N64 RGB Video Mod woes

[ociplaC]

Hello! I've been lurking this subforum for a few months, learning a TON about CRT displays, capture cards, and RGB equipment for retro gaming.

I decided to upgrade my gaming setup over Winter Break. I bought:
- XCAPTURE-1 for recording/streaming
- RGB Cables for Sega CD/N64 (already have Component for PS2/Wii)
- RetroRGB Amp Mod for N64
- SCART to YUV Converter (to use on CRTs w/component ports, don't have Sony PVM yet)


The problem I'm having is with my N64, specifically the RetroRGB Amp.
I read that the N64 doesn't have native RGB video capability, but that certain early models can be modded for RGB output. Fortunately mine was one of those models, so I decided to get the mod and have it installed it to the bottom of the motherboard, using the instructions on RetroRGB's website.


The first time got it installed, something looked wrong with the video. It had an overall yellow tint to it. Blues wouldn't show up very well, or would appear to be black (sorry for the image quality, I took them with my iPhone):



I tried multiple displays, and even tried the original crappy composite cable to see if the problem was my RGB cable, SCART YUV box, or male-to-male component cable hooked up to the TV. The same color problems showed up regardless.


This made me think that the soldering/connection on the blue video wire is faulty. So today I decided to open up the N64 again and get each wire redone. This is how it looked, before I closed the N64 back up for today's testing:



Either I messed up really badly, or something is fundamentally wrong, because this is what it looks like now:


Obviously, everything looks REALLY green, in a monochromatic way. I would guess that something is wrong with the Red and Blue connections now.

Now that I've made this really long post, here's my questions for you guys:

Have anyone else ever had similar problems? If so, what did you do to fix it?
And if you know specifically what I'm doing wrong, based on the limited info I've provided, please tell me. I'd be very grateful for your help

[CkRtech]

It looks like maybe you grounded out the blue in the first few pictures and then blue and red after your attempted fix. If your tapping points are prior to the encoder (at the inputs), you would see the same problem in your composite cable because only green would be encoded.

Can we see your solder work? Do you have a multimeter? Can you make sure you aren't getting continuity between either of your color signals (blue or red) and ground?

[Josh128]

I had a VERY similar problem with my first attempt showing a monochromatic-yellowish picture, otherwise clear and clean.

After pulling my hair out checking all the wiring, going from a topside solder on the VDC-NUS chip to a bottom side, checking resistors, , I found the culprit:

I ordered one of those pre-soldered THS7314 chips from Ebay. As I was fiddling around while having it hooked up, I happened to PRESS DOWN on the top of the chip-- the screen got perfectly clear.

Turns out one or more of the legs on the chip had a cold solder joint/was not making a good connection. Re-flowed all of the solder joints and it fixed it, like magic. Check it, I have a good feeling that might be it.

[RGB0b]

The first time got it installed, something looked wrong with the video. It had an overall yellow tint to it. Blues wouldn't show up very well, or would appear to be black

I'm really sorry to hear you're having trouble. The first issue sounds like a connection problem with the blue line. Also, the only time I've seen the green tint is when people ran the RGB wires through the motherboard holes...but the ends of the wires were a hair too long and they stuck through to the other side, touching things on the top of the motherboard. If you still see the green tint problem with a composite video cable, the issue is definitely related to the installation. If you remove the mod and still see the green tint, the N64 itself might be damaged. If you remove the mod and everything looks fine via composite, you should be able to re-install it...and if there's still an issue, I'll send you a new amp to try.

Also, for the first shots, depending on how bad the colors were off, it's possible the issue could have been the SCART to YUV converter. I ordered a clone of the CSY-2100 and the colors were way off. I had to open the case and tweak the POT's on the inside, before the colors looked right. That doesn't sound like your issue, but I wanted to mention it just in case:

I ordered one of those pre-soldered THS7314 chips from Ebay. As I was fiddling around while having it hooked up, I happened to PRESS DOWN on the top of the chip-- the screen got perfectly clear.

Turns out one or more of the legs on the chip had a cold solder joint/was not making a good connection. Re-flowed all of the solder joints and it fixed it, like magic. Check it, I have a good feeling that might be it.

Was this a chip you got from me? I get mine made by a professional board house; they are not "hand made" by me. If there was a cold solder joint, that would literally be the first one I've heard of that had a problem...and I'll glady refund your money for it. Good job figuring out the issue though!

[Josh128]

I ordered one of those pre-soldered THS7314 chips from Ebay. As I was fiddling around while having it hooked up, I happened to PRESS DOWN on the top of the chip-- the screen got perfectly clear.

Turns out one or more of the legs on the chip had a cold solder joint/was not making a good connection. Re-flowed all of the solder joints and it fixed it, like magic. Check it, I have a good feeling that might be it.

Was this a chip you got from me? I get mine made by a professional board house; they are not "hand made" by me. If there was a cold solder joint, that would literally be the first one I've heard of that had a problem...and I'll glady refund your money for it. Good job figuring out the issue though!

I dont think so, it was a guy in Alabama I think-- first problem was that he sent me 75K ohm resistors instead of 75 ohm! I found that before I fixed the issue with the bad solder joints on the board. My N64 install was snakebitten from the start, but the guy was helpful and sent me the proper resistors and a second amp on a board to test.

[ociplaC]

Thanks for the replies! I'm glad that I picked the right forum to explain my problems to (but at the same time I'm sad that I'm having these problems )

It looks like maybe you grounded out the blue in the first few pictures and then blue and red after your attempted fix. If your tapping points are prior to the encoder (at the inputs), you would see the same problem in your composite cable because only green would be encoded.

Can we see your solder work? Do you have a multimeter? Can you make sure you aren't getting continuity between either of your color signals (blue or red) and ground?

I probably should've taken pictures before the tape was put on, sorry...

Unfortunately, as you might be able to tell, I don't have much experience with mod projects like these. I didn't have the foresight to check the connections with a multimeter, that might be a smart idea. I am however afraid of shocking myself or doing something wrong; I don't have to do "live" testing while the N64 is disassembled and plugged in, right? I've seen people who tweak things while the console's still plugged in, and that worries me a little.

I had a VERY similar problem with my first attempt showing a monochromatic-yellowish picture, otherwise clear and clean.

After pulling my hair out checking all the wiring, going from a topside solder on the VDC-NUS chip to a bottom side, checking resistors, , I found the culprit:

I ordered one of those pre-soldered THS7314 chips from Ebay. As I was fiddling around while having it hooked up, I happened to PRESS DOWN on the top of the chip-- the screen got perfectly clear.

Turns out one or more of the legs on the chip had a cold solder joint/was not making a good connection. Re-flowed all of the solder joints and it fixed it, like magic. Check it, I have a good feeling that might be it.

The Amp I ordered was specifically a RetroRGB Amp, provided in a link on RetroRGB's website, not from an ebay seller. That's cool that you figured out a similar problem though.

I'm really sorry to hear you're having trouble. The first issue sounds like a connection problem with the blue line. Also, the only time I've seen the green tint is when people ran the RGB wires through the motherboard holes...but the ends of the wires were a hair too long and they stuck through to the other side, touching things on the top of the motherboard. If you still see the green tint problem with a composite video cable, the issue is definitely related to the installation. If you remove the mod and still see the green tint, the N64 itself might be damaged. If you remove the mod and everything looks fine via composite, you should be able to re-install it...and if there's still an issue, I'll send you a new amp to try.

Also, for the first shots, depending on how bad the colors were off, it's possible the issue could have been the SCART to YUV converter. I ordered a clone of the CSY-2100 and the colors were way off. I had to open the case and tweak the POT's on the inside, before the colors looked right. That doesn't sound like your issue, but I wanted to mention it just in case:
(Image)

Yeah, I was thinking about trying the other method of installation instead, with the wires wrapped around the board, instead of trying to consolidate them to one side. Also thanks for the suggestion, I will have the mod removed and then test the composite cable to make sure nothing's damaged, before trying the other installation method.

As for the SCART YUV clone issue, mine isn't the CSY-2100 (I don't know the other model off the top of my head). I've tested it out with my Sega CDX before, which outputs Native RGB, and blue seemed fine to me when I played Ecco the Dolphin, a very blue game. I have heard that pot adjustments can do color corrections if there's a problem, but that might be another issue I'll have to post about in another thread.

[ociplaC]

Also sorry for the double post, but this is an important issue that deserves its own post and kind of alarms me:

Edit Disregard, I'm not smart: I decided to dink around in Super Smash Bros. 64, just for giggles (the green filter is kind of hilarious). But at certain times, it seemed like the inside of the console would make a weird noise and vibrate for a tenth of a second or so. I tried finding out when this would happen to isolate possible issues. It seemed to happen when quick flashes of white, or certain graphical effects happened on screen (both players die off of the bottom of the screen at the same time, Captain Falcon hits a Falcon Punch, Link does an Up-B Sword Spin, etc.).

This worries me and makes me think that it's damaging the console if I keep this up, so I turned it off. What would be the cause of this console vibration happening? I'm thinking about removing the mod and testing out the original composite cable, to see if the green tint goes away, and this noise stops happening.


Edit: I'm a huge dummy, please disregard this post. Turns out that the console wasn't vibrating, but rather the SCART Audio Breakout Adapter connected to my SCART YUV box was the source of the problem. It was placed adjacent to the N64, making me think that the console was doing the vibrating. I tried the box without the audio breakout and no vibrations whatsoever.

[RGB0b]

This worries me and makes me think that it's damaging the console if I keep this up, so I turned it off. What would be the cause of this console vibration happening? I'm thinking about removing the mod and testing out the original composite cable, to see if the green tint goes away, and this noise stops happening.

I won't have time for a full response till later, but DEFINITELY remove the mod, including the RGB wires right away. Then test again without it.

[Josh128]

To the OP, did you make any progress??

[mvsfan]

can i see the mod without the tape on it?

oh and retrorgb - youve got two arrows by the pots that adjust the color.

WTF do the other 4 pots do? ive had one of those converters for a few years and those 4 pots dont seem to do anything.

[ociplaC]

To the OP, did you make any progress??

I'm currently going to university right now. All my tools are at home, not at my dorm, and so unfortunately I'm only able to work on it over weekends. I will be working on it immediately after I get home this weekend though, and update you all on the progress.

And yes, next time, I'll post a picture of the soldering without the tape covering it. I should've had the foresight to do it before. Honestly, this is my first DIY console mod, so I'm having a difficult time right now.

[RGB0b]

I dont think so, it was a guy in Alabama I think

Well, I'm sorry you had trouble, but I'm relieved it didn't come from me. The board shop I used was the same one a former company I worked for used when we needed to make components for high-end medical equipment. We ordered thousands of parts from them and not one was defective.

I'm currently going to university right now. All my tools are at home, not at my dorm, and so unfortunately I'm only able to work on it over weekends. I will be working on it immediately after I get home this weekend though, and update you all on the progress.

And yes, next time, I'll post a picture of the soldering without the tape covering it. I should've had the foresight to do it before. Honestly, this is my first DIY console mod, so I'm having a difficult time right now.

Just be patient, remove the mod and go from there. I'll try my best to help and I'm sure others on the forum will offer advice as well.

[ociplaC]

I'm going to get straight to the point: FAILURE. Sorry guys, you REALLY aren't going to like reading this. Details below...


I went back home for the weekend, as previously stated, and today we tried to redo the RGB Mod.
For reference, I took a picture of the solder job from last time, before removing it today (sorry for the bad focus, took the pics with my phone again):


When we used the multimeter, we were getting continuity when we weren't supposed to. This made us think that we unintentionally soldered two of the points too close to each other...this wasn't the main problem, as I found out later on.


Then we tried to desolder the RGB Amp from the motherboard...apparently it was soldered on too securely, and we couldn't remove it in order to test out the N64 w/o the mod, like you guys suggested previously. I'm really sorry about this...I should've taken this as a sign of bad things to come.


The next sign that things were going wrong was when we tried the other installation method, i.e. soldering directly to the VDC-NUS A chip. The soldering iron and the solder were too large, apparently, because we couldn't do it cleanly and get only the specific pins that were necessary. We ended up removing the solder and having to revert back to the first installation method we tried.


This time, after the soldering stage, we tested each contact with the multimeter, and got the continuity readings we expected. Here's pictures of the solderwork before I reassembled and closed up the N64 for testing:




Finally, after reassembling and closing up the N64, taking it upstairs, plugging in the RGB Scart Cable to the SCART-YUV Box, connecting the male-male component cable b/w the box and the TV, turning on the TV, and flipping the power switch on the N64...

Same problem as last time! (Kirby's expression was pretty much my reaction)


The only remaining problem I can think of is what CkRtech suggested in his first post: the red and blue pins are grounded out or shorted. AKA: we screwed up the N64 itself. If we were able to remove the mod (which might take a while), we would be able to confirm that we shorted out red/blue, but for now I'm 90% certain that this is the problem.


(What a weekend. First, an ebay seller had to cancel my winning bid for a Sony PVM-14L5 because they underestimated the advertised shipping cost by $150 (originally listed as $50), and now I go and screw up my N64. Sigh.)


Anyway, sorry to disappoint you guys with a sad ending, but thank you all for the suggestions and advice. If there's something I could do next time to avoid something like this happening again, please let me know.

[mickcris]

if you suspect the the red and blue pins are grounded or shorted together, you can test it with the multimeter with the mod still installed.

also, if you could take take a close up picture of just the rgb board that may help to see if something is shorted.

[CkRtech]

Hey ocipaC. Sorry about your troubles.

That is a lot of solder you are using, there.

I would probably try again (fun times), and do the following:
1: Use the RetroRGB solder points near those resistors for your mod - as you originally planned.
2: Desolder the wires from that point and use some high percentage alcohol to clean up that flux mess (brown crud) from the area you vias you used to solder the wires.
3: Either desolder the amp board or at least desolder your RGB wires going to the board. Clean the flux from the solder points that connect the multiout to the amp board.
4: With those wires removed, boot the N64 with composite/S-Video output and check to make sure it is "back to stock" and has color. If it isn't, you are probably grounding the colors. Check for excess solder at all of the soldering points you hit - the vias underneath, the encoder, and the multiout pins.

Try it again:
1: Shorten the leads of your wires. They don't need to have to much extra length to them. Short as possible, ideally.*
2: Tin the wires and the vias (don't sit on the vias too long with your iron).
3: Solder the wires back to the vias. Try not to let any wire (or a very minimal amount) actually go through the board.
4: Resolder the amp board to the pins if you removed it.
5: Connect the wires to the appropriate RGB areas of the amp board. Again - short leads (although not as big of a deal here). Tin the pads, tin the wires, use less solder.

* Forgive me if you mentioned it already, but what iron are you using? What is the tip like? You might have problems soldering short wire leads if your iron tip feels "unwieldy."

Check out retroRGB's solder usage here:



Good luck.

[mvsfan]

I think its worth mentioning that on retrorgbs wiring, the insulation on the wires goes right up to the vias. its almost touching them. If you wire it like that theres almost no chance of it shorting out on something.

[Glossectomy]

As has been said youre definitely shorting out red and blue. Trim both ends of your wires to a very small amount of exposed wire. You can either solder to the vias like they currently are, or flip it over and pull color off the encoder chip.

Ive done 100's of these and always pull from the vias, but you may have more luck with the encoder chip.

I would also suggest some kynar wire from radio shack instead of whatever youre using here.

[mvsfan]

also, Jason from gametech mentioned in one of his videos that the retrorgb board has some traces running on the bottom of the board. He felt that was unnessecary and could cause a short against the motherboard if you solder the board down too close. He made a redesigned board with NO traces on the bottom for that reason.

you should probably pull the board off and check it, mabeye tape the bottom of it before you solder it back down.

also you could get a multimeter and do continuity checks to see if anything is shorted that shouldnt be.

[RGB0b]

also, Jason from gametech mentioned in one of his videos that the retrorgb board has some traces running on the bottom of the board. He felt that was unnessecary and could cause a short against the motherboard if you solder the board down too close.

Well, the traces on the bottom aren't exposed, so even if you test them with a multimeter, you won't find a connection. That being said, yes, check to make sure the amp isn't touching the motherboard, just in case.

Also, thanks to everyone else who's posting and helping out with this.

[Glossectomy]

Last resort, if you can't get it working I'll gladly fix it for free as long as you pay return shipping.