Use Sony BVM-20F1U as PC Monitor?

[SeanAndSuch]

Hi. I have a spare desktop PC I'd like to connect to my Sony BVM. Is this possible?
I'd like to see what emulated arcade games look like on this TV/monitor.
I don't know if I need a special video card or just an adapter or what.
Any help would be appreciated.

[Fudoh]

you need

a) an ArcadeVGA card for 15khz output or
b) a graphics card compatible with soft15khz plus the matching sync adapter or
c) an external 31khz to 15khz converter (Extron Emotia et al).

[SeanAndSuch]

you need

a) an ArcadeVGA card for 15khz output or
b) a graphics card compatible with soft15khz plus the matching sync adapter or
c) an external 31khz to 15khz converter (Extron Emotia et al).

Thanks for the info.
I'm still a bit confused though.
I saw they make ArcadeVGA video cards on this website Ultimarc.com but they aren't in stock.
If I got a card like that or one of the cards compatible with soft15khz, what cables/adapters would be used to connect to the Sony?
BNC to RGB (or DVI)?

[Fudoh]

You need a sync combiner. Arcadeforge UMSA or any Extron RGB interface that will convert RGBHV to RGBs for your needs. Then whatever cable fits your needs, e.g. BNC to BNC for a Extron RGB interface.

[SeanAndSuch]

You need a sync combiner. Arcadeforge UMSA or any Extron RGB interface that will convert RGBHV to RGBs for your needs. Then whatever cable fits your needs, e.g. BNC to BNC for a Extron RGB interface.

Sooooo will this item work along, with some BNC cables?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extron-RGB-580x ... 4897.l4275

[Fudoh]

It will help you convert RGBHV to RGBs, but you still need to get your card to output in 15khz using soft15khz.

[SeanAndSuch]

It will help you convert RGBHV to RGBs, but you still need to get your card to output in 15khz using soft15khz.

Thanks for helping me with this.

If I get an ArcadeVGA 5000 card:
- do I still need a sync combiner?
- do I still need soft15khz software?

[SeanAndSuch]

Can anyone help shed some light on this?
The card is ordered (ArcadeVGA 5000).
I already have a female SCART cable coming from the Sony monitor.
Is there an RGB (from ArcadeVGA card) to SCART (male) cable I could use?
And do I still need a sync combiner?
Thanks in advance.

[Ed Oscuro]

Is there an RGB (from ArcadeVGA card) to SCART (male) cable I could use?

c) an external 31khz to 15khz converter (Extron Emotia et al).

That equipment is required, not just a simple cable.

Kind of wondering how this will look compared to just plugging into a simple VGA CRT, but with the BVM you're good to go for real RGB devices too.

[SeanAndSuch]

Is there an RGB (from ArcadeVGA card) to SCART (male) cable I could use?

c) an external 31khz to 15khz converter (Extron Emotia et al).

That equipment is required, not just a simple cable.

Kind of wondering how this will look compared to just plugging into a simple VGA CRT, but with the BVM you're good to go for real RGB devices too.

Maybe I'm getting myself confused. Can the Sony BVM output to 15khz? Or is it the same as a regular TV (31khz only )?

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, I should be able to explain simply enough (third try is the charm)!

Your BVM accepts 15KHz horizontal sync only. We talk about horizontal sync and we talk about resolutions; they are tied together. 480i is 15KHz. 480p is 31KHz. The important part is support of the resolution you're using, but horizontal sync usually seems to be a good shorthand. Your BVM should plug up with RGBs, with four plugs for each color of RGB and sync. That's the same as classic CRT TVs, though they use different video formats and connectors to get there (almost always with less quality, by the way). Same sync, same resolution, but not plug'n'play. 31KHz horizontal sync has always been rare on TVs, and usually in a slightly different format anyway. The move to HDMI has more or less sidestepped the discussion entirely for people who jumped from an old 480i analog TV straight to a flat panel. 31KHz support, or 480p and up, is mostly found on PC monitors. There are later "multiformat" PVMs and BVMs (and other devices entirely) which support multiple format inputs, but if you have written the model number correctly, you don't have one.

Your BVM's sync is combined - meaning that along with the 15KHz horizontal sync pulse we've been talking about, the same cable will carry the vertical sync pulse. This is totally transparent - even invisible - for you, with this monitor, except for the fact that you need to get a PC's signal to your BVM. RGB output from a typical PC does this differently, carrying the sync pulses on separate wires. With the BVM, your challenge is making sure that the separate syncs are combined and that your BVM will see it correctly.

The Ultimarc FAQ talks about this: http://www.ultimarc.com/monfaq.html in the section "Connecting an arcade monitor to a VGA card."

Actually the main issue here will likely be the signal voltage. RGB might just look too dim on the BVM.

If you're interested, in excruciating, but hopefully concise, detail: These "15KHz" and "31KHz" terms flying around are related to resolution. 15KHz denotes the horizontal sync resolution supported by a monitor or television that displays the 480i format. Higher resolutions require higher resolution horizontal sync - and vertical sync has to be appropriate as well, but this is usually safe to ignore. 24KHz appears starting in the 1980s for some arcade games and home computers, and 31KHz is common starting from the 1990s and supports lots of resolutions including 480p on a TV, or VESA 640x480@60 frames per second for a PC monitor (but not necessarily both - it is down to the specific monitor and its inputs). In some cases, monitors support multiple formats or multiple horizontal sync frequencies - or even a huge range, like true multisync arcade monitors - but whether any television or monitor supports something specifically is a matter of its design. If you research a monitor and find it supports "31KHz-105KHz" horizontal frequency, it is related to the monitor also supporting much higher resolutions (which will be specified separately). But you also need to find out what kind of formats and physical inputs it accepts: Does it support VGA over a PC monitor-style 15-pin plug? Or does it use BNC inputs? And does it use one or two plugs for sync?

Some more Q&A on your model monitor is here:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44428

Incidentally some of that isn't up-to-date - don't rely on PVMs or BVMs having low hours, as I found out

[Fudoh]

I haven't an ArcadeVGA card myself, but I'm pretty sure it does still output RGBHV, even with 15 khz mode running.

In other words, you still need a sync combiner. Some people successfully used a T-connector to just get H+V sync to the CSYNC pin. Another solution is to get a custom cable with a passive combiner circuit included already. Or you use an active sync interface.

[Ed Oscuro]

^ In other words, you're going to find the RGB and Sync inputs on the BVM, and you just plug together the horizontal and vertical syncs into one wire for that sync BNC plug on the BVM. If that doesn't work, you still need a device or special cable of some kind.

Dragging it out more than usual because the last question had some misstatements in it that were important to clear up

[SeanAndSuch]

^ In other words, you're going to find the RGB and Sync inputs on the BVM, and you just plug together the horizontal and vertical syncs into one wire for that sync BNC plug on the BVM. If that doesn't work, you still need a device or special cable of some kind.

Dragging it out more than usual because the last question had some misstatements in it that were important to clear up

Thanks guys. I appreciate the info.
I wound up ordering a Arcadeforge UMSA along with a male/male SCART cable.
Hopefully I get decent results. Lot of work just to play mame on the bvm.

[Ed Oscuro]

Updated my post for the final time, I hope:

The important new information is that the ArcadeVGA's RGB signal voltage is 1 volt, instead of 5V. If the BVM expects 5V the screen will be too dim.

[Fudoh]

it doesn't. It's fine.

[Ed Oscuro]

Huzzah! Thanks for clearing that up so quick.

[CPC6128]

Some people successfully used a T-connector to just get H+V sync to the CSYNC pin.

Is there a risk for BVM?
Why works on some BVM and not on others?
Do you know the reason?

[Fudoh]

It's not a risk, but you end up with a non standard sync level (in terms of voltage). Using a combiner circuit or even an active combiner is just cleaner.

[CPC6128]

Ok, thank.

Would you have references or schematics of combiner circuit and active combiner to give me please?

I found Extron SC 210.

When you say "clean", you mean that the image will be cleaner, fewer parasites for example?

[BubbaMc]

you need

a) an ArcadeVGA card for 15khz output or
b) a graphics card compatible with soft15khz plus the matching sync adapter or
c) an external 31khz to 15khz converter (Extron Emotia et al).

Another option:

d) a supported Radeon graphics card, along with the CRT Emudriver courtesy of Calamity

http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/v ... hp?pid=379

I've found that tying the horizontal and vertical sync signals together with a BNC T connector works for quite a few Radeon cards.

[CPC6128]

Thanks

[Classicgamer]

I've found that tying the horizontal and vertical sync signals together with a BNC T connector works for quite a few Radeon cards.[/quote]

I have an Arcade vga 5000 and I didn't have much luck twisting the h and v sync wires together. The image came out with lots of interference. I got better results using an Extron RGB interface which I purchased for less than $10 off ebay. Any one with a DDSP dip switch can convert RGBHV to either RGBS or RGB with sync on green.

You will want buy an RGBHV or RGBS BNC male cable which will go from the RGB interface to the monitor (if it is a US BVM). I am not sure if the European BVM has a Scart input instead of BNC but either way it will need to be RGBS. You can buy BNC to scart cable easily if that is what you need.

It is arcade monitors that need a higher voltage RGB output normally because that is what is put out buy most jamma PCBs. To avoid getting a dull image on those monitors, ultimarc sells a VGA signal booster. A number of arcade monitors work fine with 1 volt signals as well. The BVM will definitely work fine with a 1 volt RGB signal. Most recent versions of mame have brightness and contrast settings to allow you to compensate if you get a dull image. I have an arcade monitor and a broadcast monitor and I have never needed them.

Make sure you set mame to direct draw and turn on "switch resolutions to fit". Plus turn off hardware scaling.

B

[CPC6128]

I possess Extron RGB 192V, I think that it will do very well for bind synchros and amplify the signal. Maybe do you same thing?
If yes, how you configure?

The European BVM does not possess scart, it’s exactly even that the US models, the only difference, they are the types of phosphors, EBU for EU and JAPAN, SMPTE C for US.

I prefer to limit at the most the connections, as Scart to scart to BNC, it created parasites and weakened the signal..
I advice to put ferrites bead at extremities, it eliminates noise.

I plan to use a PC just for MAME with Arcade vga 5000, what configuration and what OS do you recommend me?

Thank you for the advice