going to get a transcoder. What I'll probably end up doing if the image really is on par or better than using the gefen is using the xrgb transcoder combo on my Sony w series TV but removing my dreamcast from the xrgb and plugging straight into the gefen and getting a hanzo or toro later on for scanlines


Separate question but anyone know what adapter I would need to plug in either d terminal or component cables into the jp21 game in port on the xrgb 3? Heard the port tuns cleaner than the others

[kel]

Yep that's the one, the (LD450). I know it's getting a bit old now but it's not a bad set for what it is. It's 480i deinterlacing is also quite good too, not a massive difference from the Framemeister or DVDO IMHO.

Indeed it was one of the first to be decent for video games, even consoles, I was impressed with the handling of 480i as well.
It also automatically overscanned the PS2's signal to eliminate useless borders.
Very configurable, only lacked a tiny bit lower lag and better contrast/blacks of course.

Compared to the LG a Sony W is different in that is shows a more precise and 'truer to the source' picture, with better quality sharpness and details control. Also overscan control that makes sense, which is very nice.
There's a stark difference in colors and contrast though, since it's a VA panel, colors feel less 'natural' and viewing angles are narrower.
The main attraction of course is the super low lag.

Also a Sony W is completely different from a plasma of course, but you buy a Sony W more for its competence than viewing pleasure.
If you can get a 32W70 or 42W70 at a reasonable price over 2015 it cannot be a bad purchase.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep and eye out for any good deals in the future although I have my hopes set on a BVM next so my old faithful LG might have to last for a bit longer yet.

[Xyga]

Using an older XRGB (not Mini) with a genuine VGA>Component transcoder on a Sony W set almost defeats the 'XRGB+DVDO' combos.
And that's just for a portion of the price of a DVDO vp30+ABT or vp50Pro assuming you get the transcoder used (well even new it's cheaper).
I'd say go for the combo only if you don't own a Sony W (but you do so.. )

Or thrash everything and get a Mini indeed.
An old XRGB+transcoder will have the edge in lag (2ms), while the Mini easily wins in picture quality (but it's lag is 24ms).

That's it im sold, I'm going to get a transcoder. What I'll probably end up doing if the image really is on par or better than using the gefen is using the xrgb transcoder combo on my Sony w series TV but...

Again I don't know how it will compare to the Gefen since I've never owned one, maybe it won't be as 'sharp', but I can tell the Sony W's ability as a scaler is as follows;
- better scaling quality than a DVDO, with good sharpness and details control, 3 levels of overscan that are enough to eliminate borders in most cases, low lag.
- but no frame-locking (to reduce judder), nor individual zoom/pan controls.

Basically buying a Sony W is like buying a competent Display + Scaler bundle (Don't forget it's not the transcoder that will work, it's the Sony).
So it's more rational and cost effective to make use of that good scaler part first, and the best way to do so is trough a transcoder.
This way you will know what the Sony W is really capable of, and if you don't like it in the end, a real transcoder (like the Audio Authority & Crescendo Systems) is an easy resell since it's an endangered species.

[Fudoh]

- but no frame-locking (to reduce judder)

what exactly do you mean by that ? Have you experienced the component input to be more picky about "on-spec" refresh rates than the HDMI ports ?

[Xyga]

- but no frame-locking (to reduce judder)

what exactly do you mean by that ? Have you experienced the component input to be more picky about "on-spec" refresh rates than the HDMI ports ?

Yup. Slightly more judder in some cases, but that's with modded PAL consoles and arcade boards.
For instance a modded PAL MD2 in '60Hz' through the XRGB+AA versus XRGB+frame-locked DVDO, shows more judder (more frequent hiccups).

[Fudoh]

ic, thanks! Would be interesting to check the same by adding a cheap component to HDMI converter to the XRGB+AA chain.

[Xyga]

Oh yeah didn't think about that, I'll try one of those days and report.

[Laughingman.s9]

I've chained the XRGB-3 signal into the Extron before sending it to the Scaler Plus or Optoma HD3000 and I have the same exact same issue (super bright whites / washed out picture) with transcoding 480p Wii signals. I use the Wii mostly for Retroarch emulation at 240p (I generally play Wii games on Dolphin at 1080p ) so I set the system resolution to 480i.

An Extron with H and V adjustments and a VGA to component transcoder would definitely be solid pick ups.

Did you manage to fix this? Because I also have this problem on my pspgo when set to progressive. Would running my component 480p signals into the game in port fix this? I understand the wii compinent signal is a mess to begin with but I feel like I can still save my psp go lol

[SGGG2]

Not IIRC, I use the Game In port. I'll see if I can mess around with it in the this week or the next. For the PSP I'd recommend trying either B0 or going straight into the TV.

[Fudoh]

For the PSP I'd recommend trying either B0

of course, the XRGB-3 has a great zooming mode just for the PSP. Works very nice.

[Laughingman.s9]

An XRGB3/Optoma combo is TOO sharp on a good sized LCD, looks fine on smaller one or a big plasma. If the mini had a 480i field doubling mode like the 3 has I'd have upgraded already. At this point there's probably another XRGB in the pipeline...

I'm waiting for scaler with 4K support and pixel shaders.

The drawing method actually makes a difference? Is it only for 480i content? Or maybe just in b0 mode? I honestly see zero difference when I switch between field and frame

[Laughingman.s9]

For the PSP I'd recommend trying either B0

of course, the XRGB-3 has a great zooming mode just for the PSP. Works very nice.

I'll wait til I get my transcoder to test this, with the gefen combo b1 with scanlines and psp in interlace and 4:3 is the only thing that looks decent, there's too much noise in the signal via d1. I use a powered component switchbox and the pspgo is charging in its cradle as I play. Guess it's too much for the xrgb, at least in the d terminal ports

What adapter do I need to run my component switchbox in the game in port?

[SGGG2]

480i in B1 doubles each field with alternating scanlines which simulates the flickering of an interlaced display, 240p is straight line doubled. They have a distinctly different look and feel.

The XRGB-3 has two firmware modes which are accessed under: ADVANCED > FPGA SELECT > confirm, then power cycle.

B1: line or field doubling (VGA only) and B0: scaling mode (VGA or DVI), which has a dedicated PSP zoom setting. Scanlines (480i or 240p) are only available in B1. B0 looks really good at 1080p, but the compatibility with TV's is spotty at best and most people here prefer to use scanlines for 240p material, myself included. Some 480p games (Gradius V, for example) look amazing with B0 @ 1080p (if you somehow manage to take care of the noise issue).

To run YUV in the Game In port you need a JPN-21 to Component adapter. One comes with the XRGB, not sure where you can buy it.

There can only be one cable plugged into either the VGA or DVI output, but not both, the XRGB won't work unless one or the other's removed.

[Laughingman.s9]

480i in B1 doubles each field with alternating scanlines which simulates the flickering of an interlaced display, 240p is straight line doubled. They have a distinctly different look and feel.

The XRGB-3 has two firmware modes which are accessed under: ADVANCED > FPGA SELECT > confirm, then power cycle.

Just so we're clear, we're both talking about the drawing method under screen+ I think right? The one where you can choose between field or frame?

Because that's what I was talking about.

[Fudoh]

drawing method under screen+

never found out what this really does.

[SGGG2]

Just so we're clear, we're both talking about the drawing method under screen+ I think right? The one where you can choose between field or frame? Because that's what I was talking about.

No. AFAIK that doesn't do anything. Firmware switching's achieved with the instructions in my last post.

[plc268]

For those interested in an english overlay for the remote, I finally posted it on ebay. Same price as my xrgb mini overlay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XRGB-3-English- ... 1464202278

[Edward_Tz]

For those interested in an english overlay for the remote, I finally posted it on ebay. Same price as my xrgb mini overlay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XRGB-3-English- ... 1464202278

Just bought one. Thanks for making these.

Ordering a XRGB 3 tomorrow. So what is better? Using a vga to component or vga to hdmi? Sony W700b TV. Any specific models you guys would recommend that are available in America or at least have 120 volt power supplies?

[Fudoh]

VGA to HDMI will give the exact same quality as if your TV had a physical VGA input (like the older Sony sets). VGA is HDMI is also (much) easier available.

VGA to component is a little bit better since it resolves the full output resolution of the XRGB-3 in B1 (720x480), but it's harder to pick up a proper transcoder these days. By going HDMI you also keep your component input free for 480p component sources.

[Xyga]

Audio Authority 9A60 or 9A60A (sometimes called 09A60) can be found used on eBay at decent prices (with patience).

[Edward_Tz]

VGA to HDMI will give the exact same quality as if your TV had a physical VGA input (like the older Sony sets). VGA is HDMI is also (much) easier available.

VGA to component is a little bit better since it resolves the full output resolution of the XRGB-3 in B1 (720x480), but it's harder to pick up a proper transcoder these days. By going HDMI you also keep your component input free for 480p component sources.

Alright I will look at vga to hdmi.

You said it wont do 720x480. Does that mean I'll have a problem if I hook up a Dreamcast to the xrgb? I assume I wont have issues with the other consoles. I have no idea where I would get a nice quality vga to component transcoder.

To Xyga
I see the Audio Authority one but the guy in the W6 thread seemed to have a nightmare with it. No idea if he ever got it working right.

[Xyga]

It was in issue with the XRGB-3, not the AA.
Usually when people got an isue with the AA it's because they don't know about the potentiometer inside that fixes sync and horizontal position.
Otherwise it's awesome. Full resolution as Fudoh said.

^ which is an issue with the Dreamcast by the way, since the DC actual picture is lower than the signal resolution so the picture looks squeezed a bit.
But for everything else 'VGA', it's awesome.

[Fudoh]

Does that mean I'll have a problem if I hook up a Dreamcast to the xrgb

why would you want to do that in the first place ?

VGA inputs on TVs and monitors usually just see 640x480p. Same for all the cheap VGA to HDMI converters. It's not a big problem. For the XRGB-3 along with low-res inputs you have to look really carefully to see the difference.

I recently set up a Sony W8 along with a XRGB-3 at a friend's house and we tried both. It was his choice to opt for the HDMI solution in the end, so he could connect something else to the component input. Eventually it comes down to the question if you want to start using switches right from the start. His comment just was "if I didn't point out the differences, he wouldn't have seen the the differences on his own"...

[Edward_Tz]

It was in issue with the XRGB-3, not the AA.
Usually when people got an isue with the AA it's because they don't know about the potentiometer inside that fixes sync and horizontal position.
Otherwise it's awesome. Full resolution as Fudoh said.

I think the guy did do that in the thread. That was the problem with the 240p sources, it would be on one side of the TV and with 480p it would be on the other. And he never could get the thing centered.

If you're telling me that maybe that guy did it wrong and it should be able to get centered I'll try one out. If I could at least get the 240p/480i game centered I'd be happy. The 480p games I can route around the xrgb.

Does that mean I'll have a problem if I hook up a Dreamcast to the xrgb

why would you want to do that in the first place ?

VGA inputs on TVs and monitors usually just see 640x480p. Same for all the cheap VGA to HDMI converters. It's not a big problem. For the XRGB-3 along with low-res inputs you have to look really carefully to see the difference.

I recently set up a Sony W8 along with a XRGB-3 at a friend's house and we tried both. It was his choice to opt for the HDMI solution in the end, so he could connect something else to the component input. Eventually it comes down to the question if you want to start using switches right from the start. His comment just was "if I didn't point out the differences, he wouldn't have seen the the differences on his own"...

Just would had been easy to have it go through the xrgb along with the other consoles. But if that causes problems I'll have to find a vga adapter that works with it separately.

[Fudoh]

Technically the XRGB-3 has two VGA inputs, one's a DVI-I for passing through PC signals. The other is a processed multi-purpose VGA input (which I used for RGBs 240p instead). The passthrough input is fine, but you don't want to add processing to 480p inputs. In theory B1 doesn't add much processing to 480p sources, but noise is a problem and you'll overall see a signal degradation.

[Xyga]

It was in issue with the XRGB-3, not the AA.
Usually when people got an isue with the AA it's because they don't know about the potentiometer inside that fixes sync and horizontal position.
Otherwise it's awesome. Full resolution as Fudoh said.

I think the guy did do that in the thread. That was the problem with the 240p sources, it would be on one side of the TV and with 480p it would be on the other. And he never could get the thing centered.

If you're telling me that maybe that guy did it wrong and it should be able to get centered I'll try one out. If I could at least get the 240p/480i game centered I'd be happy. The 480p games I can route around the xrgb.

If you're talking about Sixfortyfive then yes he was trying to play even the 480p/progressive scan games through the XRGB-3, something nobody should try since it's kind of useless (two stages of transcoding) and creates problems.
For 240p/480i he fixed it after I mentioned the potentiometer.
Read the thread again if you don't believe it, it's page 10, or send him a PM so he can confirm. ^^

[Edward_Tz]

Thanks for the advice Fudoh. I wouldn't have a clue without your guides and posts.
I think in one of your other posts you recommended Manhattan vga to hdmi converter? They seem to only be like $60 on Amazon. I'll probably give that one a try and some vga to component. See which one I like best. Figure out the Dreamcast problem later.

If you're talking about Sixfortyfive then yes he was trying to play even the 480p/progressive scan games through the XRGB-3, something nobody should try since it's kind of useless (two stages of transcoding) and creates problems.
For 240p/480i he fixed it after I mentioned the potentiometer.
Read the thread again if you don't believe it, it's page 10, or send him a PM so he can confirm. ^^

I'll take your word. The video he posted he said he wasn't able to get the 240p centered. It was slightly to the left I think he said? I guess he got that fixed though.

[Xyga]

My God just read again or ask him directly and you'll know !
You're doubting because you didn't read the entire story lol.

[Fudoh]

The only difference I found in those VGA to HDMI converters is how they react to increased video levels (which the DC delivers through most VGA boxes). On my XRGB-3 I swapped through half a dozen converters without noticing any difference. You might just pick the cheapest one. I think they start at less than $20 these days.

I the long run you can still get a transcoder. Doesn't hurt to have both options on hand.

[SGGG2]

If you're telling me that maybe that guy did it wrong and it should be able to get centered I'll try one out. If I could at least get the 240p/480i game centered I'd be happy. The 480p games I can route around the xrgb.

You could always pick up an Extron RGB interface (with Horizontal and Vertical adjustments) and place it before the transcoder in the signal chain.